15 Ball (Rotation) or 9 and 10 Ball Changes Needed

TheBook said:
Thanks for the history. ...
Don't they use red and yellow ball sets it England for 8 ball?

🎱
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Yes, that's what they use for English 8-ball and/or black ball, as it is sometimes called. In the 1980s for a couple of years it was also what was used for the BCA National Championships.
 
Call shot 10 ball.
Pushout on any shot.
SHOTCLOCK IS A MUST.
SHOTCLOCK IS A MUST.
SHOTCLOCK IS A MUST.
1 more thing, there has to be a SHOTCLOCK.
 
PoolChump said:
Why even consider this?
9 and 10 ball is currently too easy to run.

If not Rotation 15 ball, I believe the pockets should be tighter (4 inch or tighter), the 9 or 10 must be made by banking, use the 3 balls past the string rule on breaks, after the flip or lag (loser breaks).

What are your thoughts?
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if 9-ball and 10-ball are so easy, then why do only a handful of guys win everything?
 
Bob Jewett said:
Well, actually, when 8 ball was introduced by Brunswick around 1925, it was played with reds and yellows and a black and there were no numbers. The 8-ball version that specifies balls in the side pockets is "one and fifteen" and my experience in playing it doesn't lead me to believe that it would be an improvement for the top players.

The problem with 8 ball at the top level as I see it is that there are too many run-outs. The breaker runs out or his opponent runs out from his first shot. 21-ball (ten reds, ten yellows and a black) might be interesting.
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Oh yeah, imagine 8 ball played with a 21 ball set on a 7 foot Diamond. The pro's would not be running out every time. I imagine there would be a lot of safety play.
 
vjmehra said:
That would be horrible to watch!
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I think we don't really know how it would play out. While it's nice to see a player run out, it is more interesting to some to see more back-and-forth strategic play.
 
Good god people, this is pool. One player has an advantage, no matter what, whether it be a skill gap, who's breaking, how the balls lie, table cloth and rail preferences/knowledge/atmospheric differences, condition/make of balls...I'm sure the list could go on but it's just ridiculous when people want to change things that don't affect them in the slightest. What do you want next? Everyone to use the same exact cue?

Everyone wants to level the playing field but yet make it harder? Why is everyone so concerned about who plays what game and how it should be played? If you don't like it, don't watch or play. There are so many variations different games that can be played and that's one of the many beauties of pool.

Why waste your mental capacity on how others should be playing a game they decided to play? Take a step back, and hopefully you'll realize how silly all this talk is.


As the great Happy Gilmore once said,

"Gold jacket, green jacket, who gives a shit."
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think we don't really know how it would play out. While it's nice to see a player run out, it is more interesting to some to see more back-and-forth strategic play.
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Totally agree with this that, thats why snooker works, but on a 7 foot table it's not so much of an attractive proposition!
 
PhilosopherKing said:
What's so great about the safety play in snooker?

2 or 3 rails into the baulk area. Willy-nilly 90 percent of the time. Maybe roll-up on a ball with no rail requirement.
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The fact that it's insanely difficult!

It's not everyone's cup of tea to watch, but it's far from easy!

Different to pool safety of course as the risk of losing the rack as a result of a poor safety in pool is higher, but at top level snooker it's actually similar!
 
Interestingly enough, when continuous pool was first becoming popular, adding more balls to the rack was actually suggested and considered by several pros.
14.1 almost became 20.1
True story.
 
PhilosopherKing said:
What's so great about the safety play in snooker?

2 or 3 rails into the baulk area. Willy-nilly 90 percent of the time. Maybe roll-up on a ball with no rail requirement.
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Its not always as easy as that. Besides, many of the one pocket moves are easy to execute, but not easy to identify. Same with snooker, a lot of players in leagues just send the cue ball back to baulk but end up leaving an easy return for their opponent. A good safety player will tie you up in knots until you are forced to go for a tricky pot with no chance of position.
 
Well....

I only shoot on a bar box about once a month and have my own 9' Rebco table. I think I am for the most part content with the games the way they are. I have enough trouble running a table with generous pockets. I'm not a great player and neither are my pool playing buddies.

I prefer playing call the 9, especially on a bar box, but it ain't a deal breaker for me. I am not a fan of the "double shot". Where you can call the 10 ball and miss, but keep your turn if the lowest called ball goes in.

I do think I would like to see pro 8 and 9 and 10 Ball played on 10' Diamond tables. We live in a time where there are many fantastic shooters playing 8 and 9 and 10 Ball.

Just look at the young age the Asian shooters are when they become world class shooters. They are highly disciplined ball pocketing machines.

Maybe the games are ok for most realistic amateur shooters. Maybe a bigger table would require more skillful play? I have watched many a great winner breaks match on You Tube.

Even with the top tier shooters I don't see many big "packages" being run on a consistent basis. It appears to me a break and run happens more often with the alternate break format, but I can't prove that remark.

I don't spend much time worrying about what the pro's are doing, as they live in a different pool world then me. I think as an amateur player that frees me up to enjoy the game as a hobby, which is what it is for a whole bunch of us.
 
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I think one pocket is the game that needs a serious overhaul. Mostly having to do with the ability of players to take almost absurd levels of intentionals. Start there. An intentional has got to be penalized more.

Rotation games are doing ok I think. I think it would be interesting to change the format of rotation tournaments more than changing the rules themselves. If you think about it the biggest problem with any rotation game is a guy gets a bad roll when it's hill hill or in a huge game. How do we counteract that? I think the best way to think about going forward with tournaments would include smaller fields, all the players playing each other and go by games won for the entire tournament using a running tally. You could then pit the top four game winners against each other at the end, or the top two. I mean there are so many ways to go, but some type of running tally tournaments where how many games you've won stays with you. That's how you get rid of luck in my opinion, not by making people call their pocket. You gotta understand so much of the luck in rotation comes from the break shot alone so if you want to get rid of luck you've gotta figure a way to keep the data with the player beyond just each match.
 
Ekojasiloop said:
I think one pocket is the game that needs a serious overhaul. Mostly having to do with the ability of players to take almost absurd levels of intentionals. Start there. An intentional has got to be penalized more.



Rotation games are doing ok I think. I think it would be interesting to change the format of rotation tournaments more than changing the rules themselves. If you think about it the biggest problem with any rotation game is a guy gets a bad roll when it's hill hill or in a huge game. How do we counteract that? I think the best way to think about going forward with tournaments would include smaller fields, all the players playing each other and go by games won for the entire tournament using a running tally. You could then pit the top four game winners against each other at the end, or the top two. I mean there are so many ways to go, but some type of running tally tournaments where how many games you've won stays with you. That's how you get rid of luck in my opinion, not by making people call their pocket. You gotta understand so much of the luck in rotation comes from the break shot alone so if you want to get rid of luck you've gotta figure a way to keep the data with the player beyond just each match.
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I don't think any games need "overhauling". Play them as they are or find a different sport that suits you instead of trying to change something to suit you.
 
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