$200 for a billiard university diploma!!

[dr_dave]

I think the BU is fantastic and really appreciate it. I have to this point not taken the time to do the exam but +1 to Dr Dave and crew.

Thanks to everybody who has been supportive in this thread. I appreciate it.

I have put a lot of work, time, and energy into creating the BU, the exams, and the online resources. If I were to calculate the hourly rate based on the income we have generated so far (mostly from BU DVD sales), it would be astoundingly low (probably in the one cent per hour range). I didn't create the BU to get rich ... I did it as a service to the pool community. If lots of pool instructors embrace the concept and sell diplomas and DVDs, I could certainly profit from this ... but they would also.

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[Tony_in_MD]

If lots of pool instructors embrace the concept and sell diplomas and DVDs, I could certainly profit from this ... but they would also.

Thanks again,
Dave

As would their students.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Elroy,

If this concept is too much for you head over to NPR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[pogmothoin]

Can you imagine the balls of somebody who put in this much effort into helping others play better pocket billiards trying to recoup something for his time and effort.

Paraphrasing Lucy, "I think it should be 5 bucks " Says Corprate geek "everything can't be 5 bucks"

 

[sfleinen]

My website has certainly never been referred to as a "DeathStar" before. I'm not sure if I should be proud or pissed. Regardless, I thought your analogy was cute.

As I type this sentence, I am breathing and talking like Death Vader. "Resistance is futile." (... or was that from some other movie?).

Catch you later,
Dave

Actually, you have a very short memory.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3323906#post3323906

Remember this thread? Granted, I didn't use the term "DeathStar" before. I used the terms "blackhole," "event horizon," and "acretion disk." (These are actually worse -- stuff sucked into a blackhole is never seen again, which is not the case with your website. Back then [at the time of that thread link above, a couple years ago], the issue with your site was information that was stripmined and vacuumed off of AZB was stripped of any accounting/sourcing information that a reader could use to find the real source where that information came from. The linkage to the original poster/author was hopelessly and forever broken, and the information became "yours." You've kindly addressed that issue since.)

Oh, and yes, that "Resistance is futile" quote is from Star Trek (i.e. the Borg), not Star Wars.

-Sean

 

[BeiberLvr]

lolnerds......

 

[His Boy Elroy]

What's the problem??

They came up with a great combination of fundamentals and drills to test your ability.

They offered this information for free!

If you want to get a Diploma - more power to you. (I've spent $200 on worse things)

* I do not have and do not plan on getting a Diploma but I feel the information helps develop and measure ability.

It is a terrific test. I haven't taken it myself but I've watched people take it. Much work must have been put into it and I'm sure people have enjoyed and benefitted from taking it.

That being said, why would you or anyone else want to pay $200 for a (diploma?). Frankly, If you've spent money on worse things I don't want to hear about it. What does this diploma signify? They are conferring upon you a designation of accomplishment that exists only in academic institutions. It's simply incongruous with games like pool.

I have no family members or friends who are serious pool players, but if any of them came into my basement and saw that I had a diploma that says I was a doctorate in pool I'm sure they would immediately break out laughing. They wouldn't be laughing at me. They would be laughing with me. My family and friends are intelligent people and although they're not pool players, they would obviously think I bought it and a novelty store because any intelligent person knows that possessing a diploma that states you're a doctorate in pool is ridiculous.

If that's not the case with you, why don't you go to a print shop and have them make you a diploma that says you're a doctorate in pool. It will cost a whole lot less than $200. So maybe you don't want to do do that? You're probably an honest person and you don't want to deceive people by putting a fraudulent diploma on your wall. If that's the case, tell me what is legitimate about the diplomas these pool instructors give out.

These 8 instructors and or pool writers devised a fine pool test. So after seeing the results of the test they now say, In our minds, you're a doctorate in pool. Send me $150 and I'll post that information that in our minds your a doctorate in pool. You've really spent $150 on worse things? As I said, I don't want to hear about it.

 

[barking4action]

I'll play anyone with the diploma even up $200 sets in the Bay Area.

 

[His Boy Elroy]

Sit down, because I known this is going to come as a shock, but Amazon.com is not a store you can walk into, you can't pick up and hold a copy of Wikipedia, and when a player is inducted into The National Soccer Hall of Fame they don't get a plaque they get a web page. It's a brave new world out there. Welcome.

