$200 for a billiard university diploma!!

Ghosst said:
I know how badly I play. But solely to give Champ and Larry a great big GFY I'm going to have to find a way to take this now (I can't really go putting reinforcements on the table at the poolhall). Even when I fail to make a score high enough to get a diploma I'll pay the $200.
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You don't have to put reinforcements down, that just makes it simpler.

I used the chalk from our blackboards on the wall (that we use to keep score, or list who's next, etc) to make a very small dot. Works fine enough to go back to, and you can rub it out easily when you are done.
 
justadub said:
You don't have to put reinforcements down, that just makes it simpler.
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It's also the issue of finding a quiet time (it's the only poolhall for 150 miles) when I can setup a camera on a tripod. But I will find a way, just to say thanks to Dave and his partners for all of their hard work.
 
Shannon.spronk said:
I am starting to wonder if the OP is on another forum ranting about how Best Buy might not actually always be the Best Buy and how they are committing serious fraud. Is he concerned that Pizza Hut is not a hut at all?

I mean it is a free enterprise system. Find people to pay you for what you do. You complain that the degree costs $200 and then try to break it down into $30 for the test itself and $25 for the diploma and so on then can't figure out where the other $115 is going. Are you factoring in the time and money that went into making all of the material that they actually make available for free? Companies would refer to this time and money as Research and Development. Sometimes they will make this type of technology available for free to the general public.

Do you look at products when you are at stores and then break them down piece by piece to decide what they actually cost so that if you cannot account for every cent you go call the manager a fraud? No? Yeah that is because people can charge for things as they please. If you do not want to pay, then don't.
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There is nothing over at so- called billiard university for free except the Doc's previously published web writings. Besides that they sell 13 DVD's and there is a brochure that describes and details how to sign up for a three day teaching clinic next July. That's it.

Congradulations Doc. Your methods are working. You've convinced this guy you have a real Billiards University over there and he thinks test-takers should pay you for research and development.!
 
His Boy Elroy said:
There is nothing over at so- called billiard university for free except the Doc's previously published web writings. Besides that they sell 13 DVD's and there is a brochure that describes and details how to sign up for a three day teaching clinic next July. That's it.

Congradulations Doc. Your methods are working. You've convinced this guy you have a real Billiards University over there and he thinks test-takers should pay you for research and development.!
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Why are you wasting your time with this? You don't even want this product (afterall, "it didn't come from CJ"), yet you are here b*tching and whining about the cost of it.

I honestly don't get where people place priorities in their lives. Do you really have all this time on your hands to b*tch and whine about something that you don't even want, for the sheer "15 minutes of fame" of it? Or, is it an extremist signpost that you can cling to, just so you have a clearly-defined side that you can point a finger from, and say to folks, "There -- you see over there? That's the enemy. Attack!"

Extremists -- they come in all forms. And they all want one thing -- a signpost to cling to, so they can feel important and say "these are my homies; I actually belong somewhere!"

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Why are you wasting your time with this? You don't even want this product (afterall, "it didn't come from CJ"), yet you are here b*tching and whining about the cost of it.

I honestly don't get where people place priorities in their lives. Do you really have all this time on your hands to b*tch and whine about something that you don't even want, for the sheer "15 minutes of fame" of it? Or, is it an extremist signpost that you can cling to, just so you have a clearly-defined side that you can point a finger from, and say to folks, "There -- you see over there? That's the enemy. Attack!"

Extremists -- they come in all forms. And they all want one thing -- a signpost to cling to, so they can feel important and say "these are my homies; I actually belong somewhere!"

-Sean
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I have wondered the same thing. If you don't like it move on to something else......like push pools soon to be released latest and greatest manifesto of the blissfully blind.
 
Eagleshot said:
What's the problem??

They came up with a great combination of fundamentals and drills to test your ability.

They offered this information for free!

