10' Tables Future Of Pro Pool??

Dave_C

Registered
The thing for me is that the 10 foot table makes it much more challenging, and that's the way it SHOULD be when you reach the level of "professional" in ANY sport. Take golf for example. There is a reason the cups are cut in extremely difficult parts of the greens at Augusta. It's because these are pro's playing out there, not the average hack trying to drop his handicap a stroke or two. Same thing here.

I see 10 footers as a genuine opportunity for pool to graduate to the next level and have a bit of a resurgence if you will. I can't remember the last time I was so entertained at WATCHING a pool match a's opposed to playing in it. The Earl Shane match was epic and everyone who tuned in knew it, antics be-damned.

I for one for dearly love to play in a tournament on 10 footers. Loved snooker growing up, and would have a helluva time on a 10 foot pool table I can assure you :)

I just hope Diamond was watching that match very closely.
 

maidenfreak

Maidenfreak2009
Silver Member
My unsolicited two cents..
I completely agree that we will never see the 10x5 become a staple in professional billiards at least in our lifetimes. As everyone saw the table was monster enough to put Shane on tilt. I am however a firm believer that if you are a professional you can shoot on any table as a professional. You adjust your game accordingly and shoot your game. In this situation it was easy to see after day one if you got out of line it was time to play safe. The table was just that unforgiving.

And in the same breath I absolutely see a place for the 10x5. Action. TAR matches. Dippy getting the 7 out, breaks and ball in hand after. That was one of the most entertaining matches I have seen in a long time. I was hypnotized by this 50 year old man wielding what can be described as a medieval lance around this monster table playing with amazing accuracy and control. If I were him I would pitch a tent next to that table and live there waiting for the next challenger.

Lastly I would respectfully disagree with Zbotiman on one point. The "common man" did not know there was a TAR match over the weekend. He has never seen or heard of a 10x5. He does not have the skill set to know when or how to play safe when appropriate. He is a league player who plays on a bar box in a local bar for fun, and a chance to maybe get to a regional tournament. IMHO only the top 5% of billiard enthusiasts are the folks who think this kind of match and setup is interesting and fun and are willing to pay to see it. They are also the folks who travel to the shows and tournaments to support our sport.

Anywho awesome thread guys! This match has caused a lot of buzz and hopefully it catches on. As always thank you for reading my unsolicited banter. :grin:
 

JAW725

Southpaw
Silver Member
All the time I see bangers that really enjoy the game then lose interest and become discouraged when they actually play and get torn by a B player - all this on bar boxes may I add! LOL Now introduce them to 10 footers :cool: With no outside interest and further alienating good amateur bar box players, watch pool fade to black :(
 

JAW725

Southpaw
Silver Member
.......Well, here goes, 10 footers, the future?
Let me digress; I was just at "The Masters, 10 ball" and on the last 2 days of the Tournament, an Amateur event, was scheduled to coincide with the Pro 10-ball event. With the worlds elite Ball movers in the very next room, not 40ft. away, it looked to me like, not one amateurs from the adjoining room even came over to watch the worlds absolute best, PLAY!

10 footers, really? I played on a converted 10 ft. Gold Crown snooker table growing up (much like the table used in this challenge match) and I can say from experience, "the game you play on that surface is a safety orientated, challenge, very different methods for winning, apply!
The "common man" in pool, isn't going to find these types of conditions, FUN AT ALL! And with-out some pretty adept pool knowledge, the game isn't going to be very interesting to watch, either!

After all, 10 footers didn't even make it through the 40's! I don't think you'll be seeing them in your local Billiard establishment any time SOON!:speechless:

Good post! I'm not sure how that Earl & Shane match all went down but I heard from a few friends that on the first day there were barely any consecutive runouts, maybe two or three? Yeah, bring on those televised events :rolleyes:
 

jalapus logan

pool shooter
Silver Member
How about the future of pool to be played on 4 X 8' tables? That's what Mosconi ran his exhibition 500 + run on, a feat still remembered and revered to this day.

Or, if that is too easy for many here to tolerate, how about any rotation based game to be played on this table:



Look, pool is plenty hard played on 9' tables. Given the previously cited statistics in this thread that shows that pros recently had a break and run % of 19, is this too easy? What % of the time have the pros ran 2 or more consecutive racks of 10 ball? Not too many. I was at the DCC and did not see anyone put more than a couple of racks together.

If everyone wants to switch to a 10' table or make any attempt at making the game "harder", they had better be prepared to shorten the tourney races up substantially, or be willing to host tourneys that last for a month at a time or more. And they must be willing to lose paying spectators and therefore there own $.

