7 foot diamond ruining my game

bowiebill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You've never had to adjust so it is foreign to you. It's not the end of the world. You just need to know what the struggles are so you now how to adjust. Once you are able to recognize the what and the why, you can implement the necessary adjustment.

1. How do the other tables play differently than the Diamond?

2. What part of the game are you struggling with on the other tables vs the Diamond?

It's your state of mind when you are faced with the adversity that is getting in the way of executing like you know how. The thought process cannot be, "I'm fucked. This table doesn't play anywhere near my table at home. No way I can play on this." It has to be, "This table plays differently in these ways....I need to adjust X Y Z to play my best game."

I was faced with a very similar circumstance recently. I have a Gold Crown I that I restored, had new rubber installed (Diamond Black), had the subrails extended and the corners cut to 4.125" (141*) and the sides to 4.875" (103*). The table plays a touch on the fast side and the pockets are tough but fair. I've played exclusively on Gold Crowns for the better part of a few years but recently joined my buddy's BCA League. They play at a local pool hall on first generation (Pro Billiard Tour) Red Label Diamonds. They are much slower than my table, pockets are 4.5" and 5" but they have a much deeper shelf than I'm accustomed to. When I started the league I was rated a 623 Fargo. My first week was bad and I really didn't start to adjust to the tables util the 3rd week. My Fargo dropped to 598 but is now back up to 613 and I hope to get it back to where it was or higher by the end of the session. I did not play on those Diamonds except for league night and continued to practice on my table. The table was irrelevant as I knew what I needed to work on during practice to play like I can on the Diamonds and focused on that. Because the Diamonds are slower, if takes a little more stroke (not much) and a little more english to move the ball around the table. The tables are no longer an issue. They never really were an issue. It just took me a little longer than it should have to adjust.
As I said the main issue is adjusting for speed. I tend to play how I practice rather than changing things up because the diamond plays differently. When I try to put a little more stroke, as you call it, I end up overrunning everything.

with my GC when I dropped down to bar boxes, I didn’t have to change my stroke because the speed of the nine foot and slowness of the bar box equaled out.

again, some may claim I’m just not good enough to adjust. I’m fine with that, but I guess the question is whether or not It’s worth it to have a table that plays differently. At this point I actually think I’d be better off practicing less at home.
 

bowiebill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wasnt there just a thread that said pros shouldn't play on a 7 foot table? Because it was too easy?

If the OP changes out the rails and get LEAGUE cut pockets, he will be happy with it.
I can’t say that isn’t possible, but there are no good table mechanics in my area that are willing to work on diamond tables.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As I said the main issue is adjusting for speed. I tend to play how I practice rather than changing things up because the diamond plays differently. When I try to put a little more stroke, as you call it, I end up overrunning everything.

with my GC when I dropped down to bar boxes, I didn’t have to change my stroke because the speed of the nine foot and slowness of the bar box equaled out.

again, some may claim I’m just not good enough to adjust. I’m fine with that, but I guess the question is whether or not It’s worth it to have a table that plays differently. At this point I actually think I’d be better off practicing less at home.
It shouldn't take much to adjust back and forth. You just have to mentally commit there will be differences and know the adjustment. Like I said, no two tables play alike. My table is faster than other Gold Crowns I play on but the choice is simple: concede I can't play on them and give my money away or adjust and put money in my pocket. The choice is quite simple, really.

You have many hours of experience on both tables so it should really only take you a few games to adjust your speed. A player with a 600+ Fargo rating should be able to adjust. I think you just aren't interested in learning what needs to be adjusted for the different playing conditions (stubborn) or the mental focus isn't there to actively adapt your game to the conditions (laziness).
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wasnt there just a thread that said pros shouldn't play on a 7 foot table? Because it was too easy?

If the OP changes out the rails and get LEAGUE cut pockets, he will be happy with it.
The OP has stated pocket size or cut isn't the issue. He can't adjust to the different speeds of the tables.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Move not make
I've worked with John a little. Showed him how to rebuild some GC4 rails with Pro cut pockets, sold him one of my pocket gages for sizing pockets. I know John's not set up to move Diamonds, and don't know what his experience is when it comes to working on Diamond tables, or leveling them for that matter too. I just figured by now he would have had to start working on them sooner or later.
 

bowiebill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've worked with John a little. Showed him how to rebuild some GC4 rails with Pro cut pockets, sold him one of my pocket gages for sizing pockets. I know John's not set up to move Diamonds, and don't know what his experience is when it comes to working on Diamond tables, or leveling them for that matter too. I just figured by now he would have had to start working on them sooner or later.
Guess not. And there is no professionals near me that do. Maybe that’s why I’m not happy with the table. Maybe it isn’t set up well. Who knows.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Guess not. And there is no professionals near me that do. Maybe that’s why I’m not happy with the table. Maybe it isn’t set up well. Who knows.
That can make a huge difference in how the table plays. My first suggestion is to tighten the 12 rail bolts to 15ft lbs, because I guarantee they're loose.
 

bowiebill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did you buy new or used?
Used. When I was looking to buy I couldn’t find anywhere that could get one in less than 3 months and I was impatient.

I’m a do it yourself guy, but I would never even try to pretend I had the skill to set up or adjust a table properly.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In general I tend to be lazy. At everything in life.

So what’s your point Fatboy?

Goes like this, when I was in stroke playing pool 7 days a week in 9’ tables. I was playing my best a few times in my life. If I got short stacked and had to go fishing (robbing people in bars-back when that was a thing) I’d go play on what ever 7’ barbox garbage table. Aiming and potting balls was a joke, controlling the CB is more delicate on a 7’ table. But I’d get lazy aiming-so when I stepped back up to a 9’ table being the lazy person I am I’d point and shoot and miss what I’d pot on a 7’ box.

So the wrap up is did the 7’ box make me play worse? No but because it did make me lazy I’d have to recalibrate my brain and readjust to the big table again. So in a sense it did make my game temporarily worse for 20 minutes.

Is that what all this arguing is about? Adjusting from one box to another? Wow just wow.

best
Fatboy
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
No need to get butt hurt.
My point is that my skill level overall is going down because of owning a diamond instead of a gold crown.
My Fargo used to be 589.
My GC had 4.5” pockets and played great. This diamond is junk. Sorry you work for the company but the truth is the truth.
Would it not then stand to reason that everyone who shoots on a Diamond suffers a great loss in Fargorate??? I would guess not, therefore we would have to assume it is something with you rather than with the table. I have a GCI with 4 1/2" pockets at home and I am opposite of you, I think Diamonds are great and that Valley's are junk. The only thing I can say I like about Valley's is that they are easy to bank on, angle in=angle out, as long as you don't hit it so hard that you hear the rail go "thunk", ( I'm sure everyone that has played on a Valley knows that sound I am talking about) at that point you probably aint making the ball. I will still take a tough banking Diamond over a Valley any day though.
 
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