If you want to get a Diploma - more power to you. (I've spent $200 on worse things)

* I do not have and do not plan on getting a Diploma but I feel the information helps develop and measure ability.
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Agreed! Well put.
 
sfleinen said:
Why are you wasting your time with this? You don't even want this product (afterall, "it didn't come from CJ"), yet you are here b*tching and whining about the cost of it.

I honestly don't get where people place priorities in their lives. Do you really have all this time on your hands to b*tch and whine about something that you don't even want, for the sheer "15 minutes of fame" of it? Or, is it an extremist signpost that you can cling to, just so you have a clearly-defined side that you can point a finger from, and say to folks, "There -- you see over there? That's the enemy. Attack!"

Extremists -- they come in all forms. And they all want one thing -- a signpost to cling to, so they can feel important and say "these are my homies; I actually belong somewhere!"

-Sean
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That reminds me...I don't like onions. Actually I don't mind onions so much, I think they're good for the body, but the supermarkets selling them for £1.50...man I hate those guys. So much so I'm contemplating starting a thread on here about them. What really pisses me off is the fact they claim to be a supermarket and yet, there is nothing super about them. They're misleading the people, Sean...just think of the PEOPLE!!

Just kidding, oinions are awesome :)
 
Pidge said:
That reminds me...I don't like onions. Actually I don't mind onions so much, I think they're good for the body, but the supermarkets selling them for £1.50...man I hate those guys. So much so I'm contemplating starting a thread on here about them. What really pisses me off is the fact they claim to be a supermarket and yet, there is nothing super about them. They're misleading the people, Sean...just think of the PEOPLE!!

Just kidding, oinions are awesome :)
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Depends on what you mean by "onions" and "people," Pidge. For example, in NYC, we have what we call the "onion people" that you commonly see on the streets and riding in the subway. They are called that, because when you sit next to one (e.g. on the subway), your eyes start to sting and water. :eek: (Think, aroma.)

When I "just think of the people" (related to the onion theme), it doesn't bring back good memories. :p

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Depends on what you mean by "onions" and "people," Pidge. For example, in NYC, we have what we call the "onion people" that you commonly see on the streets and riding in the subway. They are called that, because when you sit next to one (e.g. on the subway), your eyes start to sting and water. :eek: (Think, aroma.)

When I "just think of the people" (related to the onion theme), it doesn't bring back good memories. :p

-Sean
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Haha oh, I had an interesting experience with an "onion person" when I visited NYC. After being approached for spare change he sparked up a conversation about landscape gardening of all things. Pushing back the tears from the "pong" (that means smell in these parts) I asked him how big his garden was. He replied that he lives in what ever doorway he can find, so the NYC sidewalks were his garden. I quickly got off the subway at the first opportunity and got lost in quite a shady part of town...

God I love New York!
 
dr_dave said:
I personally thought he should have preceded English many, many, many posts ago.

Here's an excerpt from one of my previous posts explaining why:

... what I didn't appreciate was the relentless negativity, criticism, nit-picking, and confrontation both from Elroy and "English!" (AKA Rick). I also didn't appreciate being called a "shyster and a fraud" in an emphatic and slanderous way. People that do that will no longer get my respect, nor will I respond to them in the future.

Honestly, I am surprised Rick was banned and Elroy was not. The amount of negativity, abuse, criticism, confrontation, disregard for forum etiquette, total lack of personal respect, and slander that Elroy dished out in this thread makes Rick look like a quiet and respectful angel (which he obviously is not).

Thank you in advance for helping to keep this forum a place that pool enthusiasts, instructors, authors, and players might want to continue to visit in the future.

Best regards,
Dave
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There is a method to the madness.

Just as I gave English opportunities to amend his ways, so too was Elroy.

Despite being warned, he opted to open his mouth yet again..and joined his buddy.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
There is a method to the madness.

Just as I gave English opportunities to amend his ways, so too was Elroy.

Despite being warned, he opted to open his mouth yet again..and joined his buddy.
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Thank you for trying your best to keep this a decent place to be. I know it must not be easy.

