626 is it legit?

[xradarx]

Falsehoods and other claims js626

Agree 100%. It was an exhibition run, nothing more. TOTALLY different deal than missing a ball and possibly not shooting again.

Exhibition? Certainly not. JS was guaranteed an exclusive use of a table that would be out of the normal customer traffic so there would be no noticeable interference movement in his visual shooting during practice for his record attempts. Same guarantee for all record practice attempts. The attempts were only leveled for a record attempt after he reached a set score level of about 200 points. Smaller score levels noticeably below that number were cast off as non-record attempts and not even documented. So there is no real count as to how many so-called record attempts were made and discounted by js team. Most of js practice record attempts happened prior to the business even being open for customers every day. So, please if you know, include whom he performed this exhibition for. We only know of eight persons who signed as witnesses, All js team members save 2 and the business owner, none unbiased.

 

[garczar]

Exhibition? Certainly not. JS was guaranteed an exclusive use of a table that would be out of the normal customer traffic so there would be no noticeable interference movement in his visual shooting during practice for his record attempts. Same guarantee for all record practice attempts. The attempts were only leveled for a record attempt after he reached a set score level of about 200 points. Smaller score levels noticeably below that number were cast off as non-record attempts and not even documented. So there is no real count as to how many so-called record attempts were made and discounted by js team. Most of js practice record attempts happened prior to the business even being open for customers every day. So, please if you know, include whom he performed this exhibition for. We only know of eight persons who signed as witnesses, All js team members save 2 and the business owner, none unbiased.

Sir, you REALLY need to move on from this. Wow.

 

[xradarx]

Sir

Sir, you REALLY need to move on from this. Wow.

You First!Practice what You preach. Let sleeping dogs lie! This lie has already layed an egg.

 

[Danny Harriman]

roger this

I think the record is legit. For one, I've seen JS' other runs, and though his patterns are very unorthodox, his shotmaking and short position control are out of this world. He has several legit 400+ runs, and 626 isn't far fetched, given enough attempts.

Even IF the run is a fake and doctored in some way, I do not posess the expertise to determine that this is the case. If there is any professional involved in that hypothetical forgery, it would pretty much be impossible for a layman to spot.

We do not have any "claim" to be able to view the video, it's his to do with as he wishes. It's sad that he chose the route he did, mostly for the promotion of the game, but also to enthusiasts, like myself, who would very much like to see the video, for a number of reasons.

I'd love for some guy to absolutely WRECK JS' record and upload it to Youtube. Not many candidates for that task, and they weren't exactly lining up to beat the previous record either, so it may not happen for many years, if at all. Ours is a dying game.

Thanks for your input, I still see the facts lou figuero, myself and many others feel the tape will not pass the geek squad test - and we do hold firm in our belief. Couple years ago there was a dude (on this forum who stood next to John in his avatar) who claimed to have run a large amount of racks - but no one had ever heard of him being a top 14.1 player? Turned out he had doctored the video and the geek squad graph picked up immediately on where the ball he missed had been replaced. The fellow admitted to cheating and replacing the ball in question :-0 he still posts on az today and really did not feel any remorse for trying to cheat - in fact he thought it was funny. I know john and charlie, if they thought there was $ behind pulling a hoax on the public's eye - they would not even hesitate in doing so and probly laugh bout it too.

How come John's mystery tape is not subject to the same public scrutiny as john's buddy who was caught splicing footage together here on az? I was following his progress and heard that he had a bad skid around 421, again I really believe the cue sponsor and hall of fame deadline was closing in and they produced their western that very few have been allowed to view. he and charlie williams (one of his sponsors) have only allowed maybe fifty people to see the tape - in 9 months (private semi public viewing only). Under the oblivious sheep narrative I could claim an 800 ball run and if I had a few friends in the media - I could hide the tape from public eye i.e. 'general public' and use my past wins to help give the lie a leg to stand on - I will never do that - as it is not in my dna - thank God. When there are secrets there is larceny and or corruption - period. You are right bout one facet and that is - it is sad that he and charlie chose to promote fake news to slip john into hall of fame. I have read your posts and know that you are a true student of the game, don't let charlie, bca, and nyslimes make you a media puppet. Adios and better - more honest days for our media Straight Pool. Once the run has been tested by the geek squad graph - I will believe it - there is a problem with the tape and this is why they will not release the so called footage - yes very sad indeed. Soon his new cue sponsor will come out with a 626 cue and less than 1/10th of 1% of the worlds population will have seen the footage of this 'mystery tape' - very sad our drive by news media is - very sad. Check out when I played him a race to 400 an a tight diamond tar match for big $ - oh his sponsors may keep that hidden from the general public as well. Anyone who needs a copy - talk to me.

