2 more stolen cues recovered! Tank you God for stipid criminals

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how far is this far?

Originally Posted by brandoncook26
Some of these responses are making me ashamed to say I'm involved with pool at all. I swear I have no idea how these people have made it this far in life.

You are right as usual my man...

This thread reminds me of why I quit the game a few years ago. I'm glad I'm back, but I don't regret leaving for a while.
Making it "this far in life" only means that they are still kickin. It doesn't mean that they are anywhere noteworthy in life......
Karl
 
Have you ever stuffed yourself to the gills on thanksgiving day....knowing the whole time how great that food taste? But immediately after you get done eating your like "man i shouldn't have done that" or have you ever done anything ethically wrong and immediately after said to yourself "man i shouldn't have done that".....well when those cuffs were around my hands, i didn't feel like that....I felt like i was doing the right thing...
Me and eric was offered more than $2000 for those cues several times, but from the moment we found out that they were stolen we tryed to find out who they were stolen from, and we didn't sell them because we didn't want to do to them what was done to us. we did a google search for stolen chris nitti cues and stolen mike bender cues, and through the help of the AZ forums....thats how we came in contact with the gentlemen we were to meet in michigan.
When we obtained the cues, we had absolutely no idea that they were stolen. All i knew was i had $2500 invested in them and i was flat broke. But when i contacted this gentlemen he did offer a $500 reward and i told him the whole story of what happened, i told him i had $2500 invested in these cues and i would take a $500 dummy loss for ending up with them and take $2000, knowing that the cues were worth alot more. He acted like this would not be a problem, he said he had to get a couple checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem. Make no mistake about it, regardless of whether i got paid for these cues....i was going to give them back to him, because they were worthless to me.
I am not a thief or a felon, i am a pool player....The march issue was over a suspended liscense...I have never been convicted of any crimes because i have not been involved in any. I don't consider myself your typical pool player, i don't drink or do any drugs, i don't even smoke cigarettes. i believe in God, Morals, Heaven and Hell..
So cornerstone, I didn't know i was getting stolen property, i didn't think from our conversations we were extorting you....I thought we were negotiating a deal to where you recovered your cues for a fair price and i was recovering some of my losses as well. I don't regret calling you, because my eyes have been opened, i am a better person today than i was a week ago for just being in that cell with 15 other guys and hearing their stories...I found out just how lucky I am to have a family that loves me and will do anything for me. Alot of those guys didn't have loved ones to call and help them out...but i was one of the lucky ones...One of the guys in that cell was all tatted up and him and his buddies were looking at 20 years or so and on his back it red "Only God can judge me" That statement is oh so true and going forward that is my motto.
Me and you both lost in this deal cornerstone and i apologize if i offended you.

Oh Robert that is just NOT going to work. I get that "Only God" deal, I really do, but let me tell you, you are about to get judged here, by a judge, and although your story might work real good for your conscience, and for your loved ones, it is just flat not going to fly with the judge. The part about you not being a thief and a felon, that's about to change real quick. As far as self-image goes, all those guys sitting in that cell with you can explain how they are innocent or how their actions were justified.

Please forget seeing yourself as the victim here, your judge will not buy it. Here's his perspective:

Bill bought, paid, for and stored some cues that were his property on his property. He owns those cues.

That property was stolen from Bill in a break and entry by criminals.

You knew Bill owned that property when you contacted him.

You attempted to extort funds from Bill in order for the return of his legally owned property.

You got caught by police red handed with Bills property in your possession looking to make an extortion exchange.

You can tell that judge he can't judge you all you want, but he's going to, and punish you.

If you want to get ahead of this thing you best get proactive quick, and making excuses for your behavior in order to mitigate how it feels for your self-image won't work. That turkey dinner feeling is some discomfort for a couple of hours, this deal will haunt you your entire life.

I don't know if this is a situation where the system will even allow Bill to "drop the charges" but man, I would be ALL OVER that aspect, were it me. Bill is a man that attempts to run his life by Christian principles and I'd be looking, begging, him for some Christian charity. And, before I did, I'd be dropping the justifications and be moving on to some great big "I'm sorry"s.

But that's just me.