Lou Figueroa

I have no problems with pool sites listing the accomplishments of players as apposed to handing out plaques. You're completely missing the point. I have a problem with these instructors deceiving people into thinking they're professors at a pool university and deceiving people into thinking that as professors at a pool university they have the legitimacy to award people academic degrees in pool and simply pocket $150 because they believe people who receive these degrees are being privileged by having these degrees bestowed on them by instructors of such high esteem as they believe of themselves.
DOESN'T ANYBODY HAVE ANY CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS AROUND HERE?

 

[Neil]

I have no problems with pool sites listing the accomplishments of players as apposed to handing out plaques. You're completely missing the point. I have a problem with these instructors deceiving people into thinking they're professors at a pool university and deceiving people into thinking that as professors at a pool university they have the legitimacy to award people academic degrees in pool and simply pocket $150 because they believe people who receive these degrees are being privileged by having these degrees bestowed on them by instructors of such high esteem as they believe of themselves.
DOESN'T ANYBODY HAVE ANY CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS AROIND HERE?

Well, apparently you don't, because you still don't understand. Since you, like a few others around here want to just be nitpicky to try and make a name for yourself because you have nothing else to do it with, why don't you also make a thread about the APA and how their "masters" are not masters of a craft, because there are a lot of APA 5's and 6's playing in the masters division? Why not troll the APA since you think you know so much?

 

[Eagleshot]

It is a terrific test. I haven't taken it myself but I've watched people take it. Much work must have been put into it and I'm sure people have enjoyed and benefitted from taking it.

That being said, why would you or anyone else want to pay $200 for a (diploma?). Frankly, If you've spent money on worse things I don't want to hear about it. What does this diploma signify? They are conferring upon you a designation of accomplishment that exists only in academic institutions. It's simply incongruous with games like pool.

I have no family members or friends who are serious pool players, but if any of them came into my basement and saw that I had a diploma that says I was a doctorate in pool I'm sure they would immediately break out laughing. They wouldn't be laughing at me. They would be laughing with me. My family and friends are intelligent people and although they're not pool players, they would obviously think I bought it and a novelty store because any intelligent person knows that possessing a diploma that states you're a doctorate in pool is ridiculous.

If that's not the case with you, why don't you go to a print shop and have them make you a diploma that says you're a doctorate in pool. It will cost a whole lot less than $200. So maybe you don't want to do do that? You're probably an honest person and you don't want to deceive people by putting a fraudulent diploma on your wall. If that's the case, tell me what is legitimate about the diplomas these pool instructors give out.

These 8 instructors and or pool writers devised a fine pool test. So after seeing the results of the test they now say, In our minds, you're a doctorate in pool. Send me $150 and I'll post that information that in our minds your a doctorate in pool. You've really spent $150 on worse things? As I said, I don't want to hear about it.

Perhaps the people who would purchase the diploma are not interested in how others might perceive the diploma.

Maybe they are spending $150 on a tangible display of a personal milestone achieved.

You keep comparing the BU diploma to an academic diploma. Please keep in mind, an academic diploma is only a tangible display of a personal milestone achieved.

Members of this forum (myself included) spend huge sums of money on expensive
cues, cases, tournaments, time, tips, tools, lessons.........you get my point.

I don't understand why you are vehemently opposed to the BU diploma.

They are not trying to defraud the consumer. No rational person is under the impression that a BU diploma grants access to a super secret "Professional Pool" society.

If someone wants one, by all means go get one.

The testing is great practice and if someone wants a diploma and recognition for accomplishing their goals why should anyone judge them.

 

[Neil]

I'll play anyone with the diploma even up $200 sets in the Bay Area.

You make that offer soley to try and discredit the exams. So far, there are only three people in the semi-pro range that have taken it. One in Germany, one if Fla., and one in Canada. And you want to play in Ca.. That has to be the safest bet ever made on this forum. Knowing full well no one would take it. Total fail.

Why don't you try the exams and let us know how you do on it? See how it compares to what you think your rating is now? Why not do something to help pool instead of just knocking what others are doing?

 

[PocketSpeed11]

Sit down, because I known this is going to come as a shock, but Amazon.com is not a store you can walk into, you can't pick up and hold a copy of Wikipedia, and when a player is inducted into The National Soccer Hall of Fame they don't get a plaque they get a web page. It's a brave new world out there. Welcome.

Lou Figueroa

"A national soccer hall of fame?," said me and 99.99% of the country.

