3-Fouling a Beginner Level Player in a Weekly Handicap Tournament?

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ChrisinNC

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In a poolroom’s weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament with 5 different handicap rankings (say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from strongest to weakest) how many 4 or 5 ranked players would attempt to 3-foul a 1 ranked beginner level player to try to win a game?

Personally, I would never do it, even if my opponent is on the hill. I may certainly play safeties on them in order to try to obtain ball-in-hand, and if necessary I may even foul them 3 or 4 times in a row if the layout of the balls requires it, but if I can’t figure out a way to win a game against a significantly lower skilled player without having to apply a the 3 consecutive foul loss of game rule on them, I don’t feel I deserve to win.

However, we certainly have some higher ranked players in our tournament that seem to have no problem resorting to this against a beginner level player, and I personally think it’s quite sad. Just curious as to opinions here, and I’m guessing they will be mixed?
 
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If it's a cash tournament for the win, I'd 3 foul them.

Otherwise I typically take lower percentage shots against lower skill levels to give them a chance at the table (which is what I do in league play).

For me, it totally depends on the scenario.
 
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In a local handicapped tournament (NPL, Great Entertainer SF, about 1995?, for those in the area), Filipino Gene (Ventura) was spotting someone 5-2 at nine ball. The player going to 2 slopped in the 9 in the first rack, putting him on the hill. Gene then won five games in a row on three fouls.

People were generally in awe of what Gene did, not disgusted by it.
 
Bob Jewett said:
In a local handicapped tournament (NPL, Great Entertainer SF, about 1995?, for those in the area), Filipino Gene (Ventura) was spotting someone 5-2 at nine ball. The player going to 2 slopped in the 9 in the first rack, putting him on the hill. Gene then won five games in a row on three fouls.

People were generally in awe of what Gene did, not disgusted by it.
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I remember Gene very well and played him many times. He was a very 'crafty' player and a very good player in his prime!
 
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Our local non-handicapped 8 ball winners bracket / 9 ball losers bracket explicitly outlaws the 3 foul rule. IMO the 3 foul rule should be reserved for pro level players only, especially in short races. Gambling matches are another story, since the rules are part of the negotiations.
 
Bob Jewett said:
In a local handicapped tournament (NPL, Great Entertainer SF, about 1995?, for those in the area), Filipino Gene (Ventura) was spotting someone 5-2 at nine ball. The player going to 2 slopped in the 9 in the first rack, putting him on the hill. Gene then won five games in a row on three fouls.

People were generally in awe of what Gene did, not disgusted by it.
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I guess I can see where his opponent slopping in the 9 ball in the first game maybe makes it a little more acceptable at that point.
 
ChrisinNC said:
In a poolroom’s weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament with 5 different handicap rankings (say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from strongest to weakest) how many 4 or 5 ranked players would attempt to 3-foul a 1 ranked beginner level player to try to win a game?

Personally, I would never do it, even if my opponent is on the hill. I may certainly play safeties on them in order to try to obtain ball-in-hand, and if necessary I may even foul them 3 or 4 times in a row if the layout of the balls requires it, but if I can’t figure out a way to win a game against a significantly lower skilled player without having to apply a the 3 consecutive foul loss of game rule on them, I don’t feel I deserve to win.

However, we certainly have some higher ranked players in our tournament that seem to have no problem resorting to this against a beginner level player, and I personally think it’s quite sad. Just curious as to opinions here, and I’m guessing they will be mixed?
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If my opponent is a decent human, I would TRY to avoid 3 fouling them. If they are/were an arsehole, I'm jailing them all day long.
😈😁
 
Oh after playing APA for a year and a half I would 3 foul someone no problem. A lot of APA 3-4’s that are high on themselves and need a reality check. Kinda Like J2 said. 3 fouling someone you don’t like feels good.

On another note though. Most of the time I wouldn’t even think to 3 foul anybody unless they fouled themselves first and there was no out for me. Takes too long. If I can run it in one turn or two turns with a safety played the game will finish sooner than playing safe 3 times and having them stare at the table for 5 min each turn.