Good luck to you

Kevin
 
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Have you ever stuffed yourself to the gills on thanksgiving day....knowing the whole time how great that food taste? But immediately after you get done eating your like "man i shouldn't have done that" or have you ever done anything ethically wrong and immediately after said to yourself "man i shouldn't have done that".....well when those cuffs were around my hands, i didn't feel like that....I felt like i was doing the right thing...
Me and eric was offered more than $2000 for those cues several times, but from the moment we found out that they were stolen we tryed to find out who they were stolen from, and we didn't sell them because we didn't want to do to them what was done to us. we did a google search for stolen chris nitti cues and stolen mike bender cues, and through the help of the AZ forums....thats how we came in contact with the gentlemen we were to meet in michigan.
When we obtained the cues, we had absolutely no idea that they were stolen. All i knew was i had $2500 invested in them and i was flat broke. But when i contacted this gentlemen he did offer a $500 reward and i told him the whole story of what happened, i told him i had $2500 invested in these cues and i would take a $500 dummy loss for ending up with them and take $2000, knowing that the cues were worth alot more. He acted like this would not be a problem, he said he had to get a couple checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem. Make no mistake about it, regardless of whether i got paid for these cues....i was going to give them back to him, because they were worthless to me.
I am not a thief or a felon, i am a pool player....The march issue was over a suspended liscense...I have never been convicted of any crimes because i have not been involved in any. I don't consider myself your typical pool player, i don't drink or do any drugs, i don't even smoke cigarettes. i believe in God, Morals, Heaven and Hell..
So cornerstone, I didn't know i was getting stolen property, i didn't think from our conversations we were extorting you....I thought we were negotiating a deal to where you recovered your cues for a fair price and i was recovering some of my losses as well. I don't regret calling you, because my eyes have been opened, i am a better person today than i was a week ago for just being in that cell with 15 other guys and hearing their stories...I found out just how lucky I am to have a family that loves me and will do anything for me. Alot of those guys didn't have loved ones to call and help them out...but i was one of the lucky ones...One of the guys in that cell was all tatted up and him and his buddies were looking at 20 years or so and on his back it red "Only God can judge me" That statement is oh so true and going forward that is my motto.
Me and you both lost in this deal cornerstone and i apologize if i offended you.

Nice post Robert...I always treat people how they treat me regardless of rumor or speculation. You have been honest and loyal with me in our brief relationship and I hope things work out for you. Wishing you all the best going forward and I hope you get pumped up real quick so I can try to bust ya...oops you play too good, never mind bout that. ;)
 
You're really smart.

Maybe if you beat them bad enough then you can catch a higher felony than the standard battery with bodily injury, and then if you beat them up to take back your items it will be C Felony robbery.



QUOTE=Jaden;3287218]I would agree to pay them the $2000, then met up with them and beat the shit out them and took my property back...

i'd be willing to pay a reward, but you try to extort me and it aint gonna end well...

Jaden[/QUOTE]
 
Please take some of that money you have and invest in Mavis Beacon Typing or something to help with your spelling inadequacies.



i was coming and carring my wilson combat, but the state police,( the greatest bunch of guys ive delt with) besides the azers!! Said dont worry let them handle it . You dont want to loos your carry privs!
 
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Can anyone explain the logic behind negotiating with someone to sell them back their property?

I didn't know that this is something that is considered moral and appropriate in any context without regard to the illegality of it.

I think that this thread has some people in it who have had cues stolen and never recovered them, some who have had cues stolen and did recover them, and some who have no clue what it feels like to have your expensive property stolen from you.

I will tell it like this. If I eve again have a cue stolen from me and someone has it in their possession and tries to "negotiate" with me on a price to get it back then I am going to try to have them arrested.

Now if someone comes up to me and says that they can TRY to get my cues back and if I am offering a reward then the amount of the reward can be negotiated because THAT is a fee for a service.

But being in possession of the goods and trying to get more money is the same as the scammer moving companies that lowball the price until they have the goods on their truck and then they triple the fee. (happened to my parents five years ago).

It's extortion plain and simple.

Robert, I can understand your side of it but you did it the wrong way. I hope that you can plea out on probation with the opportunity to get the record expunged after probation. Anyway I am done with this thread, as one who has had prized and special cues stolen from me I abhor anything that makes it even worse. The guy you were gambling with still owes you the money btw but don't get yourself into more trouble trying to collect on that debt.
 
