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- Thread starter runout1961
- Start date
Does Fury make just a break cue, or jump/break only, and which one are you referring to?
Thanks,
Rodney
Jump/breaks can be tricky. They seem to either break well and jump like crap or jump well and break like crap. It's hard to find one that breaks well and jumps well. There are some that are mediocre at both. I had a J&J, and it breaks well. Didn't jump very well though. I took an old Players cue I had sitting around, had a shaft turned down to 12mm, threw a Samsara tip on it, took the weight bolt out, and now I break with it. It breaks like a monster. Then I bought a Bunjee jump cue. That thing jumps 10x better than the J&J ever could.
Just something to think about.
Just something to think about.
See jemerson23's post for the Fury Break cue. That one doesn't break down.
This...
is the sickest break cue I have used. My buds can't stop borrowing it, and they have bk2's and cuetecs and a custom gilbert. Puts the poison I used to own to shame.
The Fury JBm2
It puts the Poison Break Cue to shame? That's pretty strong if that's what you're saying.
Freddie <~~~ need me to try one of them Fury Break Cues!!!!
Thanks, I'm a little dense sometimes, and I searched quickly, and only found the jump/break.
Rodney
Players 3pc Jump/Break.
Gotta get the one with the short black one piece ferrule/tip. Jumps like a beast for a $90 cue, and it breaks a ton.
I love it!!!
Gotta get the one with the short black one piece ferrule/tip. Jumps like a beast for a $90 cue, and it breaks a ton.
I love it!!!
the bunjee isn't as good. the 1 piece tip ferrule combo ruins the cue
Again, in your opinion. Tell that to Mike Gulyassy, he has been doing the 1pc ferrule/tip forever.
No shortage of opinions on this subject.
The ENTIRE THREAD is asking for people's opinion. Why do you keep saying this?
Personally I don't like J/B cues. They an exercise in compromise in general. Yes, that is my opinion.
If forced to choose one I would pick the J&J if price was a concern....if money were no object I am not sure what I would pick because I haven't tried the pricey ones.
Of course, again, it's my opinion.
The ENTIRE THREAD is asking for people's opinion. Why do you keep saying this?
Personally I don't like J/B cues. They an exercise in compromise in general. Yes, that is my opinion.
If forced to choose one I would pick the J&J if price was a concern....if money were no object I am not sure what I would pick because I haven't tried the pricey ones.
Of course, again, it's my opinion.
When someone says that something is the best PERFORMING cue in a factual manner then they aren't stating it as an opinion. PP said that the J&J is the best one period. That's a statement made as if it were a fact.
I realize that people don't care to make these distinctions anymore but still there are things which are facts and things which are opinions and there used to be a way to make a statement that indicated which was which.
As some one who is (was) intimately familiar with this subject since I ran around the world for six years selling jump cues and jump break cues I kind of bristle at statements like xx is the best because I know better having had them all and tested them all in my shop.
However I do know FOR A FACT that there are many jump cues that work better than the J&J, and many break cues that work better, and several break/jumps that work better. This is based on my testing and knowledge of how the cues are built as well as the testing of professionals I am associated with.
As an example at the recent Mixed Double Championship in China Fury brought six new break cues for Kelly Fisher to test out, each one slightly different, to get her professional opinion as to which one felt and performed the best.
The J&J by contrast is a Bunjee copy that has not changed since 1999. They don't care or need to innovate. They sell a cheap copy of what was a popular cue back then and continue to sell it based on price alone. It's decent, but far from "the best".
WELL IN MY OWN opinion the one piece ferrule tips are crap. I like a hard leather tip for a break cue. The reason being is that I break with some English, and with the phenolic tips 50% of the time will just miss cue. I had an omega j/b that did the job ok, but had the phenolic jobs on there, there’s not much about them that I like. I have a friend that has a fury j/b and I have used it a few times and I would just get a player’s j/b for ½ the money. I now break with a jacoby edge, and that thing breaks like a beast. I will spread the balls very nicely with and a good % of the time pocket one or four on the break. I have a friend that loved the bk2, and after a night of breaking with my cue he is now in the market of one. The jacoby edge you can get them on here new or used for around 175-200 (a little more than a fury but a lot more cue) the only thing is that it’s a break cue not a j/b. that’s just my .02
You are getting your own opinions confused with facts as usual. That you have a higher opinion of your opinion does not make it more factual.
