75-Year Old Herman Rambow Conversion-Modernize Or Restore

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
One dilemma is the ivory butt cap on the darker cue has a few small cracks like you would see in an old ivory billiard ball.
The yellowed butt cap isn't ivory.

If I want to keep it looking original, do I re-use the cracked butt cap?
Have a new ivory butt cap replicated?
Make it a modern looking conversion with the cuemakers typical butt cap or Hoppe ring?
Hoppe ring would be sort of ironic.

My problem is where to draw the line on keeping them original, but still having pristine cues.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
to put it simply your either want an original valuable cue, or you want a pristine looking cue which then you basically just have a titlest conversion that really has no collector value anymore..
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
One dilemma is the ivory butt cap on the darker cue has a few small cracks like you would see in an old ivory billiard ball.
The yellowed butt cap isn't ivory.

If I want to keep it looking original, do I re-use the cracked butt cap?
Have a new ivory butt cap replicated?
Make it a modern looking conversion with the cuemakers typical butt cap or Hoppe ring?
Hoppe ring would be sort of ironic.

My problem is where to draw the line on keeping them original, but still having pristine cues.

I would keep the cracked ivory buttcap as long as it was structurally stable. I had a few like that - we filled the cracks with clear resin. It was in line with the character of the cue.
 

JC

Coos Cues
I guess old cues are cool just because they're old?

If someone made a cue like that today and tried to sell it they would be laughed out of town for the sloppy workmanship and crappy hit.

I have never been fond of old unless it has some other meaning to me.
 
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mchnhed

I Came, I Shot, I Choked
Silver Member

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Moet.1977

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
?

I guess old cues are cool just because they're old?

If someone made a cue like that today and tried to sell it they would be laughed out of town for the sloppy workmanship and crappy hit.

I have never been fond of old unless it has some other meaning to me.

JC

Are you saying Rambows cues had a crappy hit? Because I have to disagree hell all
kinds of champions used his cues.
How many are using your cues? And for that matter do you think your cues will ever
be a collectable. LOL
 

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
Old cues are cool because they're cool, and Titlists are Titlists.

The glues that were used by Rambow and others didn't hold up on many vintage cues so some form of restoration is always going to be required.
My Rambows are very old and survived quite nicely.
I could play with them as-is, with just new tips.
Titlist conversions typically play really good, so these cues work as just old vintage collectibles or as a modern conversion.
I've collected Titlist cues for a long time, and they are more sought after now than ever.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Are you saying Rambows cues had a crappy hit? Because I have to disagree hell all
kinds of champions used his cues.
How many are using your cues? And for that matter do you think your cues will ever
be a collectable. LOL

Sorry to butt hurt you. Did Rambow think his cues would be collectable? Do you think he cared? Do you think I do? Of course champions used his cues. They had to use something.

Barbie dolls and crystal ash trays are collectable too. Packrats will collect a lot of junk. It's in their nature.

All I was saying is those old cues by modern standards are quite sloppy. Look at the points on those cues for instance.

You think they're cool and want to collect them at big dollar values then by all means drive the market. I was just commenting on what my eye's told me.
 
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alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What I would do with them is take them to a big tournament like Turning Stone or Derby City where a lot of cuemakers are present and see what I could get in trade for them.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
I guess old cues are cool just because they're old?

If someone made a cue like that today and tried to sell it they would be laughed out of town for the sloppy workmanship and crappy hit.

I have never been fond of old unless it has some other meaning to me.

JC


Not everybody has an appreciation of history, LOL!
 
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Type79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Keep Them Original

Ted,

I would advocate favoring originality. If either or both warrant a refinish, have them shot with lacquer. Automotive clear or other thick finishes don't look right on vintage cues.

Anyone can own a shiny new cue and many prefer bright and shiny, but if the day ever comes in the world of billiards where originality is recognized as being more desirable than refinished, there are going to people kicking themselves for devaluing their cues.
 

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
Ted,

I would advocate favoring originality. If either or both warrant a refinish, have them shot with lacquer. Automotive clear or other thick finishes don't look right on vintage cues.

Anyone can own a shiny new cue and many prefer bright and shiny, but if the day ever comes in the world of billiards where originality is recognized as being more desirable than refinished, there are going to people kicking themselves for devaluing their cues.


Excellent point
Thanks, that is very good advice
Probably the way I will go.
I'm sure others said something similar, but I like it.

Peace
 

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
Sorry to butt hurt you. Did Rambow think his cues would be collectable? Do you think he cared? Do you think I do? Of course champions used his cues. They had to use something.

Barbie dolls and crystal ash trays are collectable too. Packrats will collect a lot of junk. It's in their nature.

All I was saying is those old cues by modern standards are quite sloppy. Look at the points on those cues for instance.

You think they're cool and want to collect them at big dollar values then by all means drive the market. I was just commenting on what my eye's told me.

JC

The Titlist market is pretty well travelled, it's not being driven anywhere.
I'm amazed at the paranoia people have over market manipulation, when it's just a pool cue.
I think the LD and import markets are being driven, but the vintage cue market is pretty well set.
Unless you're living under a rock, you know how much a Titlist is worth.

I don't think anyone is trying to drive any markets when vintage Titlist cues are concerned.
 