This was a great and interesting event, but it hardly makes me want to redefine the nature of the game and/or playing surface. All just IMO.
 

ArizonaBill

Registered
When there is no money in a sport at the highest levels, you have to try something different. Pool rooms can keep their 9 foot tables, but bring in 1 ten footer for those up for the challenge. Snooker is very popular in England with much higher prize money because it's harder . Mosconi said that playing on the smaller 9 foot tables took away the excellence of the game. The top golfers don't play from the lady's tees. Prize money hasn't increased much since the 1970's. Lets find out who the best is now.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well, someone bumped this 10 year old thread.

JohnnyT, the OP, died unfortunately a couple years back.

10' tables died as well, fortunately, IMO. Is Diamond even making them anymore? I wonder if there was more than 20 of them ever made.
 

ArizonaBill

Registered
As far as televised events go, you don't have to show the boring frames. If a match takes two or three hours, you can edit it down to fit the time slot, leave in a few key misses to build the drama so it's not just one run-out after another. Suspense helps any sporting event.
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
As far as televised events go, you don't have to show the boring frames. If a match takes two or three hours, you can edit it down to fit the time slot, leave in a few key misses to build the drama so it's not just one run-out after another. Suspense helps any sporting event.

Short Form editing is great

Here's an example: https://youtu.be/EorTlVIk5pI

Just the action, extend where needed and cut racks that suck
 

Charlie Hustle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As far as televised events go, you don't have to show the boring frames. If a match takes two or three hours, you can edit it down to fit the time slot, leave in a few key misses to build the drama so it's not just one run-out after another. Suspense helps any sporting event.

This 100%. The problem with people who don't play pool, is they will never sit and watch a 2 hour race to 11 on tv. Now if you condense it down to 30 mins or so with the highlights and the key misses, it MIGHT have a better shot of being successful on TV.
 

Geosnooker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
American billiards is a bit quirky because there’s no differentiation between the pro game and those who just play for fun. We approach the sport as if the end goal for everyone is to win some non existent greater world championship.

What percent of viewers play NFL rules football.....001 of 1%? MLB baseball? About the same? Likely most participants are playing slowpitch with shorter infield on a school diamond.

The two most viewed sports in the world are Soccer and Cricket. Neither have large adult participation. The most viewed billiards Sport is Snooker...again, what percent of the 80 million world viewers actually play?

Anyways, American billiards is stuck in rut at the pro level. It isn’t going anywhere without a major shake up. That’s fine as has No impact on me playing at the local pool hall or Legion with 9 foot tables and 4.75 inch basketball hoops.

Until American pro pool differentiates itself from the bar game, it’s not going anywhere. Millions aren’t going to watch the best baseball players playing Slowpitch or best football players playing no tackle flag football. Most pro sports have added elements of skill that make it an extra challenge. 10 foot tables? 4” pockets?...something is needed make it ‘special’.
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
American billiards is a bit quirky because there’s no differentiation between the pro game and those who just play for fun. We approach the sport as if the end goal for everyone is to win some non existent greater world championship.

Amateurs don't play on 4 1/2 inch pockets the way the pros do, and only the more accomplished amateurs ever play on anything but bar tables. Most of the major amateur events are contested on bar tables. The argument that 9 foot tables don't challenge the world's best is nonsense of the highest order. Yeah, they do, and only the top few ever manage to snap off a significant title. I don't mind tightening the pockets a little more, as long as the races are shortened. The pro game is already too slow.

The ten foot table is a dinosaur, reintroduced as a novelty, and as a novelty, it makes for enjoyable viewing, but there's no need for it.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As far as televised events go, you don't have to show the boring frames. If a match takes two or three hours, you can edit it down to fit the time slot, leave in a few key misses to build the drama so it's not just one run-out after another. Suspense helps any sporting event.

You could simply have a match clock. 1 hr is plenty of time for the usual comedy of errors.
 

cjl0s

Registered
Ten foot pool tables are not much harder than nine footers. Any notion otherwise in my opinion is a myth. The long shots are a little. longer but there is less traffic.

There is basically zero interest in 5x10 tables in pool halls and for sure home tables. I have one that was installed in my basement for 20 years. I tried 2 times and couldn't even sell it for $250 LOL. It sits in my crawl space broken down. A 5x10 snooker table sits in it's place and that *is* harder due to the rounded pockets. I doubt it will make me a better pool player because it honestly changes my shot selection. But I bought it to play snooker so it doesn't matter to me.

As it may be a while before pool halls open again, pleasing myself is all that matters!
 