But it's obvious you are just emotional about the whole copy thing. Of course, that's my opinion.
I am not emotional about it. And that's a fact.
Frankly, he was stating opinion, and it was obvious. Of course, that's just my opinion. Why get all bent out of shape simply because you don't like that opinion? That's a rhetorical question.
But it's obvious you are just emotional about the whole copy thing. Of course, that's my opinion.
I am not emotional about it.
And that's a fact. Frankly, he was stating opinion, and it was obvious. Of course, that's just my opinion. Why get all bent out of shape simply because you don't like that opinion? That's a rhetorical question.
I posted the testing done by Platinum Billiards. But that's not the whole story to what makes for a good break cue.
Let's say the JJ breaks the fastest in a machine or robot test, it doesn't make it the best in a person's hands.
One thing I dislike about most of these lower cost, one piece phenolic ferrule tip type break cues that have emerged in the last decade is that they have really thick, strong tapers. These things are worse than the worst house cues.
These super fat shafts and strong tapers slow my stroke down. There's just no bridging well with that. Have to bridge loose, and loose is BAD for many reasons, both for accuracy and speed, as accuracy helps increase power delivered into the rack. Energy transfer is lost for every tiny fraction of an inch off center you hit the rack.
But these kill good follow through for me. I prefer a long, thin taper within reason. That way, I can utilize a very long follow through. Having nearly unlimited follow through is a sort of "ok" to put everything you've got into the break. I'm hesitant to follow through as much with these tree trunk break cues because my fingers/joints get burned, yes burned, by the shaft rubbing against them so fast. That decreases *my* potential. The pool playing robot or machine doesn't care.
Now, if you can stroke that thing just as fast, more power to you. But I can't. I need a thinner cue to facilitate a more comfortable and CONTROLLED follow through. These thick break cues are also radically different from my playing cue. It's a good thing to have a break cue that isn't radically different in taper and dimension than your playing cue.
As you can see from the tests, there isn't a huge difference within the various groups of break cues (fast, medium, slow). As a player, your individual comfort or interaction with a break cue will make more of a difference in stroke speed than will the inherent speed of the break cue.
Say the Mezz PB2 is best. But the person can stroke a Cuetec faster. Guess what? That player will generate more MPH with the Cuetec.
There is one other factor here, and that's the fact that the BK2 is the only low deflection, purpose-built break cue out there. The BK2 will help get more energy into the rack if you hit slightly off center, as it will not deflect or squirt the CB off line as much. Resulting in a more square hit than with a high deflecting cue. Either way, the break will not be ideal or may still be botched, but it won't be as bad with the BK2.
Let's say the JJ breaks the fastest in a machine or robot test, it doesn't make it the best in a person's hands.
One thing I dislike about most of these lower cost, one piece phenolic ferrule tip type break cues that have emerged in the last decade is that they have really thick, strong tapers. These things are worse than the worst house cues.
These super fat shafts and strong tapers slow my stroke down. There's just no bridging well with that. Have to bridge loose, and loose is BAD for many reasons, both for accuracy and speed, as accuracy helps increase power delivered into the rack. Energy transfer is lost for every tiny fraction of an inch off center you hit the rack.
But these kill good follow through for me. I prefer a long, thin taper within reason. That way, I can utilize a very long follow through. Having nearly unlimited follow through is a sort of "ok" to put everything you've got into the break. I'm hesitant to follow through as much with these tree trunk break cues because my fingers/joints get burned, yes burned, by the shaft rubbing against them so fast. That decreases *my* potential. The pool playing robot or machine doesn't care.
Now, if you can stroke that thing just as fast, more power to you. But I can't. I need a thinner cue to facilitate a more comfortable and CONTROLLED follow through. These thick break cues are also radically different from my playing cue. It's a good thing to have a break cue that isn't radically different in taper and dimension than your playing cue.
As you can see from the tests, there isn't a huge difference within the various groups of break cues (fast, medium, slow). As a player, your individual comfort or interaction with a break cue will make more of a difference in stroke speed than will the inherent speed of the break cue.