 

[lfigueroa]

Thanks for your input, I still see the facts lou figuero, myself and many others feel the tape will not pass the geek squad test - and we do hold firm in our belief. Couple years ago there was a dude (on this forum who stood next to John in his avatar) who claimed to have run a large amount of racks - but know one had ever heard of him being a top 14.1 player? Turned out he had doctored the video and the geek squad graph picked up immediately on where the ball he missed had been replaced. The fellow admitted to cheating and replacing the ball in question :-0 he still posts on az today and really did not feel any remorse for trying to cheat - in fact he thought it was funny. I know john and charlie, if they thought there was $ behind pulling a hoax on the public's eye - they would not even hesitate in doing so and probly laugh bout it too.

How come John's mystery tape is not subject to the same public scrutiny as john's buddy who was caught splicing footage together here on az? I was following his progress and heard that he had a bad skid around 421, again I really believe the cue sponsor and hall of fame deadline was closing in and they produced their western that very few have been allowed to view. he and charlie williams (one of his sponsors) have only allowed maybe fifty people to see the tape - in 9 months (private semi public viewing only). Under the oblivious sheep narrative I could claim an 800 ball run and if I had a few friends in the media - I could hide the tape from public eye i.e. general public and use my past wins to help give the lie a leg to stand on - I will never do that - as it is not in my dna - thank God. When there are secrets there is larceny and or corruption - period. You are right bout one facet and that is - it is sad that he and charlie chose to promote fake news to slip john into hall of fame. I have read your posts and know that you are a true student of the game, don't let charlie, bca, and nyslimes make you a media puppet. Adios and better - more honest days for our media Straight Pool. Once the run has been tested by the geek squad graph - I will believe it - there is a problem with the tape and this is why they will not release the so called footage - yes very sad indeed. Soon his new cue sponsor will come out with a 626 cue and less than 1% of the worlds population will have seen the footage - very sad our drive by news media is - very sad. Check out when I played him a race to 400 an a tight diamond tar match for big $ - oh his sponsors may keep that hidden from the general public as well. Anyone who needs a copy - talk to me.

OK, since I've been mentioned by name, (sort of, lol), I'll say this: I would like to see an unedited version of the tape.

I do not have faith in the BCA and I do not have faith in anyone's say-so for this level of claimed accomplishment. That is not a slam against JS. It is simply the old Carl Sagan standard, which I have quoted several times before: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

So, before anyone launches into the old -- there's no video of Mosconi's run -- yes, that's true. But that really wasn't readily available in his day and certainly not on the the night of a one-off, run-of-the-mill exhibition on his schedule. Thankfully, someone had the foresight to gather the signatures for an affidavit so we would have some faith in the run besides Mosconi's say-so. However, if Mosconi had made his run in today's day and age, I think all would agree it would be reasonable to ask for the video so we could all review it. Same for JS.

Frankly, the fact that video evidence of JS's run is being so closely guarded -- supposedly for financially related reasons -- gives me (and should give all of you) pause.

I mean: what financial reasons?

At this stage of the game, JS's approach to marketing the run is an unmitigated disaster. Having waited so long vs striking while interest was strong right after the run was accomplished, it will be a miracle now if he eventually recoups anything of monetary significance.

So did he do it? Probably.

BUT -- were there questionable issues with the run, fouls, and/or equipment that would give the average 14.1 aficionado pause... maybe. We may never know.

Lou Figueroa

 

[ChrisinNC]

There are a lot of legitimate questions regarding this 626 run that are only gaining more and more traction by John’s refusal to release a video of the entire run. Personally I’m not going to consider it as legit until I carefully watch the entire run. As a lifelong 14.1 player, I’m just very curious as to how many extremely hard shots he had to make to keep this run alive? If it turns out to be too many, I’ll just form my own opinion as to whether or not to believe it.