Plus on the flip side of things. 3 fouling someone that wants to play better actually will help them next time they practice. And 3 fouling one of your buddies can be fun.

Happy late Thanksgiving AZ. It’s been a while since made it on here
 
Played a friend for 1st in a race to 3 9ball trnmnt. Loser breaks and he came out of 1 loss side so he got 1st break. Dry break with 1 frozen to the 9 in a pocket cueball 6" away. He just reracks and breaks dry. I 3 foul him. He breaks dry again I 3 foul him. Win without technicallyrics making a ball.
The next night a different 9 ball trnmnt I dbl dipped him after he made the case 9 and scratched. We weren't playing ball in hand so I had a spot shot. I missed it but slopped it in 4 rails. He had just graduated college and had a great job so he wolves at me to gamble since I am so lucky. Beat him 4 sets in a row....no luck involved.😉
 
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ChrisinNC said:
I guess I can see where his opponent slopping in the 9 ball in the first game maybe makes it a little more acceptable at that point.
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A little Acceptable? I believe in tough love. 🤷‍♂️
One of the First things a weak player should learn is how to get out of a trap. Hand in hand with how to Ride the 9.
Kicks Like A Mule is a training exercise I would recommend. 😉
 
Why Ning about anything was met with a standard statement by my elementary school teacher. "Shut up and keep walking. Or I will tie the other leg down." Oh wait the whining was, "but teacher I don't want to walk in circles."
 
gregcantrall said:
A little Acceptable? I believe in tough love. 🤷‍♂️
One of the First things a weak player should learn is how to get out of a trap. Hand in hand with how to Ride the 9.
Kicks Like A Mule is a training exercise I would recommend. 😉
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I remember asking my Dad once, "when would I get better?" He replied, "when you get tired of racking." He showed me a few pointers, and I understood exactly what he meant.
R.I.P. Pops. Message received.
😎
 
In my opinion, complaining about getting 3-fouled is like complaining about trying an early 9-ball. Or losing to an opening trap in chess. Anything within the rules of any game, that isn't unsportsmanlike (such as deliberate extremely slow play to shark your opponent), should be allowed and acknowledged as a part of the game.

It is a skill to read the probabilities of when you should attempt different tactics, such as a 3-foul, or an early 9 combo, which usually isn't worth it, but sometimes can be a best play, depending on not only the table layout, but your own and your opponents personal strengths and weaknesses.

So, if you are wondering whether you should do something that is a part of the game against a weaker player, ask yourself if you are playing to win or not.

If not, there's much easier ways to lose a game than making your tactical choices sub-optimal to appear more empathetic towards the other player.
 
ChrisinNC said:
In a poolroom’s weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament with 5 different handicap rankings (say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from strongest to weakest) how many 4 or 5 ranked players would attempt to 3-foul a 1 ranked beginner level player to try to win a game?

Personally, I would never do it, even if my opponent is on the hill. I may certainly play safeties on them in order to try to obtain ball-in-hand, and if necessary I may even foul them 3 or 4 times in a row if the layout of the balls requires it, but if I can’t figure out a way to win a game against a significantly lower skilled player without having to apply a the 3 consecutive foul loss of game rule on them, I don’t feel I deserve to win.

However, we certainly have some higher ranked players in our tournament that seem to have no problem resorting to this against a beginner level player, and I personally think it’s quite sad. Just curious as to opinions here, and I’m guessing they will be mixed?
Click to expand...

Would you dog a shot in a b&r?

Pandering to lower level players doesn't help them. You can be cool about it and help them through the frustration, but in the end you are teaching them ways to win, which they should want.

But, they are playing in a handicapped tourney, so they probably just want to win without putting in the work.
 
Not related to the question but to 3 foul rule itself.

We voted on the three foul rule for league play at our league meeting. I voted against it even though I'm one of the stronger players. I just don't like it for a variety of reasons.

It passed and I snapped a photo of who had their hands raised in favor. I have never gone out of my way to three foul anyone in the past but now those in that photo with their hands raised I have a strong desire to do so. Sucks to be them.
 
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