2011 Worlds 14.1 Championships DVD's

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
Hey Guys,

If anyone is interested in DVD's of the matches that were played on the TV table shoot me an email.... I am compiling a list of names and will pass it on to the appropriate parties !!!

stevekur141@optimum.net

This is still in the planning stages, will have more info as it comes available.


Thanks Everyone !
-Steve
 
Thanks for the PM's and emails guys.

Like i said, i am just generating a list. if there is enough interest in the DVDs then they will proceed....I Know i want a set :-)


Send me that email !!!

stevekur141@optimum.net

thanks
 
Hey,

I am still waiting to hear back from JR @ inside pool to try to get the ball rolling.

Right now I am just taking names so if you haven't already just shoot me an email and i'll add you on to the list.

Stevekur141@optimum.net

Thanks
Steve
 
you can email your list to info@insidepoolmag.com
depending on demand, they may make the effort to make the DVDs
thank you

Had you had AccuStats there like you did in the past this nonsense wouldnt be going on. "Depending on demand"? "They MAY make an effort to make the DVDs"? You got to be kidding.
You gonna call yourself the WORLD Championships please act like one.

Keone
 
How much effort does it take to burn a DVD?

Al:

Unfortunately, that's not the point. Dragon Promotions "cheaped out" on this one, and this is an example of "you get what you pay for." Accu-Stats is the well-known platinum standard when it comes to live streaming, and most importantly, permanent pressing / archival / sales of these recorded events, ensuring these events are preserved for future generations. Compare that to the road that DP chose, which is the aluminum foil standard.

When you have "World Alvin" (Alvin Nelson) commentating on a 14.1 match -- when he's known for yapping about everything except the match at hand, as well as poking fun at foreign players with a fake (and stupid) Arnold Schwarzenegger accent -- you know you've been rummaging in the bargain bin when it comes to the selection of an event broadcasting/archival outfit.

Personally, with the message that DP News posted (above), I don't think any DVDs are going to be made. This will just have to be one of those "chalk it up and hope the next incarnation of this event is better" things. If the next event is hopefully done with Accu-Stats, unfortunately it will then illustrate (glaringly) we have a gap in our sport's world championship modern video history where one year (2011) looks like it never happened.

-Sean
 
Burning DVDs is the easy part. If there isn't enough demand, its not worth the post production effort.


LOL, like the post production effort put in last time when they had to sell the entire set for 5 bucks. Ya know the one where you hear Eberle peeing in the bathroom cause no one took the time to edit that out.

Not exactly the best editing effort on that set. :killingme:
 
In the past it was easy to film for Accu-Stats when it was held in Accu-Stats home arena inside a poolroom.
An attempt was made to work a deal with Accu-Stats again but it was not financially feasible as it would costs several thousands of dollars in additional expenses, where DP prefer to put that money towards the actual event and prize money for the professional players and host in a nice hotel venue.

DP makes no profit from any of the Accu-Stats sales
 
A different view.

In the past it was easy to film for Accu-Stats when it was held in Accu-Stats home arena inside a poolroom.
An attempt was made to work a deal with Accu-Stats again but it was not financially feasible as it would costs several thousands of dollars in additional expenses, where DP prefer to put that money towards the actual event and prize money for the professional players and host in a nice hotel venue.

DP makes no profit from any of the Accu-Stats sales

Whether this is Charlie, Cindy, or Sally or any of the Dragon team you have absolutely nothing to answer for in this situation. The event was incredibly professional and top caliber and it is as it has always been the true world 14.1 championship. It was an honor to play take photographs for and be a part of this event in any way possible and i hope to do so again and again.

It is very easy for people to sit back and critique when they have never been in your shoes. Running tournaments leagues etc is a thankless job and it seems as though everything you do is wrong all the time to everyone. Well you know what this event was amazing and I for one as a player in the event am thrilled to hear that although yes accu stats is great that the money was given to the players instead. It is my opinion that JR and Alvin do a fantastic job and again that is my opinion. Just like it is my opinion that after about a half hour of listening to Danny D talk about banks and kentucky etc i want to fall asleep. It literally seems as though it takes every trick in Jimmy Weich's arsenal to get him to talk about the match at hand so I think the comments made about Alvin were a little much when you use this standard to compare it to as everyone seems to do.

I was going to stay quiet on this but I can't anymore. If that upsets or pisses some people off than so be it but as I said Dragon and their team did a phenomenal job this year and the host venue was incredible. Aside from the hurricane which Im sure some of you think is dragon's fault also lol everything in my opinion ran very well and very organized.
 
