14.1 Stats -- John Schmidt's Run of 434 on Video, December 2018

jviss said:
Is that really so? Is that "legal" in billiards? I would think not.
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I have heard that a player who visited the NYC area 4-5 years back for a year plus and was in the top 3 there imo was tossed from a tournament and banned from the tour for furtively cleaning the balls mid match with Armorall.

Im a blacksmith so these nuances mean nothing to me. Is using armorall to clean balls in and of itself wrong or was it because one player knew it was there and the other didnt? I don't know.
 
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Nostroke said:
I have heard that a player who visited the NYC area 4-5 years back for a year plus and was in the top 3 there imo was tossed from a tournament and banned from the tour for furtively cleaning the balls mid match with Armorall.

Im a blacksmith so these nuances mean nothing to me. Is using armorall to clean balls in and of itself wrong or was it because one player knew it was there and the other didnt? I don't know.
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Thanks. I would think that applying any substance to a ball would be against the rules, and disqualifying. That he did so furtively indicates he knows it is wrong, or that his competitor would object.

Cleaning by wiping is another thing, and I think during a match one would have to ask the referee for permission, or to do it, with the consent of the competitor.
 
jviss said:
Thanks, Dave, but I think some among us are asserting that the cue ball in question is not relatively new and decent quality. I hope we find out for sure.
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I totally agree that a CB with a bulging dot can most definitely result in top-like gyroscopic precession (and ball turn due to the wedge-like angle of the contact surface), as Bob has suggested.

Regards,
Dave
 
jviss said:
Thanks. I would think that applying any substance to a ball would be against the rules, and disqualifying. That he did so furtively indicates he knows it is wrong, or that his competitor would object.

Cleaning by wiping is another thing, and I think during a match one would have to ask the referee for permission, or to do it, with the consent of the competitor.
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Just to be clear, everyone knew he was cleaning the balls, but thought he was just using a plain towel. When a poolroom cleans the balls, they use some substance on them so that is why i thought it wasn't black and white that he was doing something wrong/illegal.

Bob J-Is the above covered by the rules in any kind of specific way?
 
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jviss said:
Is that really so? Is that "legal" in billiards? I would think not.
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John has been caught doing this several times.
Legal? That's like saying all pool players are honest. Is the table that John is playing on legal? Of course not it is set up for the intention of making high runs at any cost and that the public doesn't find out that he has gone to every angle and extreme to accomplish something.
Key note to know is 526 was not Mosconis high run.Mosconi has 8-10 runs higher than 526. The run of 526 was done on a oversized 8 ft. table during an exhibition with slow cloth and with out any added angles or advantages created like John is doing.
also refer to the high run list and you will see that the highest run on a 9ft table is by Babe Cranfield of 768.
So unless someone runs 769 then its just another great high run.
Arthur Babe Cranfield
768 in practice
Tom Parker
642 as told to Dick Leonard
Michael Eufemia
626

http://hermund.ardalen.com/straightpoolhighruns.htm
 
wrldpro said:
Is the table that John is playing on legal? Of course not it is set up for the intention of making high runs at any cost and that the public doesn't find out that he has gone to every angle and extreme to accomplish something.
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Do you have any evidence to support this accusation?

This is a very serious accusation. Your statements are not an expression of opinion, you state them as if they are a matter of provable fact. This rises to the level of libel, for which John could take legal action against you.

Do you know, in fact, that he has done what you say, in the particular case?
 
jviss said:
Do you have any evidence to support this accusation?

This is a very serious accusation. Your statements are not an expression of opinion, you state them as if they are a matter of provable fact. This rises to the level of libel, for which John could take legal action against you.

Do you know, in fact, that he has done what you say, in the particular case?
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OMG You are very funny.Legal action?. I certainly welcome anything like that.

You are obviously new to any of this as these proven facts that have been around for a very long time. I know of several players he has done this too. I will name only Danny Harriman because is it noted in several threads that Danny has mentioned himself to be made public here on AZ Billiards.

So what do You got to say now?
 
wrldpro said:
OMG You are very funny.Legal action?. I certainly welcome anything like that.

You are obviously new to any of this as these proven facts that have been around for a very long time. I know of several players he has done this too. I will name only Danny Harriman because is it noted in several threads that Danny has mentioned himself to be made public here on AZ Billiards.

So what do You got to say now?
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I may be new here, but I wasn't born yesterday.

You still haven't presented any evidence to support what you've said, only that "these proven facts have been around for a very long time." What "proven facts?"

Basically, nothing.

