Please no, do not ruin this beautiful game with your version of "fairness".
Unfortunately this is the direction we rapidly heading in.
14.1 not fair both players should be given a chance to run balls
- Thread starter naji
- Start date
Please no, do not ruin this beautiful game with your version of "fairness".
Unfortunately this is the direction we rapidly heading in.
Rules must change! like billiard, you set a well standard break shot and each player attempt the run. If player say ran 30 and stopped, second player continue from where 1st player left off, if second player got to 100 or 150 before the other player wins. If 1st player ran 100 or 150 and out, the second player attempt it..Just like Billiard, you set the balls, and who wins the toss starts.
There was -- Warren Kiamco a good example. And the alternate break in short-rack rotation games has nothing to do, nor any applicability with, 14.1 at all.
-Sean <-- "Hodor!"
i mean Pionys flying from their home land!
Rules must change! like billiard, you set a well standard break shot and each player attempt the run. If player say ran 30 and stopped, second player continue from where 1st player left off, if second player got to 100 or 150 before the other player wins. If 1st player ran 100 or 150 and out, the second player attempt it..Just like Billiard, you set the balls, and who wins the toss starts.
Change format, not rules
They won't (and shouldn't) change the rules, but I'd like to see the format altered. Watching this tournament the last few years has felt like watching good 9 ball players play in races to 5, with a championship race to 7. All these players routinely run a hundred balls in practice seasons. When I've seen people gamble on 14.1, the race is always to 300 or more. I'd really enjoy a 200/250/300 format, but at this point I'm just happy they play the tournament at all, and that they get such a world-class field.
They won't (and shouldn't) change the rules, but I'd like to see the format altered. Watching this tournament the last few years has felt like watching good 9 ball players play in races to 5, with a championship race to 7. All these players routinely run a hundred balls in practice seasons. When I've seen people gamble on 14.1, the race is always to 300 or more. I'd really enjoy a 200/250/300 format, but at this point I'm just happy they play the tournament at all, and that they get such a world-class field.
That technique is implemented in handicapping. It's called "30-and-stop," where the better player runs up to 30 balls, and is forced to turn the table over to his [weaker] opponent. I've offered this handicap before, and won with it. And I've lost with it, too, when I didn't match-up correctly. But again, that's a gambling technique, not a tournament format.
That's not the point with a world-class tournament like this. You eat what you harvest. If you make a bad lag and match-opening breakshot, you eat that harvest.
It's not about fairness. It's about exploitation of opportunities, and who takes better advantage of them. If you offer an opportunity for your opponent to run 150-and-out on you, then it's all on you for doing so.
-Hodor
Dear Naji, although I respect your perspective on 14.1, your new rule would provide for a handicap.
This is also not Bonus Ball, which allows the same opportunity for a chance to "match" an opponent's score.
Allowing a player an opportunity to match a score after another player has won the match in 14.1 is absolutely
ludicrous.
This evokes "second chances" all over again. Why ?
No way.
This thread has Dom_Poppa written all over it.
I have high respect for high runs, no doubt, but again, the other player must be given same chance to show the skill, and fight it, not by player's choice (he feel kind and miss on purpose!, or run the 150 and out)
Exactly. This ain't 9-ball league, with break-and-run patches and participation trophies. In 14.1, you put up, or shut up.
-Sean
You just don't get it! Change the rules and it's not 14.1 anymore. Geez! What's the point of practicing and striving to be the best (or at least be better) if some whiney, crybaby wants to change the rules because he isn't as good as you but thinks he deserves to win? If you don't like the game, don't play it! Go find you a nice, soft, handicapped 9ball tournament somewhere and see if you can get to 3 before the guy who has devoted much of life to the game gets to 11!
Don't take it personal, Naji. I don't even know you and mean no disrespect to you, but your ideas are disrespectful to the game of 14.1.
Why don't you try asking Mike Davis that? Evgeny Stalev ran 151-and-out on him (Evgeny and Mike were both on one foul), and even Mike went to the commentator's booth to root Evgeny on for an even higher run. And Mike was laying on the praise, too. Do you think Mike Davis would want the format changed so he could try and match the feat? I don't think so. Instead, he graciously accepted the loss, and was happy for his opponent.
This whole "fairness" argument stinks of today's politically-correct "everyone gets a trophy" thing.
-Hodor
They are big boys and knew what they were getting into. I just finished reading "Willie's Game" and he has great comments about why 14.1 is such a good, hard game and they all revolve around the fact that if you give your opponent a shot, you may not have another chance.
14.1 is fair. It is also the hardest game to play at the top level because, as Sean pointed out, there's no blast-em-open break shot. A top-tiered player will shoot until he misses and that may not be until after the game is over.
I didn't watch any of the recent tournament but from watching a lot of Accu-stats 14.1, players today don't seem to play a lot of safeties. They shoot at anything and take shots that old-school players (e.g., DiLiberto) would never take... and they MAKE them!
So really, what we should be discussing, is whether 14.1 played on 9' tables is really appropriate for today's shotmakers. Perhaps 14.1 should move back to 10' tables with tighter pockets. Even Willie in his autobiography said that moving from 10' to 9' tables made the game a lot easier.
In any event, the rules are fair, it's a great game, it's the hardest game because you can't afford to make a single mistake, and the rules -- most definitely -- should not be changed.
Naji, 3-Ball is out there waiting for you. ALL players get an equal chance.
We Do Not Need "Outcome-based Pool" , like the experts did to Education.
14.1 is not just about pocketing balls. There is skill in performing a safe opening break or playing safe during the game. If a player is not strong in these skills, he will (and should) lose.
So a pitcher that throws a no-hitter should have to slo-pitch for a while?
The game is not one pocket sorry, it is how many balls you run, give a ball in hand or behind the line for 1st rack only, place an OB in middle of table and have at it, if he ran 150 and out great, second player tries it same way ball in hand and ob in middle. If 1st fail the run, and made few balls, then the game is played normal as usually played.