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In the past it was easy to film for Accu-Stats when it was held in Accu-Stats home arena inside a poolroom.
An attempt was made to work a deal with Accu-Stats again but it was not financially feasible as it would costs several thousands of dollars in additional expenses, where DP prefer to put that money towards the actual event and prize money for the professional players and host in a nice hotel venue.

DP makes no profit from any of the Accu-Stats sales

DP makes "profit" when it shows its a first class operation. But when it comes on a forum and says they "MAY" make one. It sounds classless and uncaring for the fans of 14.1 who could not attend.

By the way did you see the free stream that Pat Fleming and crew did for AZ Billiards at Turning Stone? A streamlined effort but very top notch.

And so when DP is able to use Accu-Stats own arena everything is fine? But when it goes somewhere else its goodbye?

More effort could have been done in this area. Pat Fleming has taken his crew across this country and have made deals with every promoter at a risk for his own bankroll. Ask Barry Berhman.

14.1 people are a special breed. They are not watching a match for simple entertainment but finding the mysteries of the game. The science of it if you will. So repetitive viewing is a priority. A good solid DVD set would be fitting for a world class event. True the promoters get no immediate benefits. The players might get a pittance. But pool in the long run gets rich rewards and by that we all benefit.
 
"If that upsets or pisses some people off than so be it"

No one is upset or pissed off here except maybe you. I think DP needs to do a better job here. I have always said that DP doing this tournament is a wonderful endeavor and we should be very lucky that we live in these times to experience it.
But there are corrections that can be made that can improve future events. As a fan of straight pool I am hoping that in the future quality recordings will be made of the event. Particularly for those of us who live over 3000 miles away from the tournament venue.
As for Danny D not suiting your taste. Well thats subjective on your part. For one thing he is a former Champion and played with every master of the game for at least 6 decades. In tournament play and for the cash. Take a listen to the 2008 AccuStats 14.1 Invitational or the past 2 years of the Predator/DP Worlds 14.1 events. I think if you were a reasonable person you would admit there is a load of information that is very useful to a student of the game. You dont have to take it from me. Just listen to Stefan Cohen who claims that Danny D was the reason for his success. More people should be open to his opinions.
 
Videos

I certainly am interested in this topic, but I do not want to bash any of the people who promote straight pool and bring these great events and even great dvds to us.

Before this years event, I was talking to Danny D. who thought they were doing the event. He called me when they did not get it and asked me to call Charlie because it was something Pat and Danny really wanted to do. Charlie said they could not afford it , but they would do something with video.

As I said in an earlier post, DP found the set-up price Pat required to be prohibitive. The prior two years the tournament had been held at Pat's house pool room where he was already set up, so that cost was not needed. When they decided to hold the event in the hotel, that changed things, just like the other two times they had it in a hotel and Accu-stats was not there.

Anyway, Charlie said that they would do something and I think Inside Pool did a very good job. The guest commentators were sort of pot luck and I have yet to hear them all, but some were very good. I was in the booth with J.R. Calvert for two of the matches and was very impressed with his knowledge of 14.1 and his commentating skills.

I certainly would like to have videos of all the matches to watch at my leisure and perhaps over and over again for some of the matches. I asked J.R. on the air if the videos were going to be downloadable and he said yes. Since the event, I have left him voice mails, personal messages and emails and I understand he is very busy doing other events but I have yet to hear back.

If they would just make the videos on youtube downloadable at some point, many of our complaints would fade. I left messages that I would love the option to buy rather than rent the games, but nothing so far.

If anyone has any pull with J.R. Calvert, can they see if he would make these available for us, either for sale, or for free download some time in the future when the novelty has worn out and they are just sitting out there in limbo?
 
Thanks for your reply Dennis. Let this be my last take on this subject and explain why I am so disappointed there are no DVDs available and DPs attitude of recording of this historical event.

If you take the time to watch Thorsten Hohmann's Player review on his 112 ball run at the 2008 AccuStats 14.1 invitational, Danny D asks Thorsten what he thought about American players in the past. Thorsten talks about how fortunate he was as a young boy living in Germany to view Steve Mizerak on AccuStat tapes.

People talk about pools inability to get its proper recognition. My feeling is that education is the key. People just dont know how difficult this game is. Danny D told me that he excelled in 4 sports. Bowling, Boxing, Baseball, and Billiards. His contention is that Pocket Billiards was the hardest and that the ordinary person does not understand the complexity of the game.
Thus not understanding the beauty of the game. With live streaming and recordings its getting better.

Ill be the first to congratulate DP for their succesful and brave production of a fine 14.1 tournament. However if they look further there might be riches untold. Riches in developing a following for DP, the players, and the game itself.