 

[wrldpro]

Ok after reading a few things I will break my silence of sorts. Danny I will say exactly what Ive said before many times. I consider you a friend and I have gotten fortunate enough to see many of the games greatest play and spoke to many that are no longer around including Mosconi and Lassiter.
As I am a historian and an accomplished player of a few high runs myself I have said I considered you to have what is considered a very boring straight pool game because you have such great patterns and always seem to shoot the right shots at the right time with the best cue ball control with all the elite players that have ever played. I have seen you completely dominate several tournaments including Peter Burrows straight pool events literally like you were just practicing taking about the same time between each shot and 50% or better of your shots hitting with the same speed.
As far as you starting this thread and the history between you and Schmidt no one should have any issues with anything you have to say as absolutely you have earned the right as I also have been a victim of Johns completely inappropriate behavior. I never once started the issues between us as it was John and when we spoke several times before I always liked to root him on as he is truly one of our best American 14.1 players. Johns behavior to destroy and put down everything around him to gain advantages and to satisfy his ego is the worse of any top player Ive ever seen. I would recommend to you Danny to just let it go and be the better person as for the people that don't know his character as ive just stated about few have ever been around him enough times and the ones to defend him are the pure nuthuggers and most of them don't understand enough about pool to know about sharking or even have ever ran 50 balls to know about 14.1 anyways. I hope Johns recent runs would help our game but its not looking that way at the moment.

 

[Danny Harriman]

rodent to hawk

There are a lot of legitimate questions regarding this 626 run that are only gaining more and more traction by John’s refusal to release a video of the entire run. Personally I’m not going to consider it as legit until I carefully watch the entire run. As a lifelong 14.1 player, I’m just very curious as to how many extremely hard shots he had to make to keep this run alive? If it turns out to be too many, I’ll just form my own opinion as to whether or not to believe it.

have u gone from a rodent (most impressive asspec of schmidt's run) to a hawk of truth? What ever made u change yer mind - maybe it was yer conscience eh? Welcome to the politically in-correct air waves there Chris in North Carolina.

 

[Positively Ralf]

Wouldn't know if it is or not as he has not made any public viewing in NY. If he ever does I'll do my best to go watch it and report back.

for now, if he wants to monetize it the way he is, good for him. It's not as if pool players can make a living playing pool right?

 

[Danny Harriman]

Thank you

Sorry to have misspell your name Lou . Thanks for the kind words Wrldpro, yes john has thrown chalk at me while I was sitting in my chair - after he snookered himself in our first tar match and then acted as if I was out of line for questioning such behavior? So I too have seen first hand how he acts when faced with a formidable opponent - he is a disgrace to the game when he's losing. As far as letting it go Wrlpro - as the Beatles would say 'Let It Be', I have tried to not resist the tides of change with my own force. However - I won't with this, the first pocket billiard book I was gifted was Mosconi's, it greatly improved my game as a young shaver and I look forward to the mystery tape of 626 washing ashore 4 john cue public to see - I think there hoping the evidence will be devoured by the sharks - not going to happen.

I concur with you Lou - extraordinary claims - do require extraordinary evidence. Or as Uncle Ben would say "With great power comes - great responsibility". They have made a powerful claim - now let them be responsible or held accountable for the grandeur claim. Thank you Lou and Wrldpro for being a breath of fresh air to the media slime that exists in our society today. They have eluded the responsibility aspect of showing evidence - they should be ashamed of themselves, using the public as if we are apart of a hall of fame media experiment - in order to try and put a player like schmidt on what is possibly a very phony pedestal is truly a sad state of affairs for our great game of 14.1. Yall are both good players and it makes sense that you would want to see evidence - as I do. I do not question that schmidt is not a hall of fame candidate, however if part of that deal was to mislead the public and hide the evidence - it's a travesty to Mosconi's record. Also keep in mind there was an affidavit with fifteen signatures for Mosconi's claim - and the pool room was open. In john's run there were 3 people present and the pool room was closed.

I have said this before and I will say it again, Steak 'n Shake says (good steak burger) - 'if it's out in sight - it must be right', One of my favorite musicians Charlie Rich said no one knows what goes on 'behind closed doors'. The mystery tape of their claim - remains behind closed doors.

 

[ChrisinNC]

have u gone from a rodent (most impressive asspec of schmidt's run) to a hawk of truth? What ever made u change yer mind - maybe it was yer conscience eh? Welcome to the politically in-correct air waves there Chris in North Carolina.

I never stated in my post that I absolutely believed he did it. I was simply stating the hardest aspects of his 45 consecutive rack run was in managing to set up 45 consecutive high percentage break shots, and then not only successfully executing those break shots but managing to leave himself a makeable shot following the break shot, 45 consecutive times. I do agree with you and others that the longer John waits to release this tape however he chooses to do so, the more questions and suspicions I have surrounding the legitimacy of the run.