JC

Coos Cues
The Titlist market is pretty well travelled, it's not being driven anywhere.
I'm amazed at the paranoia people have over market manipulation, when it's just a pool cue.
I think the LD and import markets are being driven, but the vintage cue market is pretty well set.
Unless you're living under a rock, you know how much a Titlist is worth.

I don't think anyone is trying to drive any markets when vintage Titlist cues are concerned.

I understand the history of it. Sorry to hijack your thread, I was just commenting on how primitive old cues were to today's standards without any malice in my heart.
 
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cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
I understand the history of it. Sorry to hijack your thread, I was just commenting on how primitive old cues were to today's standards without any malice in my heart.

JC

I also never understood what the problem is with hijacking a thread.
Hijack away
Like the cue market, it's not like we're going anywhere.
Personally I think it's much more fun to argue about Titlists.

I think Herman Rambow is considered the grandfather of cuebuilding.
He invented the Titlist, and two piece cue cues basically started with Rambow.
We had to start somewhere, but I think they are less primitive than like the first wheel, or the first telephone, vacuum cleaner, or clock.
 

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
Update if anyone is interested

Cues were mailed off to Paul Drexler.
Still haven't decided exactly what to do.
Can't even decide on shafts other than the originals need new ivory ferrules.

The Ivory butt cap on the darker cue is an issue because where do I draw the line on originality.
New butt cap or keep original that looks like an old ivory cue ball?
If new it probably won't be Ivory, but the old one isn't that bad, at least it's in tact.

Anyway after all these years I'm finally doing something with these cues.
 

pvc lou

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think I would keep all the original parts, if possible. Keep it authentic...that's what gives it it's character.

Update if anyone is interested

Cues were mailed off to Paul Drexler.
Still haven't decided exactly what to do.
Can't even decide on shafts other than the originals need new ivory ferrules.

The Ivory butt cap on the darker cue is an issue because where do I draw the line on originality.
New butt cap or keep original that looks like an old ivory cue ball?
If new it probably won't be Ivory, but the old one isn't that bad, at least it's in tact.

Anyway after all these years I'm finally doing something with these cues.
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Update if anyone is interested

Cues were mailed off to Paul Drexler.
Still haven't decided exactly what to do.
Can't even decide on shafts other than the originals need new ivory ferrules.

The Ivory butt cap on the darker cue is an issue because where do I draw the line on originality.
New butt cap or keep original that looks like an old ivory cue ball?
If new it probably won't be Ivory, but the old one isn't that bad, at least it's in tact.

Anyway after all these years I'm finally doing something with these cues.

It is a conundrum and I actually share your frustration with the decision.

Earlier I had broken with my norm and suggested going for an "updated" version.

This really flies in the face of what I usually think.

I generally follow the "preserve where possible, repair when necessary" kind of thinking with such cues.

Following that, the butt cap need not be repaired. The cue functions without such a repair.


Drexler has the cues. That's a great opportunity.

We love these cues. I share your appreciation for them. We do enjoy hitting balls with them as well. But their dimensions etc are from a different time. They are simply less practical for regular use and playing with them is usually more of a novelty. The opportunity to re-work and update one is something to be considered if you really want to play with it. If it were a particularly fine or unique example, or if it had some special provenance I wouldn't consider it. But there are enough of them around for me to not be offended at the notion of updating one.

I look at it sort of like a classic muscle car that came with drum brakes, inferior tires, and maybe a non-matching numbers engine that requires leaded gas. It may be a prime candidate for a "resto-rod" kind of update. Not a particularly rare model, but a cool example. You can update it with modern mechanicals to make it a more reasonable vehicle for real world regular use, maybe even a daily driver.

I am not trying to convince you but rather explain how and why I actually violated my own typical thoughts on what to do with such cues.

There is one other thing. You have two. If I had one I would not consider modifying or updating it. With two, one of them might be a candidate to be a "resto-rod".

Lastly, as I said in the beginning, Drexler has the cues. Why is that an opportunity? When considering the "resto-rod" route there are only certain cue makers I would want to do the work. No disrespect to other makers at all, but Drexler is one of those that I would have do such work. First, he is of course a master and will truly make a good player out of it. Second, the cue has value before even being touched. The name on the work should be commensurate with that value. I am not just talking about monetary value but the kind of value we link to art, artists, antiques, etc.

It wouldn't just be a re-worked Rambow. It would be a Rambow re-worked by Drexler.

Kind of like having Carroll Shelby update your antique Mustang or Lingenfelter update your antique Corvette.

I might consider just asking Drexler to "make that one a real player" and allow his expertise, experience, artistry dictate the materials and methods. Then it is truly a Drexler, and truly a Rambow.

Again, I am not trying to convince you. More or less I am trying to publicly let it be known that I do respect the old cues for what they are and that I do not take the notion of putting work into them lightly. I did put some thought into it.

I have to think that Rambow might smile knowing one of his cues wasn't just a show piece but was still hitting balls and doing it with the best of them for many years to come. After all, he made them to play.



.
 

PRED

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Know anything about Otis?

I would ask PD to replace the ferrules and tips. That butt cap is on a 75 year old cue. The Ivory is probably twice that old.
 
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