So I am to believe every shot was either to pocket a ball or a push out? I don't believe so.
2 foul, roll out
- Thread starter goatgod
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lots of times you pushed out to shot neither could make but now you could hit the ball to a safe spot. then he either had a shot or had to shoot out himself. rarely did it go that far.
most pushed out to a two way type of shot so they were a dog to make it but might leave nothing good.
most pushed out to a two way type of shot so they were a dog to make it but might leave nothing good.
That's how it worked,I played 2 shot push out for many years.So I am to believe every shot was either to pocket a ball or a push out? I don't believe so.
You could push any time during the game so safes were useless.
The 5 7 9 are the only balls on the table. They are along the foot rail. 5 is a 1/2" off the rail at the center diamond.The 7 and 9 are together and no pocket for either ball. I 1 rail the 5 to about the same spot on the head rail and nudge the 7 9 apart leaving whitey along the foot rail. If you can't hit a long rail bank to save your ass and I never miss 1 did I not just play safe?
Exactly
%
And one could certainly reposition other balls on the table, including pocketing them, during a push.
It would be good if someone would post two examples showing the difference between both types of push out.
At.the base it is quite simple:
Two versions, 'two consecutive fouls' and 'two consecutive fouls by the same player'
The first requires a legal hit on the shot after the push. Only the first player may push and the second player has the option to shoot or make pusher shoot.
The second permits the first player to push and the second player may also push afterwards. The first player then has the option to shoot or make pusher two shoot.
Of course, there are many strategic ways to execute a push, many mentioned here earlier...push to a bank, leave a poor angle, tie/ untie or eliminate balls...no vid would ever display all the possible twists.
The first requires a legal hit on the shot after the push. Only the first player may push and the second player has the option to shoot or make pusher shoot.
thats the only style of push out I've ever seen and I go back to the early '60's when it was common.
When the rollout version of 9ball disappeared in competition in the mid-1980s, it's death in the poolhalls was just as quick. It is a myth that this is how most wanted to play back then, and you nearly never saw it in action pool, at least not in New York.
Those who say that the better player won more often really mean that the straighter shooter had a bigger edge than today, because the pushout rules enabled the straighter shooter to push into their favorite shots. In addition, position play errors were not as troublesome in a game that let you push almost any time you chose.
The straighter shooter is not, in my opinion, necessarily the better player. Today's players need to be good at defense, kicking, position play and jumping and the standard in those areas was far lower back then in those complementary skills.
Rollout 9ball was almost unwatchable and it disappeared for good reasons. Pool's TV producers knew better than to feature this type of 9ball.
Those who say that the better player won more often really mean that the straighter shooter had a bigger edge than today, because the pushout rules enabled the straighter shooter to push into their favorite shots. In addition, position play errors were not as troublesome in a game that let you push almost any time you chose.
The straighter shooter is not, in my opinion, necessarily the better player. Today's players need to be good at defense, kicking, position play and jumping and the standard in those areas was far lower back then in those complementary skills.
Rollout 9ball was almost unwatchable and it disappeared for good reasons. Pool's TV producers knew better than to feature this type of 9ball.
sjm closes thread.
except, that being a non gambler he happens this time to be wrong.
pushout enables the weaker player if he is smart at least to have a better chance of winning each game.
and most all gamblers winners and losers, and both good and weak players preferred it.
he is right that it is less watchable then texas.
but watchable shouldn't determine the rules except for televised tournaments. unfortunately what is played in tournaments becomes standard in the pool room.
pushout enables the weaker player if he is smart at least to have a better chance of winning each game.
and most all gamblers winners and losers, and both good and weak players preferred it.
he is right that it is less watchable then texas.
but watchable shouldn't determine the rules except for televised tournaments. unfortunately what is played in tournaments becomes standard in the pool room.
As a weak player, I disagree. Smart play and a good push still requires position and speed control, which are not something possessed by weak players. Now if mean a weak player is a modern 720 Fargo or better, then you could be right.
James Christopher, his prime, was terrific at thin cuts. So if you hooked him, he would push out to one.
Bugs Rucker was terrific at banks. So if you hooked him, he would push out to a bank.
….now if I’m the other shooter, I don’t want to give him his favorite tough shot, so I’m going to push to my favorite shot.
…..that’s what ‘two fouls by the same shooter’ is all about.
…..it makes no sense to me that someone can put me under the gun with a cheap roll-out.
That's how we played in the 70s too, take the push or give it back. Push out to something that you can make, but the other guy can't. Some people would almost always take a push, no matter how bad!
Keith did a great job! I am not a fan of all of CJ's ideas, but I have to give him credit, he gets people interested and is trying to promote the game.
I think the edge Buddy is talking about , includes the face of the tip. Somewhere in one of Bob Byrnes books , he shows the point of contact on the cueball made by a tip , by putting a piece of carbon paper on the cueball and then strokes it with the tip. It is usually a very small contact surface unless you masse down on it. About a quarter the size of a pencil eraser in circumference, or less. When you think about that small area of contact and the fact that the tip is only in contact for a milisecond with the cueball, controlling it to the extent a great player can , would seem impossible. until you watched it!
Unless they are talking about something I have no clue of , which is very possible also lol.
Sorry, but it's the rollout version of nine ball that I played in my youth, and yes, I did gamble at pool in my youth.
Even in today's Texas Express game, a common saying is that the weaker player always has the worst of it on a pushout. In the rollout version of nine ball, the weaker player was backed into that corner more often.
stu, the weaker player gets out of position more often and ends up with a shot he cant make or even hit. so with pushout
he can get a shot or leave one the better player isnt a big favorite to make. it gives him a chance and some shots instead of watching the other player run out. or hooking him and giving up ball in hand to a runout player.
as soon as texas came in the bad and weak gamblers stopped playing.
first time i saw it a road player came in and gave me a game i thought was a lock. untill he ran some balls and hooked me and then had ball in hand and ran out. with pushout i could roll out to a spot where he was only like 60/40 over me.
so i would still be in the game.
i quit him after the first rack and he wouldnt play pushout. so that tells me something. that the better players liked ball in hand.
he can get a shot or leave one the better player isnt a big favorite to make. it gives him a chance and some shots instead of watching the other player run out. or hooking him and giving up ball in hand to a runout player.
as soon as texas came in the bad and weak gamblers stopped playing.
first time i saw it a road player came in and gave me a game i thought was a lock. untill he ran some balls and hooked me and then had ball in hand and ran out. with pushout i could roll out to a spot where he was only like 60/40 over me.
so i would still be in the game.
i quit him after the first rack and he wouldnt play pushout. so that tells me something. that the better players liked ball in hand.