2016 BCAPL Payouts

[HoustonInt]

In addition to the many Fargo discussions, I've also heard a lot of forum, Facebook and local talk about low payouts at the BCAPL so I decided to take a look at the numbers publicly available. Based on the numbers that I see, roughly $650k of entry fees were collected and $425k of that was paid out in prize money. Data comes from the CSI website, brackets and entry form information.

I know there are numerous expenses in putting on an event of this magnitude but I found paying out 65% of the entry fees interesting.

 

[ibtsoom]

Greens Fees

Does this chart account for green fees?

 

[Race2-9]

payout

I know that with each tournament now days, the question always comes up ...... they took in how much and paid out how much ...... please consider a few other expenses that come from that money i.e. table cost, staff cost, possibly tournament room rental, advertising, these are just a few costs I notice often aren't taken into consideration.
Just my observations...... personally I could care less, I enter the tournament and if I play well enough I break even (not often any more) but I can't expect anyone to hold a tournament with full expectation that someone is going to look to see where every penny went and actually think there's an answer coming.
As I said probably no business of mine just off on a rant!

 

[cleary]

Looking forward to the parade of ignorant posts saying "if you don't like it, make your own tournament". They're my fav!

 

[randyg]

Yes I agree. I just don't see were you adjusted for our Green Fees.

Best Tournament in the World. Too bad it's no longer an amateur event.

randyg

 

[cleary]

If CSI/BCAPL was smart they would would cut out about half of these tournaments and group them together.

- Handicapped Mixed 8ball $50k 1st pace
- Handicapped Mixed 9ball $50k 1st place
- Handicapped Mixed scotch doubles 8ball $50k 1st place
- Handicapped Mixed teams $100k first

Handicapped based on their fargo rating, which changes after every match. You group everyone into bigger tournaments, so 1st place money is very large.

I think they would get much more players showing up with those numbers, they could payout the same amounts in total and the winners really win big.

 

[BRussell]

I hope they get rich putting this on and running the leagues, but I know they don't. One of the problems in pool is people expecting anyone involved in running leagues or tournaments to "add money" i.e., lose a bunch of money, and definitely not make any money. Not saying anyone in this thread is saying that, at least not yet, but it's usually how these things go. We should hope that people who run these things make a ton of money so more and more people do them!

 

[oneballeddie]

Does this chart account for green fees?

If not mistaken I think the green fee was included in the entry fee. There was a $25 registration fee for players to get a new card. Don't know if league players had to pay again or not.

I think a more concerning stat would be a reduction in participation. Not sure of the numbers here but it felt like it was down slightly. If so I would look to the costs of staying and eating at the Rio as issues rather than the prize fund payout ratio.

I have no problem with either the .65 payout ratio or the promoters making a bundle on these productions. All the better for everybody. As long as it is realized that the hefty pro event payouts are funded by these amateur events. I wonder if the pros appreciate that? I do however have a problem with tournaments that advertise "added money" when the truth is subtracted money.

 

[Rusty C]

I hope they get rich putting this on and running the leagues, but I know they don't. One of the problems in pool is people expecting anyone involved in running leagues or tournaments to "add money" i.e., lose a bunch of money, and definitely not make any money. Not saying anyone in this thread is saying that, at least not yet, but it's usually how these things go. We should hope that people who run these things make a ton of money so more and more people do them!

Nobody's saying that the people running the leagues shouldn't make money,there's other ways of making it instead of taking out of the entry fees.I don't know about other states but in Texas its illegal for the house to take a cut of the prize pool.

 

[Celtic]

I think a more concerning stat would be a reduction in participation. Not sure of the numbers here but it felt like it was down slightly. If so I would look to the costs of staying and eating at the Rio as issues rather than the prize fund payout ratio.

Most of the people I know who bailed on the event did so because of the change in the time of the year. Spring worked on a lot of levels for a lot of people, the heart of summer does not.

 

[cardiac kid]

Houston,

Your chart does not account for two factors. One, the greens fee for each player which is roughly $25. Second, it does not account for the $15 per player CSI deducts for the non-refundable registration fee. Pretty sure those fees are listed somewhere on the entry forms. At least they used to list them. Everything seems to have changed in the last couple of years.

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

If not mistaken I think the green fee was included in the entry fee. There was a $25 registration fee for players to get a new card. Don't know if league players had to pay again or not.

Only those players who were not active league members had to pay the extra $25. All league players already paid $15 each.

Lyn

 

[cleary]

Houston,

Your chart does not account for two factors. One, the greens fee for each player which is roughly $25. Second, it does not account for the $15 per player CSI deducts for the non-refundable registration fee. Pretty sure those fees are listed somewhere on the entry forms. At least they used to list them. Everything seems to have changed in the last couple of years.

Lyn

Just so everyone is keeping score at home:

3494 players x $25 registration = $87,350
3494 players x $15 green fee = $52,410

 

[calcuttaman]

3494 players x $25 registration = $87,350
3494 players x $15 green fee = $52,410

Scotch Doubles
3. Entry fees include $15 registration fee per team and $15 green fee per player.

Mixed Singles
3. Entry fees include $15 registration fee and $35 green fee.

9-Ball Teams
2. Entry fees include $25 registration fee per team and $25 green fee per player.

Mixed 8-Ball Teams
3. Entry fees include $25 registration fee per team and $35 green fee per player.

I don't have a copy of the Women's team entry form but assume its the same numbers as the mixed.

I do hope they cap the green's fee's at 5 team members.

 

[saint1]

Vegas

Don't forget all the income from all the vendors renting space. CSI says they have 500 leagues. X $15.00 per player, that's a lot of bucks.

 

[cardiac kid]

Don't forget all the income from all the vendors renting space. CSI says they have 500 leagues. X $15.00 per player, that's a lot of bucks.

That's roughly 66,000 players times $15. 5% attend the Vegas event.

Lyn

 

[sbpoolleague]

In addition to the many Fargo discussions, I've also heard a lot of forum, Facebook and local talk about low payouts at the BCAPL so I decided to take a look at the numbers publicly available. Based on the numbers that I see, roughly $650k of entry fees were collected and $425k of that was paid out in prize money. Data comes from the CSI website, brackets and entry form information.

I know there are numerous expenses in putting on an event of this magnitude but I found paying out 65% of the entry fees interesting.

$200K of that "entry fee" is greens fee that goes to the promoter. So the payout is not 65%. Its over 90%. When I have time I will gather data from the last 8 years to see how total payouts have changed.

And BCAPL membership fees have nothing to do with this. CSI has to rent an office, pay full time staff, etc etc. I don't know how.they do it with so little money.

 

[cleary]

I don't know how.they do it with so little money.

lol I know. How do they do it?

 

[cardiac kid]

And BCAPL membership fees have nothing to do with this. CSI has to rent an office, pay full time staff, etc etc. I don't know how.they do it with so little money.

Think roughly 66,000 BCAPL members this year times $15 per person sanction fee yields about $990,000 for operating expenses. How about income from USAPL? Do they charge a player sanction fee as well? I would say CSI is reasonably well financed.

For what I pay in to BCAPL, think my $30 in sanction fees are well worth it. The on-line resources, on-line registration without extra fees for credit cards, the on-line Leaguesys data entry system and other smaller but just as important services. Excellent value for the dollar.

Lyn

 

[watchez]

Add a column that says net payout. I feel the percentage should be the same across the board.