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Charlie Hustle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
American billiards is a bit quirky because there’s no differentiation between the pro game and those who just play for fun. We approach the sport as if the end goal for everyone is to win some non existent greater world championship.

What percent of viewers play NFL rules football.....001 of 1%? MLB baseball? About the same? Likely most participants are playing slowpitch with shorter infield on a school diamond.

The two most viewed sports in the world are Soccer and Cricket. Neither have large adult participation. The most viewed billiards Sport is Snooker...again, what percent of the 80 million world viewers actually play?

Anyways, American billiards is stuck in rut at the pro level. It isn’t going anywhere without a major shake up. That’s fine as has No impact on me playing at the local pool hall or Legion with 9 foot tables and 4.75 inch basketball hoops.

Until American pro pool differentiates itself from the bar game, it’s not going anywhere. Millions aren’t going to watch the best baseball players playing Slowpitch or best football players playing no tackle flag football. Most pro sports have added elements of skill that make it an extra challenge. 10 foot tables? 4” pockets?...something is needed make it ‘special’.


Please don't take this with any disrespect, but it seems that almost every time I see one of your post, you bring up snooker. We get it, you like snooker and all that goes along with it, but every single post doesn't have to include snooker. :wink:
 

westcoast

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Amateurs don't play on 4 1/2 inch pockets the way the pros do, and only the more accomplished amateurs ever play on anything but bar tables. Most of the major amateur events are contested on bar tables. The argument that 9 foot tables don't challenge the world's best is nonsense of the highest order. Yeah, they do, and only the top few ever manage to snap off a significant title. I don't mind tightening the pockets a little more, as long as the races are shortened. The pro game is already too slow.

The ten foot table is a dinosaur, reintroduced as a novelty, and as a novelty, it makes for enjoyable viewing, but there's no need for it.

I think 9 footers are definitely challenging enough if the pockets are small enough. However, the 10 footer makes it feel like a true athletic event. If you can play well on a 10 footer you are truly world class
 

pw98

Registered
As someone who owns a 10 footer (early 1900s brunswick) I can say that:
1. Even if your are short like me (5'8) like me you eventually get used to placing the cue ball where you can reach it so your height isn't that big of a deal. The fact that the table is a furniture table and has only 4 inch thick rails instead of 6 inch like a normal table probably helps.
2. Even with simonis 860 with less than a year's worth of daily use you have to POUND the ball around the table compared to a 9 foot or smaller. I don't know if this is due to it being humid where my table is but the amount of force needed to pull off the average draw shot or power follow shot is huge compared to a smaller table.

Its worth noting the rails on my table are very fast in the humidity and when hitting a ball from the headspot at the foot rail I can easily hit 6 rails. If i hit harder the ball goes airborn and flies off the table....

I will admit at about 2:00am the table seems to start playing a little easier due to the nightly humidity drop and yes the garage has a dehumidier and air conditioning.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
I've said somewhere else already but American pool needs to adopt the the pro darts atmosphere. Pool is not snooker and the notion that it will ever aspire to be is a fool's errand.

I'd hazard to say that a Wimbledon atmosphere back in the all white era would have never lasted in the USA as well. There's a reason the USopen is more akin to a Nascar crowd in pro tennis.

All a 10ft table would do is create less clutter after the break. Any top player worth their salt already aims for a portion of the pocket on the 9ft.

You want money and/or interest in American Pool. Tell the Nascar fans they can bring in their foam fingers, and beer holding hard hats. Let them cheer for their favourites... The Mosconi Cup is the only time everyone wants to see every ball hit.
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've said somewhere else already but American pool needs to adopt the the pro darts atmosphere. Pool is not snooker and the notion that it will ever aspire to be is a fool's errand.

I'd hazard to say that a Wimbledon atmosphere back in the all white era would have never lasted in the USA as well. There's a reason the USopen is more akin to a Nascar crowd in pro tennis.

All a 10ft table would do is create less clutter after the break. Any top player worth their salt already aims for a portion of the pocket on the 9ft.

You want money and/or interest in American Pool. Tell the Nascar fans they can bring in their foam fingers, and beer holding hard hats. Let them cheer for their favourites... The Mosconi Cup is the only time everyone wants to see every ball hit.

I've always thought this (tbh I think snooker should too, to some extent, if there was background noise all the time it wouldn't be offputting, unlike silence and then someone making a noise on the shot), after all there's generally noise in clubs where people practice!

It doesn't have to be quite as rowdy as the darts, but just let people talk, cheer etc (within reason), if you do that people naturally quieten down as they sense tension and it creates more atmosphere for TV.

All that should increase the appeal to casual viewers, which has to be a good thing.
 
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