You said some pretty strong stuff that could harm his reputation, and his livelihood. Back them up!
 
dr_dave said:
I totally agree that a CB with a bulging dot can most definitely result in top-like gyroscopic precession (and ball turn due to the wedge-like angle of the contact surface), as Bob has suggested.

Regards,
Dave
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I probably have 25-30 different pro cup measle cue balls, all of which are true Aramith and not counterfeits, in various states of wear from new to many years old. Just out of curiosity from this thread and from viewing the fateful final shot of that run in which the cue ball strangely curved towards the corner pocket while spinning, I've recently inspected them all and have yet to find a single one in which you could visibly feel any of the dots protruding from the surface. It would be helpful to find out from Aramith as to the process for how they infuse the dots on these measle balls, and if it's at all even possible over usage for a dot to ever protrude from the surrounding surface of the cue ball?
 
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ChrisinNC said:
I probably have 25-30 different pro cup measle cue balls, all of which are true Aramith and not counterfeits, in various states of wear from new to many years old. Just out of curiosity from this thread and from viewing the fateful final shot of that run in which the cue ball strangely curved towards the corner pocket while spinning, I've recently inspected them all and have yet to find a single one in which you could visibly feel any of the dots protruding from the surface. It would be helpful to find out from Aramith as to the process for how they infuse the dots on these measle balls, and if it's at all even possible over usage for a dot to ever protrude from the surrounding surface of the cue ball?
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We can all do without bulging-Belgian-billiard-balls. ;)
 
HawaiianEye said:
Some of your posts make it seem that way?

When were you born and how long have you been playing?

Bobby has been around for quite a while and knows 14.1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2bYgxFsCoo
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This particular discussion has nearly nothing to do with pool at this point; it has to do with people making assertions that besmirch someone's character, essentially calling them a cheater and a liar, without backing it up in any way. That's what I object to.
 
HawaiianEye said:
Some of your posts make it seem that way?

When were you born and how long have you been playing?

Bobby has been around for quite a while and knows 14.1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2bYgxFsCoo
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I have a question about the video. Why is it that he adjusts the position of the cue ball and, in particular, the object ball, the two, I think, before he begins? Is that how this is normally done? I would imagine a record run would have to have started from one's opponent missing or fouling, or if with a break.
 
jviss said:
I have a question about the video. Why is it that he adjusts the position of the cue ball and, in particular, the object ball, the two, I think, before he begins? Is that how this is normally done? I would imagine a record run would have to have started from one's opponent missing or fouling, or if with a break.
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It's pretty common to setup a 14:1 run with a breakshot, at least in my neck of the woods.

How did Willie do it?
 
Growing up in the Midwest, I've played allot on those older 9 footers, and like someone mentioned, they can be pretty soft and accommodating and they also show their age....some of em were played on heavily in the 40's-50's & 60's, and allot of em were worn, from life and people crawling on em, plus some of the slates may not be the same do to the tables age. But 434 still works in my book. He probably got one roll earlier in his run, that made this scratch not seem that bad. :)
 
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No way it's a bulging spot.

If it was bulging enough to cause that radical of a curve, then it would bulge enough to cause the CB to hop, skip, skids or do other strange things on other shots. No way after 400+ balls on this run alone that the axis of the shot and the bulge did not come into play earlier.


I'm certain than upon inspection with a micrometer, the ball will not be perfect as NO ball is. The question is, how much out of round or how much of a small area bulge is necessary to generate that kind of curvature?

I don't doubt that even slight variances can cause stresses when spinning when you look at various mechanical objects in our world where balance is critical. How much is the question. It's really hard to imagine that with all that play, a player like JS would not notice a bulge on the CB. This is something he might be able to see. And certainly feel.



Occam says that the slate is F-ed up in that area. I've seen bad rolls and it's almost always slate.



I hope Bob can get a hold of the CB. If this theory is true, then this effect should be repeatable.

I predict the ball measured will show inconsistency.
I predict it is not enough to explain the effects.
I predict the effect will not be replicated.


If I am wrong on the above, this will create a new series of questions regarding Saluc Aramith and their quality control. The design or manufacturing process for this CB or any ball for that matter. For the kind of money they are charging for these premium ball sets - this should NOT happen. Wear is one thing, this would be blatant defect.


It won't be good to be known as the junk CB brand that ruined what was highly likely chance to break the high run record. He was 92 balls away. The way he plays, the record was probably toast if not for that freak CB behavior.
 
Do you guys think that was really that odd of a shot? Figured he just hit down on the ball a little and caused a masse effect and pulled into the corner pocket. As some have said after 400+ balls, I don't think it was the table or equipment myself.
 
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