 

[Neil]

Perhaps the people who would purchase the diploma are not interested in how others might perceive the diploma.

Maybe they are spending $150 on a tangible display of a personal milestone achieved.

You keep comparing the BU diploma to an academic diploma. Please keep in mind, an academic diploma is only a tangible display of a personal milestone achieved.

Members of this forum (myself included) spend huge sums of money on expensive
cues, cases, tournaments, time, tips, tools, lessons.........you get my point.

I don't understand why you are vehemently opposed to the BU diploma.

They are not trying to defraud the consumer. No rational person is under the impression that a BU diploma grants access to a super secret "Professional Pool" society.

If someone wants one, by all means go get one.

The testing is great practice and if someone wants a diploma and recognition for accomplishing their goals why should anyone judge them.

Exactly! All any diploma is, is just a piece of paper showing accomplishment in a given area. That's exactly what the B.U. diplomas do. They show accomplishment in playing pool. But, beyond that, you aren't just paying for the paper. Given enough people, the exams could very well be used as a National or even world ranking system. It fairly assesses one's skill in a variety of areas. The PAT tests also do this.

One would think that a person like HisBoyElroy, who has phobias that prevent him from playing in public, would jump on an opportunity like this to actually test himself without having to be in the public to do it. Yet, instead, he goes out of his way to mock what could be a great thing for him. I guess there will always be people that get an opportunity at a golden goose, and all they see is goose dumplings.

 

[book collector]

I'm a bit confused. I wish someone would help me out. What is Billiard University? Can I see it or touch it or taste it in some way? Is there any other way I can perceive what it could possibly be? Can someone describe this entity to me In a way where I could have just a fasmile of recognition of it's existence?

Maybe it's me but I just can't seem to get a grasp of this concept of a Billiard University. I've visited www.billiarduniversity.org and it still doesn't help. There's only 5 things you can do over there. 1) You can learn about an instructional weekend that's going to be held in July of 2014 by 3 instructors from ( billiard university?). They call it (billiard university?) boot camp. It's 17 hours of instruction over a 3 day weekend. Tuition is $850. Most universities provide more than 17 hours of instruction a year. I'm stll confused.

2) You can purchase up to 5 instructional videos from instructors at (billiard university?) Well...that's an online store. It's not a university. Accuu Stats doesn't call itself a university. At least I don't think it does. I'm remaining confused!

3) You can access just about everything Dr. Dave has published for free about pool. I've benefitted some by reading Dr.Dave and when he sits down at his typewriter he sure does bring an energy and drive with him that produces a startlingly large amount of information and explanations; nevertheless, Dave strikes me as a humble guy and he certainly wouldn't be the type of guy who would think to himself, "Inside my mind there exists a university! .........confusion reigns!

4) Well; then there's the test. There's all kinds of info about the test. There's an under view, an overview, a middleview. Basically, by far, most of the subject matter at the site is about the test and after all the preview matter is read, instruction is given on how to actually take the test....A test is not a university. They don't call the PAT a university. They all it the pool assessment test....I just can't shake this confusion!

While still on the subject of the test...They now start talking about how results from the test could make a taker eligible to apply for a diploma from (Billiard University??) Depending on the score one could obtain a bachelor's degree, a masters degree, a masters degree with honors, or a doctorate. From the low score needed to obtain a bachelors degree it looks like the only person who woudn't qualify would be someone with casts on both arms who has to shoot holding the cue between his toes!

So now, they start talking about the cost of a diploma from (Billiard University???)
You have to send in a tape of yourself to Randy. He's the Registraar of (Billiard University????) Randy officially confirms the score.

If a tester qualifies for a (Billiard University?????) diploma, there are 3 options. The recipient can choose to pay $200 and have a diploma with fancy ass paper sent to them, they can pay $175 and have it maid to them in a PDF file which can then be copied, or they can choose to have no diploma, but have their degree accomplishment listed on the (Billiard University??????) site for $150.

Well; seems some folks have already obtained degrees and their names are listed: fifteen in all. 5 of them are (Billiard University???????) instructors. ( I'll get to that) It's logical to assume the other 10 members are family members of the instructors.

5) Ok; now to the faculty of (Billiard University????????). Dr. Dave Is the Dean. He's the founder of (Billiard University?????????) along with Randy the Registraar. There are 6 professors. I don't want to list all their names but they're some of the most well known instructors and writers in the pool industry.