Sorry me being silly again I'm sure, but to me you saying Bill keeping his business inventory locked on his private property was him leaving his inventory " lying around begging to be stolen." resembled someone indicating that you thought he deserved it. That would be a stupid thing to say and thanks for pointing out that wasn't what you were saying.

Just so I can understand you, what were you saying when you said he left them begging to be stolen?

Thanks again

Kevin

I was saying that he was expecting someone else to pay for what might have been his "stipid" mistake. You see, he used the word "stipid" in the title of the thread and I was making a play on the word "stipid". Making a play on a word means . . . well, never mind.
 
When we obtained the cues, we had absolutely no idea that they were stolen. All i knew was i had $2500 invested in them and i was flat broke. But when i contacted this gentlemen he did offer a $500 reward and i told him the whole story of what happened, i told him i had $2500 invested in these cues and i would take a $500 dummy loss for ending up with them and take $2000, knowing that the cues were worth alot more. He acted like this would not be a problem, he said he had to get a couple checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem. Make no mistake about it, regardless of whether i got paid for these cues....i was going to give them back to him, because they were worthless to me.

You see- if this is true this is the problem I have with Cornerstone's version which is quite different from what I deduced all along had really happened.

Cornerstone tried very hard to give the impression that Robert Frost kept demanding more money and threatening to not return the cues if he didn't get more money.

What actually happened was that Robert Frost tried to speak to him like a human being and request some offsetting compensation for his own loss after going to the trouble of tracking down the rightful owner rather than just selling the cues. Cornerstone lured him into a setup apparently by saying that could be discussed.

If Cornerstone is so upright as a lot of people are making him out to be he should have said that he wouldn't compensate them for more than X amount or any amount at all and demanded the cues be returned rather than give the impression that discussing compensation was acceptable.

That would have been the ethical thing to do. It doesn't appear he did it because, thinking logically (try to follow this), why would what Cornerstone portrays as a lowlife criminal appear at the meeting place?
 
Oh Robert that is just NOT going to work. I get that "Only God" deal, I really do, but let me tell you, you are about to get judged here, by a judge, and although your story might work real good for your conscience, and for your loved ones, it is just flat not going to fly with the judge.
Kevin

You know what, Kevin? You're just plain full of poop.

There's no way a jury is going to convict this guy.

(That's right- the accused still has the right to a jury in America. Juries were invented explicitly because of people like you.)
 
Can anyone explain the logic behind negotiating with someone to sell them back their property?

He wasn't selling the cues back to Cornerstone he was simply asking to discuss compensation for his own loss. He stated that he would have returned them in any case. But then maybe you've already peered deep into his soul and know that he really wouldn't have. But, of course, that isn't very logical either, is it, since he could have simply sold them to someone else for more? If Robert Frost was as dishonest as you and others portray him to be he wouldn't even be talking to Cornerstone.

It astounding how many people here who think they're mental and ethical geniuses can't even grasp the simplest things.
 
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He wasn't selling the cues back to Cornerstone he was simply asking to discuss compensation for his own loss. He stated that he would have returned them in any case. But then maybe you've already peered deep into his soul and know that he really wouldn't have. But, of course, that isn't very logical either, is it, since he could have simply sold them to someone else for more? If Robert Frost was as dishonest as you and others portray him to be he wouldn't even be talking to Cornerstone.

It astounding how many people here who think they're mental and ethical geniuses can't even grasp the simplest things.

Hey there. I once lost some money on a stock transaction. If I happen to come into illicit possession of your cue or cues, I would gladly give them back to you. Of course, I would have to discuss my rather large loss of several tens of thousands of dollars on that stock trade before I could consider giving your cue back...
 
Hey there. I once lost some money on a stock transaction. If I happen to come into illicit possession of your cue or cues, I would gladly give them back to you. Of course, I would have to discuss my rather large loss of several tens of thousands of dollars on that stock trade before I could consider giving your cue back...

Example in point.
 
He wasn't selling the cues back to Cornerstone he was simply asking to discuss compensation for his own loss. He stated that he would have returned them in any case. But then maybe you've already peered deep into his soul and know that he really wouldn't have. But, of course, that isn't very logical either, is it, since he could have simply sold them to someone else for more? If Robert Frost was as dishonest as you and others portray him to be he wouldn't even be talking to Cornerstone.

It astounding how many people here who think they're mental and ethical geniuses can't even grasp the simplest things.