Best regards,
Dave
 
His Boy Elroy said:
There is nothing over at so- called billiard university for free except the Doc's previously published web writings. Besides that they sell 13 DVD's and there is a brochure that describes and details how to sign up for a three day teaching clinic next July.
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I said I wouldn't reply to this guy again; but since he is gone now, I'll respond to this post.

Everything viewable on the BU website that is not offered for purchase is free!

This includes:

- the BU Exams, including all of the well-illustrated exam drill diagrams, table setup instructions, video demonstrations, rectangle template, score sheets, historical log sheets, spreadsheet for automatic scoring and record keeping, etc.

- the BU Rating system and rating system comparison chart.

- online video demonstrations of all the entire BU examination, scoring, and rating process, along with free instructional clips concerning many of the required skills in the exams.

And for those who want to submit and document scores (and post videos if desired) without getting an official diploma, they can do so for free on the AZB BU thread. I look forward to seeing many more scores and videos posted.

Thanks again for everybody who showed support both in this thread and via PM. I appreciate it.

Best regards,
Dave
 
You have heard of suicide by cop, well here was suicide by Wilson.

Honestly I think this is what Elroy wanted.

Mr. Wilson said:
There is a method to the madness.

Just as I gave English opportunities to amend his ways, so too was Elroy.

Despite being warned, he opted to open his mouth yet again..and joined his buddy.
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Ghosst said:
Pathetic Shark = Tim, a bitter young Englishman
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Young? Cheers bud. I do have a youthful complexion, it must be said, but I am not young.
Bitter? Perhaps.

Quite why I get dragged into all this is anyone's guess, but a few things to keep everyone happy;

1. How many people on here have spent the $200? This is a good indicator of how successful the strategy has been.

2. Whilst Elroy was bang out of order calling Dr Dave a shyster and a fraud, I don't see why we can't question or offer an opinion on what is being sold on this site. Buyers deserve protection, too.

3. Debate is generally good for business.

4. Anonymity is a good thing for this site, and sites in general. It's the internet's greatest strength. Those who want rid of anonymity usually do so to further their own agendas.

I would like to say more on these issues but can't, for reasons that will be obvious to all.

PS there's no way Elroy was Champ. The idea of Champ espousing 'critical thinking skills' is rather amusing, however. :eek:
 
Pathetic Shark said:
4. Anonymity is a good thing for this site, and sites in general. It's the internet's greatest strength. Those who want rid of anonymity usually do so to further their own agendas.
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Also the internet's greatest weakness, because there is no responsibility.
 
I guess I will chime in on the topic.

Dr Dave has done a ton of good for pool. While I don't always agree with his stance and mockery of aiming systems and those who teach them I have consistently said that the whole body of Dave and his collaborator's work is great for pool. Really great.

Dave is a get-off-your-ass-and-do-something person. He has put out an immense body of knoweldge for free on youtube that has helped hundreds of thousands of people to not only play better pool but also to understand the physics of the game a little more.

The Billiard University project is another example of this work to improve the pool experience. Some one who wants to try it can have EVERYTHING that matters FOR FREE. Dave maintains a list of scores, verifies that the test was done correctly, has a list of participant videos etc...all the docs are available for free. Only the Diploma, which is a FUN thing and which does pay back the folks involved to a tiny degree as well as paying for the materials needed, costs something. But no one is forced to get it, there is no bait and switch or anything shady AT ALL in this.

So honestly, there is no grounds for criticism at all here. The original poster was trolling in my opinion. Maybe not in his and maybe it's an OCD thing.

Anyway, one of these days I will get around to doing the full test and then you guys can see that I play even worse than you thought. Then you will have something to criticize.

As for anonymity, it's a double edged sword. Can be used to expose wrongdoing and used to slander and defame. To say that anonymous writing is worthless is ludicrous and ignores the very type of writing that has changed the world through many revolutions sparked by anonymous authors who otherwise would have been silenced had their identity been known.
 
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