Below them are the assistant professors of (Billiard University??????????) There's about 8 of them and a few big names there too. Below them on the totem pole are several contributing instructors.

The point of all this is; all of you can go over to the site and see for yourself what I just described. The reason I described detail by detail what I saw is to explain that no where over there did I ever pick up a clue as to what the hell (Billiard University????????????) is or where it is or how it exists as an entity in any way, shape, or form. OH YEAH! I FORGOT TO TELL YA! THERE'S A WHOLE BIG SECTION THAT EXPLAINS THAT THE PROFESSORS, THE ASSISTANT PROFESSORS, AND THE CONTRIBUTING PROFESSORS ALL GET TO SHARE IN THE PROFITS TAKEN IN FROM THE SALE OF DIPLOMAS!

So; as I said, I'm confused. I really can't understand why some of the biggest names among American pool instructors are trying to profit by selling diplomas costing $150 to $200 dollars from a university that doesn't exist. As I said before, maybe it's me. If Billiard University really exists, please help me find it; and please tell others too, because as of right now, I doubt there's a single person other than instructors, or family members and friends of instructors who have obtained a so-called diploma.

It must be a rude awakening when you think everyone else in the pool community other than yourselves is stupid and you're proved wrong!!!

This guy Dave put a tremendous amount of work in his tutorials put them out for free and if someone wanted to buy them in an easier to find format he made that possible.
I don't know the guy , never met him , never heard anything about him except what he has done on here and You Tube , but I do know he is one of the few "Good" things I've seen in pool in a long time .
If he is trying to make money off his work , no problem, he's not forcing you to look or buy.
Whether you have noticed it or not , there are plenty of people on here trying to make a buck that haven't done squat.
Maybe your time would be better spent , questioning some of them.
Unless you are not confused at all and just want to knock ? I did not realise so many people had already posted Didn't mean to pile on ,

 

[His Boy Elroy]

You make that offer soley to try and discredit the exams. So far, there are only three people in the semi-pro range that have taken it. One in Germany, one if Fla., and one in Canada. And you want to play in Ca.. That has to be the safest bet ever made on this forum. Knowing full well no one would take it. Total fail.

Why don't you try the exams and let us know how you do on it? See how it compares to what you think your rating is now? Why not do something to help pool instead of just knocking what others are doing?

First of all, why would I be I be trying to make a name for myself? My screen name is Elroy. My real name is Tim. There are thousands of Tim's in this country. No one knows where I live. That being the case, what would be the point of trying to make a name for myself?

We have a misunderstanding. There is much about pool I am totally ignorant about. I can't address issues related to the APA since I know nothing about the APA and how it operates. If you're critical of it, start a thread about it and educate me about it.

As I've said, the test devised by the instructors who claim to be professors at billiard university is a fine test. For all I know it is the best assessment of pool skill test ever invented. I'm sure many players have benefitted from taking the test and it has enriched their pool lives

My problem is with the devisors of this test claim that the game of pool is an academic discipline commensurate with academic disciplines taught at academic universities and that they are professors at some billiard university and this test was devised at some sort of billiard university and for $200 dollars they will award you an academic degree in pool.

They are consciously or unconsciously targeting people without critical thinking skills and trying to take their money. They are basically pocketing the entire $150 dollars and in exchange saying, "Thanks for the money Doctor." If any of these instructors have a diploma from billiard university on the wall near their table, be sure it is a source of amusement when family or friends see it and be sure the instructor laughs along with them. They are either consciously or unconsciously taking advantage of people of lower intelligence who actually believe in billiard university and believe that achieving a degree from billiard university is something to take pride in

You know what else they're doing? Either consciously or unconsciously they are aware of their tactics. Either consciously or unconsciously they know intelligent people will see through them. So how do they deal with this? They give away the test for free. It's a terrific test and when someone's pool game benefits from it they appreciate the efforts of those who are provided the means of benefit. They are then much less likely to look at the operation critically and realize the tactic is to target people of lower intelligence and just simply take $150 from them in exchange for saying, "Thanks Doctor!"

Hey Neil; if I'm not mistaken.....you're associate instructor over at billiard university.

 

[dr9ball]

My problem is with the devisors of this test claim that the game of pool is an academic discipline commensurate with academic disciplines taught at academic universities and that they are professors at some billiard university and this test was devised at some sort of billiard university and for $200 dollars they will award you an academic degree in pool.