Keone
 
Long post WARNING

yobagua:

I would have to agree. Let me take the opportunity to explain a couple things as well, so that folks know where I'm coming from in my especially "pointed" point of view when it comes to DP's selection of broadcasting / live streaming vendor:

1. Answering Charlie's assertion that those of us critical of DP's decision have no experience in such matters, or are just "Monday night armchair quarterbacking," is not 100% correct. For one, it's not applicable to me. I used to be the League Operator of the Danbury branch of the Boston Billiards poolhall chain, before that branch closed-down in early 2009. I did this job for 3 and a half years. What was unique about this LO job, was the fact the location was also a periodic stop on several professional tours (e.g. Joss, ESPN Challenge of Champions). It was *my* job as LO, in partnership with the branch manager and one other LO, to set everything up (and I mean everything) to make sure these events went off without a hitch. Is this exactly on-par with a World Championship? Probably not. Are there many similarities and many of the same types of administrative worries and deadlines and bust-yer-*ss all-nighter tasks that go into it? You betcha. So I know what goes into making one of these events go off. I did it for 3 and a half years, like I said.

2. My distaste for one particular commentator (Alvin) on the chosen broadcasting team actually echoes many outside of our 14.1 discipline -- i.e. those of us who watch rotation matches. While those not familiar with IP's live streaming background (i.e. those here who may've seen IP's production for the first time with the 14.1 Worlds) may think some of my comments came from Pluto, I assure you, all you have to do is look for *any* IP live stream (e.g. on YouTube) where a foreign player -- especially of Germanic or Slavic descent -- is playing, and you'll hear what I'm talking about with that particular commentator. As someone who's extensively traveled the world (as I have, both in the military as well as with post-military employers), I don't have to explain how someone like that appears to the rest of the world. It would appear as if, "other than that only complaint, all should be well." The problem is how *much* of a black mark that one aspect places on the production as a whole. To be fair, other commentators like JR Calvert himself is actually very, very good -- professional caliber, and the man certainly knows the game of 14.1. He's also got a nice "microphone personality."

3. In our cheerleading, we all like to talk about professional production, giving to the sport, etc. But one thing I think we're all missing, is the preservation aspect of our sport. For other games like the rotation games (e.g. 9-ball), it's common fare to just broadcast the event as a one-time thing, and that's sufficient. Maybe put archives of the matches out on YouTube for between $0.99 and $2.99 rental for some of the more higher profile matches / players. But I think we can all agree that those disciplines (i.e. 9-ball) are not the type of disciplines, like 14.1, where one STUDIES match play intently, over a long period of time. One watches 9-ball for the entertainment aspect of it -- e.g. "wow, look at that nice 5-pack he just laid down!" and then after that, the novelty is gone. Here, the selection of a "broadcast it and it's gone" media makes sense. However, in 14.1, the matches and match play itself are TIMELESS. As an example, how many of us still study certain 14.1 matches, like, oh, Mike Sigel's 150-and-out against Mike Zuglan in the 1992 14.1 US Open? I still do. Or Oliver Ortmann's grind-it-out win against Jim Rempe in the 2000 U.S. Open 14.1 Championship? I still do. That's where yobagua's comments about Thorsten growing up on Accu-Stats matches are dead-on -- these players owe their proficiency (and their dedication) to our sport precisely because the matches were preserved for antiquity. The problem many of us have with DP's choice of broadcaster / live coverage is precisely because it's the "9-ball way of thinking." This is not 9-ball. This is 14.1. BIG difference in the need to preserve these events for future generations.

4. All this goes hand-in-hand with the irony of CW/DP's desire to "preserve the sport of 14.1" -- i.e. the decision to short-change the preservation of the matches themselves, so that the event can take place in a lavish hotel. While the "now" aspect of that decision is nice -- i.e. while being there and attending the event in a nice hotel does have that "this is really cool" factor as you're looking around the beautiful surroundings, it does nothing for the preservation of the event itself. I don't know about you, but while watching recorded matches, I see almost nothing of the venue in those recorded matches. And to be quite honest? As I'm watching the recorded match, I don't care about the venue. I care more about the quality of the equipment, the quality of the preservation/recording, the quality of the commentators, and the general quality of the production itself. Don't get me wrong, I *do* care if the venue itself gave something to the event, i.e. sponsorship monies, etc. -- e.g. as was the case with Blatt Billiards and the hotels in the older 14.1 events. But this is not the case with this one. Instead, monies were taken away from the preservation aspect, just so the event can take place in a nice hotel. I stand by my belief that this was a very short-sighted decision, especially in light of the desire of the promoter to "preserve the sport" and "keep the flame alive."