Say the Mezz PB2 is best. But the person can stroke a Cuetec faster. Guess what? That player will generate more MPH with the Cuetec.
There is one other factor here, and that's the fact that the BK2 is the only low deflection, purpose-built break cue out there. The BK2 will help get more energy into the rack if you hit slightly off center, as it will not deflect or squirt the CB off line as much. Resulting in a more square hit than with a high deflecting cue. Either way, the break will not be ideal or may still be botched, but it won't be as bad with the BK2.
Jacoby edge is a full laminated butt and shaft break cue. would that also be a low deflection cue?
Lamination has nothing to do with whether a cue is low deflection.
Predator started that for the purpose of radial consistency, not for purposes of deflection.
Methods used to achieve low deflection are those which lower the mass of the shaft near the tip or end of the shaft. Could take a standard maple shaft, drill it out, use a thin lightweight ferrule, and also minimize the tip, ferrule and shaft diameter and it will be a low deflection shaft. All without being laminated.
Predator is the best in that regard, because what they do is hollow out the front end of the shaft. Since nothing used in cue construction is lighter than air, there's nothing the others can do to get lower deflection.
Competitors are forced to use foam, carbon fiber, balsa and other materials to not violate Predator's patent.
They get close though. Some do this by putting a super lightweight foam in the shaft. It's heavier than air, but not by much. They make up a lot of the difference by not using a ferrule (like OB), since most ferrule materials are heavier than maple. All the competitors have their own techniques to lower deflection, but none of them have achieved the low deflection that Predator has. I don't think they will be able to, until they do can legally use air (a completely hollow bore) when Predator's patent expires.
Slim Limpy
New member
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I can't answer that. The thick and strong taper is what is believed to help the cue be more efficient in transferring energy to the CB.
It comes down to this:
1. On that specific cue, will having the shaft taken down decrease that cue's "speed" for breaking?
If it does, then:
2. Will you be able to stroke that thing faster, more freely or more accurately to a degree which makes up for and exceeds any loss in the break cue's power? In other words, you have to net more speed out of it.
If it doesn't harm the break power of the cue, then you can only gain from doing that, not lose anything.
I'm not entirely convinced that thick is necessarily a good thing. Check out the Platinum Billiards chart I posted in this thread. The Meucci is fairly high rated.
I remember when I first saw that chart. It confirmed something I've always experienced but was criticized for saying in the pool room. I never thought Meucci was great, but I couldn't help but recognize that whenever I'd break with the Meucci sneaky pete I had, it was always a pretty explosive break. If thick and stiff was better, then thin and whippy should be worse. But that wasn't the case.
There's various schools of thought and I don't know what is true and what is false. Some think thicker and stiffer is better, some believe a little flex adds power. Maybe I broke great with the Meucci because it's thin long taper allowed for an easy long follow through? Then again, the mechanical tests done by Platinum don't care about that ergonomics issue. It just tests raw break speed.
For me, ideally, it's best to break with my playing cue. It's what I stroke all the time. Most familiar with its taper, it's balance, it's feel and all those things. There's something to be said about having an intimate knowledge of the unique feel of a particular cue. But the playing cue gives up speed to those with phenolic tips. I stick with a break cue as a result, but want it to be close to my playing cue. In my opinion, these tree trunk break cues feel radically different from my playing cue. The grip, the thickness, the balance, the taper...I can deal with some difference obviously as it is a break cue. But those are way different. If anything, it's probably better if the break cue is even easier to follow through with than the playing cue. That is, if you to accept differences as a concession.
According to the chart, there's in many cases less than 1/2 mph separating a dozen cues. With that small of a difference, the cue which the user can best stroke the fastest with accuracy will be the most powerful. And again, in order to get the fastest possible break stroke, you have to be completely free from any restriction, both physical and mental, in your stroke AND follow-through.
That's worth more than say, a 0.5 mph edge. But only you can decide what you value. It's a very personal choice.
I definitely would not say it is the only one. Are you really sure, OB, Fury, Jacoby, Poison (i know owned by predator, but not a BK), Tiger, Cuetec, Mezz, Lucasi and McDermott don't have one? A quick search on google, turns up the OB break is LD.
Also that chart you posted is pretty old if I recall. Lot of new breakers out since then.
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