Posted by Robert:

So cornerstone, I didn't know i was getting stolen property, i didn't think from our conversations we were extorting you....I thought we were negotiating a deal to where you recovered your cues for a fair price and i was recovering some of my losses as well.

I don't know, I am a dummy I guess. Guy calls me up and has possession of my property and negotiates the price for me to get my property back?

A fair price to get the cues back is ZERO. Robert says hey, we got your cues as payment for a gambling debt, found out that they were yours and I am returning them to you.

Not saying hey I have your cues and Bill says great I will give you a $500 reward for getting them back to me and then Robert says that's too low.

You can look at this in all the shades of grey you want to but the fact of is when you are knowingly in possession of stolen property then it's NOT YOURS and you are not entitled to ANY compensation for whatever you put into it.

If you think that this is ok ON ANY LEVEL then please tell me your address so I can pick up some quick cash by stealing all your stuff, giving it to me friend who will then sell it back to you. Sounds like the greatest business in the world. Well except for the going to jail part.
 
Not saying hey I have your cues and Bill says great I will give you a $500 reward for getting them back to me and then Robert says that's too low.

Why are you fabricating that Robert Frost said, "That's too low"? Doesn't it ever occur to you that if you have to invent things to shove in Robert Frost's mouth to make your argument stand up then maybe your basic premise is off-kilter? Robert Frost said he would have returned the cues even if he hadn't received anything. This is a believable claim since it appears that Robert Frost brought the cues with him without having received anything.

If Cornerstone represented that it was OK to discuss sharing of their losses then that's when it became OK and everything you are saying is irrelevant. If it wasn't OK with Cornerstone to discuss sharing of losses then Cornerstone should have said so rather than lie.
 
Why are you fabricating that Robert Frost said, "That's too low"? Doesn't it ever occur to you that if you have to invent things to shove in Robert Frost's mouth to make your argument stand up then maybe your basic premise is off-kilter? Robert Frost said he would have returned the cues even if he hadn't received anything. This is a believable claim since it appears that Robert Frost brought the cues with him without having received anything.

If Cornerstone represented that it was OK to discuss sharing of their losses then that's when it became OK and everything you are saying is irrelevant. If it wasn't OK with Cornerstone to discuss sharing of losses then Cornerstone should have said so rather than lie.

RB, I guess I admire your dogged determination to try and make your point but, it takes more 'fabricating' to make Frost look good than it takes to make Cornerstone look bad.
 
Why are you fabricating that Robert Frost said, "That's too low"? Doesn't it ever occur to you that if you have to invent things to shove in Robert Frost's mouth to make your argument stand up then maybe your basic premise is off-kilter? Robert Frost said he would have returned the cues even if he hadn't received anything. This is a believable claim since it appears that Robert Frost brought the cues with him without having received anything.

If Cornerstone represented that it was OK to discuss sharing of their losses then that's when it became OK and everything you are saying is irrelevant. If it wasn't OK with Cornerstone to discuss sharing of losses then Cornerstone should have said so rather than lie.

Um Bill said he offered $500 reward and they said no. Robert Frost said that he thought they were negotiating. So the natural inference is that when the offer of $500 was rejected then it wasn't rejected downward in Bill's favor.

If Robert would have returned them for no money then why the negotiation (Robert's words)?

Now you are calling Bill a liar?

My basic premise is intact. You have cues you know are stolen. You know who they belong to. You give them back and take the hit and go on with your life and try to forget the bad roll.

That's my premise.

If the guy who owns them wants to reward me with anything then I will take it depending on where I am in life. If I am flat broke then I will take the money and be thankful. If I am flush then I will refuse the money and say glad to help.

That's me. One thing I won't do is negotiate with the property owner about him much he should give me before I hand him his property.
 
By the way, the owner of PawnStarz was on Motley Fool and he was asked what the biggest loss they ever took was. He said someone came in with a diamond ring and it all checked out and they bought it for $40,000. The next day the police came and confiscated it because it was stolen. The seller was caught because he had to provide I.D. - but the pawn shop was out the money with no compensation at all.
 
Have you ever stuffed yourself to the gills on thanksgiving day....knowing the whole time how great that food taste? But immediately after you get done eating your like "man i shouldn't have done that"

Last time I checked, eating turkey wasn't illegal.
 
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