 

[xradarx]

Legit/NotLegit

Review some of the practice videos from the js team on YouTube. You will immediately see proof of shot collaboration between team members. You will also see that no matter how high you turned your volume, you could never understand their discussion of shots. The rack man stayed in front of the camera until js was practically down onto his shot routine. There will probably be no audio included on the proposed original video prior to their voice over of the video. Leaves a lot to the imagination, no? Ante up the original and remove all legitimacy questions. Lend no credence to I said, you said, he said. The original video will speak for itself, until then nothing happened.

 

[garczar]

Review some of the practice videos from the js team on YouTube. You will immediately see proof of shot collaboration between team members. You will also see that no matter how high you turned your volume, you could never understand their discussion of shots. The rack man stayed in front of the camera until js was practically down onto his shot routine. There will probably be no audio included on the proposed original video prior to their voice over of the video. Leaves a lot to the imagination, no? Ante up the original and remove all legitimacy questions. Lend no credence to I said, you said, he said. The original video will speak for itself, until then nothing happened.

WOW. Are you and Harriman related? Both buy your tin-foil hats at the same store? I'm thinkin' you guys must be related to Oliver Stone

 

[ChrisinNC]

Review some of the practice videos from the js team on YouTube. You will immediately see proof of shot collaboration between team members. You will also see that no matter how high you turned your volume, you could never understand their discussion of shots. The rack man stayed in front of the camera until js was practically down onto his shot routine. There will probably be no audio included on the proposed original video prior to their voice over of the video. Leaves a lot to the imagination, no? Ante up the original and remove all legitimacy questions. Lend no credence to I said, you said, he said. The original video will speak for itself, until then nothing happened.

I don’t understand the need for an entire team to be accompanying John in this effort, which sounds suspicious in itself. I assume the video cameras are mounted stationary, so why would he need more than one person to handle the video stuff, and that same person could rack the balls for him if for some reason he doesn’t wish to do it himself?

Obviously the more people he got involved in his team, the considerably higher his $ expenses would be for this effort, particularly over a period of months. Unless John was financed in this effort and even if he was, there would have been growing financial pressure from his backers for him to set this record as soon as possible, as his expenses continued to mount.

Sadly, it’s quite apparent John and his team didn’t think through a detailed plan of action in getting this video successfully to market in a timely fashion, if he was to accomplish this record breaking run.

 

[xradarx]

WOWgarczarWOW

WOW. Are you and Harriman related? NotBoth buy your tin-foil hats at the same store? Got mine at GARCZAR store. You probably need to further your quest directly to Hairyman. I'm thinkin' you guys must be related to Oliver Stone

That's what you get for thinking when you're not used to it.
I don't give a RAT's A$$ what you think. Refer to MR600 posts to find out how xradarxharrimanxradarx exist. If you have something intelligent to say, please feel free to post it, if you know to who(m) you wish to post to. xradarx

 

[garczar]

That's what you get for thinking when you're not used to it.
I don't give a RAT's A$$ what you think. Refer to MR600 posts to find out how xradarxharrimanxradarx exist. If you have something intelligent to say, please feel free to post it, if you know to who(m) you wish to post to. xradarx

You need help. Go find it. Both runs were EXHIBITIONS. Who, at the end of the day, really gives a shit?? Posting something intelligent seems to be above both of your pay grades.

 

[xradarx]

garczarnut

You need help. Go find it. Both runs were EXHIBITIONS. Who, at the end of the day, really gives a shit?? Posting something intelligent seems to be above both of your pay grades.

Doc Garc practicing without license? Can you even spell exhibition? It's a free lookup. I don't believe I've been begging for a handout, so how many pay grades I have shouldn't matter, expecially to you Doc Garc. You still post nothing to support your efforts, only name calling.

 

[Danny Harriman]

Ok

I never stated in my post that I absolutely believed he did it. I was simply stating the hardest aspects of his 45 consecutive rack run was in managing to set up 45 consecutive high percentage break shots, and then not only successfully executing those break shots but managing to leave himself a makeable shot following the break shot, 45 consecutive times. I do agree with you and others that the longer John waits to release this tape however he chooses to do so, the more questions and suspicions I have surrounding the legitimacy of the run.

Ok - but u have a strange way of sitting on the fence. Yes they are holding the evidence hostage to the public, I do believe there is a reason. Also in yer prior post u did not mention the 'hardest aspects' u said the 'most impressive aspect' rearranging yer words hmm and ur prior post did lean towards implying john's run was fully legit beyond the shadow of a hidden mystery tape, now that a couple other posters agree with me it seems to me that u r changing ur tune completely - maybe u had a change of art' please don't be a puppet - we have enough of them already - they all have subscribed to nyslimes,facebook and bca bar leegs'. I don't care 4 yer style of journalism at all. u are too wishy washy for me. as for Wrlpro, myself and Lou - we all have something in common - we can think for ourselves - don't be such a follower - it makes u look weak.

