3 foul question
- Thread starter enzo
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Tell him he is on two before you play number three
that is a nice thought but i thought i read somewhere that "you must tell the incoming player (i assume this means incoming inning) he is on two." in other words, the way i read the rule it seemed to state that technically you must tell him as he approaches the table on that potential 3rd foul inning.
As soon as the player shoots and commits his second faul tell him he`s on 2.I think the rule only states you have to tell him he`s on 2 before he shoots his 3rd shot not after you hook him the 3rd time and before he shoots his 3rd shot,I could be wrong but thats the way I`ve always seen it and done it.
In that case, you jab him quickly
Before he has a chance to stand up. Knock him to the floor, step on his throat, and say, "that's 3 fouls, game over. ""
First, you tell them they are on 2 right after the 2nd foul. Then after you hook them, remind them again. If it's a blatant attempt by them to keep you from telling them, I'd still argue the point about it being loss of game, since you had told them once.
Before he has a chance to stand up. Knock him to the floor, step on his throat, and say, "that's 3 fouls, game over. ""
First, you tell them they are on 2 right after the 2nd foul. Then after you hook them, remind them again. If it's a blatant attempt by them to keep you from telling them, I'd still argue the point about it being loss of game, since you had told them once.
ok, thanks all those are great replys with respct to how to avoid or stopo this from happening, but more to the point..... what if this DID happen, how would you rule on it (eg if you were a TD). dont mean to bias anybody, but i think youd have to give it to the flagrant party (the guy who jabbed the cb quickly).
ok, but if you can picture this (i may have explained it bad before)..... you execute your third safety, right....... you're about to walk back to him and tell him, and meanwhile say from his chair he leans over with the butt of his cue in his hand and taps the cb.
now, did you get him on 3?? see my question?? it is kinda hard to put into words.
I usually say "you're on 3" as I'm standing back up from my shot. I've played against a lot of shady characters and have never had one quickly tap the cueball before I can say anything. I think in most poolrooms it would be considered cheating and the 3 fouls count.
I think that move would get your ass kicked, no matter where you are.
That's obviously unsportsmanlike conduct, and loss of game. And most likely, an ass-kicking.
A 2nd offense would be loss of match....and probably yet another ass-kicking.
This isn't the official tournament rule, but in most pool rooms, if you tell someone they're on 2 after their second foul, you're covered. (And that's as it should be, imo)
Just remember, if somehow he hit the cue ball before you told him, he is STILL on two and you have ball in hand again. You can now put him in an even worse spot. But this time tell him he's on TWO before you shoot. And you'll know better next time. The posters who said you can tell your opponent they're on two after the second foul are correct. You do not have to wait.
Quick official BCAPL reply
I don't have to check with the office on this one...
UC of the worst sort. Immediate loss of game followed by an immediate trip to the principal's office. I would say TD, but that sort of childish behavior rates something different.
More details on the timing of the warning in a few hours when I get home..
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
I don't have to check with the office on this one...
UC of the worst sort. Immediate loss of game followed by an immediate trip to the principal's office. I would say TD, but that sort of childish behavior rates something different.
More details on the timing of the warning in a few hours when I get home..Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
The World Standardized Rules changed and now require you to tell the person he's on two AFTER you play your shot. So telling him right when he gets on his second foul doesn't count as warning him anymore. Personally, I totally disagree with that rule change but unfortunately that's the way it is now if question is for WPA rules.
6.14 Three Consecutive Fouls
If a player fouls three times without making an intervening legal shot, it is a serious foul. In games scored by the rack, such as nine ball, the fouls must be in a single rack. Some games such as eight ball do not include this rule.
The referee must warn a shooter who is on two fouls when he comes to the table that he is on two fouls. Otherwise a possible third foul will be considered to be only the second.
If a player fouls three times without making an intervening legal shot, it is a serious foul. In games scored by the rack, such as nine ball, the fouls must be in a single rack. Some games such as eight ball do not include this rule.
The referee must warn a shooter who is on two fouls when he comes to the table that he is on two fouls. Otherwise a possible third foul will be considered to be only the second.
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Final Official BCAPL response
UC, as stated in previous post.
The only possible way I would not rule it as UC would be if the offending player could convince me that they executed the large majority of their shots during the match in the same manner as they did when attempting to dodge the third foul warning. NOT likley. Therefore, the only reasonable explantation for the method of executing the shot in question is to intentionally short-circuit the warning process, which equals UC.
The timing of the "on two" warning has indeed been moved to the beginning of the "on two" players inning. To avoid rehashing it here, please see the discussion at:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=128491
In a nutshell, there could be circumstances (most likely a very long 14.1 inning) that could reaslistically cause a long enough period for a player to forget that the warning had been issued. While not so likely in 9-ball, when it comes to processes such as these that apply to more than one game, the decision-makers are not big on having different processes for different games.
Thus the new timing for the warning in WPA rules. The next edition of the BCAPL rules will follow suit.
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee (WOW!! very humbled to be promoted :grin: )
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net
Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rul...2/Default.aspx
* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.4.3 and 9.4.4 apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* There is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules". The BCA does not edit nor is responsible for the content of the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
UC, as stated in previous post.
The only possible way I would not rule it as UC would be if the offending player could convince me that they executed the large majority of their shots during the match in the same manner as they did when attempting to dodge the third foul warning. NOT likley. Therefore, the only reasonable explantation for the method of executing the shot in question is to intentionally short-circuit the warning process, which equals UC.
The timing of the "on two" warning has indeed been moved to the beginning of the "on two" players inning. To avoid rehashing it here, please see the discussion at:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=128491
In a nutshell, there could be circumstances (most likely a very long 14.1 inning) that could reaslistically cause a long enough period for a player to forget that the warning had been issued. While not so likely in 9-ball, when it comes to processes such as these that apply to more than one game, the decision-makers are not big on having different processes for different games.
Thus the new timing for the warning in WPA rules. The next edition of the BCAPL rules will follow suit.
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee (WOW!! very humbled to be promoted :grin: )
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net
Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rul...2/Default.aspx
* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.4.3 and 9.4.4 apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* There is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules". The BCA does not edit nor is responsible for the content of the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
The wording of rule 6.14 assumes the match is being overseen by a referee. If it is also up to the player to warn his opponent just before the opponents third potential foul, I also disagree. It just seems that many other rules require a player to be responsible for himself but then lets him of the hook on this one and puts the responsibility for a player's foul status on his opponent.
I think it might say somewhere in the WPA rules that, in the absence of a referee, the players will act as each others' referees. So the rule would also apply to the opponent in this case. Sucks, doesn't it?
Per Buddy's post, I added my hash to the discussion here:http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=128491
see my reply here http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=128491