They are consciously or unconsciously targeting people without critical thinking skills and trying to take their money. They are basically pocketing the entire $150 dollars and in exchange saying, "Thanks for the money Doctor." If any of these instructors have a diploma from billiard university on the wall near their table, be sure it is a source of amusement when family or friends see it and be sure the instructor laughs along with them. They are either consciously or unconsciously taking advantage of people of lower intelligence who actually believe in billiard university and believe that achieving a degree from billiard university is something to take pride in

You know what else they're doing? Either consciously or unconsciously they are aware of their tactics. Either consciously or unconsciously they know intelligent people will see through them. So how do they deal with this? They give away the test for free. It's a terrific test and when someone's pool game benefits from it they appreciate the efforts of those who are provided the means of benefit. They are then much less likely to look at the operation critically and realize the tactic is to target people of lower intelligence and just simply take $150 from them in exchange for saying, "Thanks Doctor!"

Hey Neil; if I'm not mistaken.....you're associate instructor over at billiard university.

Think of it in a similar fashion to a Tae Kwon Do student paying for the privilege of testing for their Black Belt. They take lessons, pay a fee and take a test. If they meet the standards of the "school" they get a new belt and perhaps a certificate or diploma that states their accomplishment. Does that black belt mean they can hold their own on the street? It probably depends on the person. Do the instructors and school have the ability to market their instruction and ranking/certificate programs? Of course they do. It's called marketing. If people perceive the acknowledgement/degree as having value then they will pay for it. If they don't, they won't. Haters goin' to hate or some other such saying popularized in popular culture.

 

[Neil]

First of all, why would I be I be trying to make a name for myself? My screen name is Elroy. My real name is Tim. There are thousands of Tim's in this country. No one knows where I live. That being the case, what would be the point of trying to make a name for myself?

We have a misunderstanding. There is much about pool I am totally ignorant about. I can't address issues related to the APA since I know nothing about the APA and how it operates. If you're critical of it, start a thread about it and educate me about it.

As I've said, the test devised by the instructors who claim to be professors at billiard university is a fine test. For all I know it is the best assessment of pool skill test ever invented. I'm sure many players have benefitted from taking the test and it has enriched their pool lives

My problem is with the devisors of this test claim that the game of pool is an academic discipline commensurate with academic disciplines taught at academic universities and that they are professors at some billiard university and this test was devised at some sort of billiard university and for $200 dollars they will award you an academic degree in pool.

They are consciously or unconsciously targeting people without critical thinking skills and trying to take their money. They are basically pocketing the entire $150 dollars and in exchange saying, "Thanks for the money Doctor." If any of these instructors have a diploma from billiard university on the wall near their table, be sure it is a source of amusement when family or friends see it and be sure the instructor laughs along with them. They are either consciously or unconsciously taking advantage of people of lower intelligence who actually believe in billiard university and believe that achieving a degree from billiard university is something to take pride in

You know what else they're doing? Either consciously or unconsciously they are aware of their tactics. Either consciously or unconsciously they know intelligent people will see through them. So how do they deal with this? They give away the test for free. It's a terrific test and when someone's pool game benefits from it they appreciate the efforts of those who are provided the means of benefit. They are then much less likely to look at the operation critically and realize the tactic is to target people of lower intelligence and just simply take $150 from them in exchange for saying, "Thanks Doctor!"

Hey Neil; if I'm not mistaken.....you're associate instructor over at billiard university.

How intelligent of you to call anyone that does pay for it "stupid". The more you post, the more you sound just like your cohort, English. Wouldn't surprise me at all to find out you two are one and the same. Might not be, but wouldn't surprise me if you were.

As to the title "professor", care to guess what the same person is called when he instead teaches in a high school instead of a college?? Maybe some day you will get a clue, but no one here is holding their breath waiting for that day.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

How intelligent of you to call anyone that does pay for it "stupid". The more you post, the more you sound just like your cohort, English. Wouldn't surprise me at all to find out you two are one and the same. Might not be, but wouldn't surprise me if you were.

As to the title "professor", care to guess what the same person is called when he instead teaches in a high school instead of a college?? Maybe some day you will get a clue, but no one here is holding their breath waiting for that day.

There's no need to insult him. He has a point, whether you like it or not. The fact virtually no one has done the test is testament to that.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

lolnerds......

Therein lies the problem.