 

[Danny Harriman]

keep playin one hole

https://cdn.ymaws.com/bca-pool.com/resource/resmgr/press_releases/schmidt_new_high_run_record_.pdf

The BCA reviewed the unedited tape before formally announcing that Schmidt broke the record. That gives credibility to the claim.

I’m sure the BCA has its faults, but it is the recognized body for the sport and is generally perceived as a reputable organization. The BCA gains very little from recognizing Schmidt’s run, but has a lot to lose (reputation-wise) if ever it was found that the evidence didn’t support their public statement. The last thing any bureaucratic organization wants is to issue a retraction.

I shoot fairly often at Billiard of Springfield, by the way. The locals are all proud of your accomplishments as a player. Have you considered making your own concerted effort at breaking Schmidt’s record? Many people think you’re one of the few who are capable of doing it. It would probably require the same full-time commitment that it did for Schmidt.

Seems like the sweetest resolution to this debate would be to snatch the record away from him. Just make sure that you don’t make the same mistake he did by failing to post the video on YouTube while it was still newsworthy. Trust me, money will come with more eyeballs.

I would keep playin round with one hole at the sports bar with the other ol bunters, I aint too proud to call that our local room. I am sure u know more bout business than me, you do however lack knowledge to think for yourself - on this subject. Careful most hippies I know have the ability to not be programmed noose' machines. Even if someone I thought well of within the pocket billiard world - was to claim to have surpassed Mosconi's true certified record - I would hold them accountable to the same standards as I do John (Andy Vollaria). You would do yourself some good to listen to players like Lou and myself in regarding to their possible fake news scandal from charlie williams (predator cues) and schmidt. Lou and I are of course way better player than you at One Hole and u would do well to heed our advice when it comes to not being a puppet for the fake news media, the bca is one of john's hidden pocket sponsors and should not be the only adjudicator of record keeping on this - I'm not sure their checks are totally balanced. :-(

In case u could not tell I am my own governing body for Straight Pool - I have earned it too - through many, many hrs of practice and Sacrifice. With great talent comes great accountability and u can consider me apart of the law in reference to 14.1 - I can pass the bar code there with flying colors that don't run. 4 all I I see rt now with the bca is what is very possibly a large politically motivated business blunder with this mystery tape of exactly 100 more than Mosconi's real record. So far the bca's claim is a total blunder - but they have some connections with nyslimes and a couple other fake news org's - I guess they always have clean shirts to play around in.

 

[Straightpool_99]

The 626, for all the hype, isn't all that significant, or at least not as much as it should have been. Yes it was a major achievement that needed doing. That being said, it's a practise achievement, not an actual sporting one. For Mosconi, his record was part of his carefully constructed persona (by Brunswick and himself) of the stylish gentleman who plays the game better than anybody else. The 526 was just the icing on that cake, something that looked good on a poster and impressed people. Mosconi had a legitimate claim to being the best straight pool player of his era, possibly of all time. The high run record may have cemented that claim, but wasn't really necessary. Also it was achieved more or less accidentally, or incidentally I should say. That of course was also made part of the lore. "He quit because he got tired", etc.

John Schmidt is a great straight pool player, one of the very best in fact. But I don't think you can make the claim that he's positively THE best. In our era that would probably be Hohmann though it's not as clear as the previous ones, before him Ortman, then Sigel, Mizerak, Crane and Mosconi. So when JS with great purpose tried to break that record, under ideal conditions, trying over and over again, it really didn't work as a sort of icing on the cake or jewel in a crown. It became more of a separate achievement, like consecutive free throws or whatever. Both separated from the game itself, and from the the record holders player status. It may not be fair, but thats how it was perceived, IMO. Now most people have no real understanding of how tough of an achievement it is, it needs a lot of explaining, I'd say, to maybe 80% of even the hard core players of other pool games. This fact does of course not help JS' cause any. He doesn't have Brunswick back him up, on a salary, with slick ad-men writing up his achievements.

What would have been needed for this achievement to be cemented would be rivalry between the top players, where they were all trying to break it. Maybe some sort of personal grudge between them that would culminate in a sort of private competition. It would need to be done publicly, for all to see. The opposite has happened. I don't see anyone going after it, and the video is nowhere to be seen. The whole thing was a wasted opportunity, in a sport rife with them.