All in all, it's not a case of "bashing" the promoter. It *is* a question of very pointedly shining a spotlight on the short-sightedness of a key decision made, made in stark contrast to the promoter's very-obvious intent to preserve our wonderful sport in the first place. And yes, I may've been a little over the top in my description of one of the commentators commonly used by the hired broadcasting firm. While the particular characteristics / known behaviors of that commentator are true (like I said, I submit to you to view any of the aforementioned YouTube matches to see it for yourself), I do apologize if this degraded the value of my spotlight on the decision.

Anyway, I've said my peace on this topic, and I hope it does as it was intended -- to shine a spotlight, and make it a memory for next year's event decisions.

-Sean
 
Anyway, Charlie said that they would do something and I think Inside Pool did a very good job. The guest commentators were sort of pot luck and I have yet to hear them all, but some were very good. I was in the booth with J.R. Calvert for two of the matches and was very impressed with his knowledge of 14.1 and his commentating skills.

I certainly would like to have videos of all the matches to watch at my leisure and perhaps over and over again for some of the matches. I asked J.R. on the air if the videos were going to be downloadable and he said yes. Since the event, I have left him voice mails, personal messages and emails and I understand he is very busy doing other events but I have yet to hear back.

If they would just make the videos on youtube downloadable at some point, many of our complaints would fade. I left messages that I would love the option to buy rather than rent the games, but nothing so far.

If anyone has any pull with J.R. Calvert, can they see if he would make these available for us, either for sale, or for free download some time in the future when the novelty has worn out and they are just sitting out there in limbo?

Just a little bump with a bit of an update.

I listened to part 1 of the match between Thorsten and Davis and was blown away by the quality of the commentators. This match paired J.R. Calvert and George Fels. I have to say that their commentary on this video is in my opinion the best I have ever heard for straight pool. They go into such great detail on the patterns throughout the match. In addition, George is able to talk about the legends of the past and what they might have done. J.R. draws from his own playing days and demonstrates a very keen understanding of the game. Very educational.

Afterwards, I exchanged a few emails with J.R. and he ended the last one, saying I may have swayed him towards making dvds available. Nothing certain but at least a move in the right direction. If anyone else wants to give him their 2 cents worth, he can be reached at jrcue@aol.com.


p.s. Part two of the finals is not done yet and may be up next week.
 
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I certainly am interested in this topic, but I do not want to bash any of the people who promote straight pool and bring these great events and even great dvds to us.

Before this years event, I was talking to Danny D. who thought they were doing the event. He called me when they did not get it and asked me to call Charlie because it was something Pat and Danny really wanted to do. Charlie said they could not afford it , but they would do something with video.

As I said in an earlier post, DP found the set-up price Pat required to be prohibitive. The prior two years the tournament had been held at Pat's house pool room where he was already set up, so that cost was not needed. When they decided to hold the event in the hotel, that changed things, just like the other two times they had it in a hotel and Accu-stats was not there.

Anyway, Charlie said that they would do something and I think Inside Pool did a very good job. The guest commentators were sort of pot luck and I have yet to hear them all, but some were very good. I was in the booth with J.R. Calvert for two of the matches and was very impressed with his knowledge of 14.1 and his commentating skills.

I certainly would like to have videos of all the matches to watch at my leisure and perhaps over and over again for some of the matches. I asked J.R. on the air if the videos were going to be downloadable and he said yes. Since the event, I have left him voice mails, personal messages and emails and I understand he is very busy doing other events but I have yet to hear back.

If they would just make the videos on youtube downloadable at some point, many of our complaints would fade. I left messages that I would love the option to buy rather than rent the games, but nothing so far.

If anyone has any pull with J.R. Calvert, can they see if he would make these available for us, either for sale, or for free download some time in the future when the novelty has worn out and they are just sitting out there in limbo?

I agree, I don't think anybody is bashing the promoters of the tournament. We just wish they would find a way for us to get a permanent copy of the matches.
 
Thats awesome news! Thanks Dennis and others for pushing the envelope forward to getting DVDs

Just a little bump with a bit of an update.

I listened to part 1 of the match between Thorsten and Davis and was blown away by the quality of the commentators. This match paired J.R. Calvert and George Fels. I have to say that their commentary on this video is in my opinion the best I have ever heard for straight pool. They go into such great detail on the patterns throughout the match. In addition, George is able to talk about the legends of the past and what they might have done. J.R. draws from his own playing days and demonstrates a very keen understanding of the game. Very educational.

Afterwards, I exchanged a few emails with J.R. and he ended the last one, saying I may have swayed him towards making dvds available. Nothing certain but at least a move in the right direction. If anyone else wants to give him their 2 cents worth, he can be reached at jrcue@aol.com.


p.s. Part two of the finals is not done yet and may be up next week.
 
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