8 ball end game - advice?
- Thread starter jimtauer
- Start date
yes, we're in agreement.....if the corner of the pocket was partially blocking the 10 ball, one could still draw, but hit the right side of the 10 ball, and draw around the 8 ball, leaving a shot on the 13 in the lower right pocket. (I'm the idiot always leaving balls in the jaws, so I know this shot)
nothing wrong with cutting the 13 first, depends what a person is more comfortable with.....by cutting the 13 however, you are sending the CB the long way around the table, anything can happen..........you pretty much cant scratch or lose the CB by drawing off the 10 (other than getting suck behind the 8 :sorry: )
My first choice would be to cut the 13 in the side with a small amount of inside, then low right off the 10 per the diagram below. It's easier to control the speed on these shots.
Second choice is low left off the 10 per the diagram below, position for 13 in the side.There is room for error on this but the position play on the 13 is tough.
No matter what you do, use a combo of low and English and a slight angle to pull the cue ball away from the 10. Straight draw could end up being a bad choice because you may catch a point coming back and lose the cue ball.
Second choice is low left off the 10 per the diagram below, position for 13 in the side.There is room for error on this but the position play on the 13 is tough.
No matter what you do, use a combo of low and English and a slight angle to pull the cue ball away from the 10. Straight draw could end up being a bad choice because you may catch a point coming back and lose the cue ball.
Attachments
- The 13 looks like an easy bank shot into the bottom corner, since it appears to be inline with the 5 diamond at the bottom and 2.5 diamond at the top. Or, with a hard hit, the two-rail bank shot is possible to the top corner.
- You can also hit the 10 with low-right and get position for the 13 in either the bottom corner or side pocket.
This is how I'm viewing your diagram, so I can be wrong about the angles.
I haven't seen enough respect in this thread for the fact that the ten-ball is hanging and
froze to the lower left jaw....it's a problem position shot for the 13 or the 8.
...there's no rail-first when a ball is hangin.
...set it up a few times and you'll see what I mean.
...on a deep shelf table, it's even more difficult.
froze to the lower left jaw....it's a problem position shot for the 13 or the 8.
...there's no rail-first when a ball is hangin.
...set it up a few times and you'll see what I mean.
...on a deep shelf table, it's even more difficult.
Bank the 13 across the corner making sure you hit it so the cue rolls up against the long rail so if you miss your opponent does not have a straight in 8 ball on the 8/10. When you bank the 13 hit it soft enough so if you miss it sticks in front of the pocket, better to miss long than short. If you do make it you will have a good angle to cut the 10 and get on the 8.
That is exactly why I would pick the 13 first, you have to get good shape off the 10 where you can't go rail first or even hit the rail after to the 13 and then get good again on the 8. 13 is not that hard to make, and you can go anywhere on the table to make the 10. The key is to hit the 10 exactly where you aim at the right speed, but even then you have a lot of options to shoot the 8 ball no matter where you end up. You'd have to be unlucky to end up having to bank it or have no reasonable shot at it. Even then you can play a rail to rail safe on it.
I concur with you. Once the 13 ball is near the pocket, and the cue ball is on the long rail, it would be difficult for the 8/10 combo. If your opponent attempts and miss, then you have the easy 13 to get shape for the 8 ball (which should be near the pocket since the 8/10 combo can only go in on a soft roll).
Agree. Only draw shots should be shot off such a ball.
In this particular case, if I had to shoot the 10 first, I would have ever so slightly cut it to the left, drawing the cueball inside the 8. That way there is almost no way to get a difficult shot on the 13.
Obviously the correct shot is to shoot the 13 first.
I concur with you. Once the 13 ball is near the pocket, and the cue ball is on the long rail, it would be difficult for the 8/10 combo. If your opponent attempts and miss, then you have the easy 13 to get shape for the 8 ball (which should be near the pocket since the 8/10 combo can only go in on a soft roll).
Bump the 13 3 rails toward the 10, leaving the CB near where the 13 currently sits, but with a view of the 10. If you combo then you have an easy out. If not, then you now have two balls blocking the 8. It's a very easy shot that doesn't require a hard hit or much CB movement, but is effective.
Thanks everyone for all the responses. Very insightful. Here is what I did, which I mentioned lost me the match - of course this situation came up hill-hill and decided everything.
-Shot the 10 first, in between the 10 and the left tit - with right english. Thinking was that would shoot the cue ball down the long rail (above the 8 ball), and I'd have the 13 in either the opposite side or corner. What happened here is the cue ball came back left, hit the left tit slightly and bounced out a bit. I still could then see the 13, but it was a very difficult cut into the corner. I missed the shot by about 3 inchs but left almost perfect shape on the 8 to go in back where the 10 was - for my opponent.
After reviewing all the responses, I think the best option is the person who said to bank/position the 13 for the bottom right corner, and leave the cue ball very near the top rail in the diagram. Pretty sure my opponent (a very mid-low level player) would have called the 8 where the 10 lies, sink the 10 and leave the 8 there.
The other option I thought of (which I know some won't like but didn't see anyone else post... ) is to play safe on the 10, slow roll the cue ball and attempt to leave it as close to where the 10 is (in the jaws would be the goal). If you can get it in the jaws, opponent cannot even hit the 8 ball without doing something crazy and potentially scratching in the process. Obviously this is very risky but with a good touch on the cueball, very doable IMO.
Even with this option, I think the bank-13-first is the best answer here.
-Shot the 10 first, in between the 10 and the left tit - with right english. Thinking was that would shoot the cue ball down the long rail (above the 8 ball), and I'd have the 13 in either the opposite side or corner. What happened here is the cue ball came back left, hit the left tit slightly and bounced out a bit. I still could then see the 13, but it was a very difficult cut into the corner. I missed the shot by about 3 inchs but left almost perfect shape on the 8 to go in back where the 10 was - for my opponent.
After reviewing all the responses, I think the best option is the person who said to bank/position the 13 for the bottom right corner, and leave the cue ball very near the top rail in the diagram. Pretty sure my opponent (a very mid-low level player) would have called the 8 where the 10 lies, sink the 10 and leave the 8 there.
The other option I thought of (which I know some won't like but didn't see anyone else post... ) is to play safe on the 10, slow roll the cue ball and attempt to leave it as close to where the 10 is (in the jaws would be the goal). If you can get it in the jaws, opponent cannot even hit the 8 ball without doing something crazy and potentially scratching in the process. Obviously this is very risky but with a good touch on the cueball, very doable IMO.
Even with this option, I think the bank-13-first is the best answer here.
I wold not try to play a safe using the 10 ever. You will foul or make the ball by accident way more than you can ever make a good hit on it. It's in the jaws, you need to hit the 10, then hit a rail, without scratching. And if it's hanging where you can't go rail first at it, that is just about impossible. Very bad idea. At best you would call a safe and make the 10, leaving me in the jaws on the 8, which I can then either just make or play a return safe to have you shoot a harder shot than you would have in the first place.
If you banked the 13 on me, I would just play the 8 through your ball if I was above the 8 or would just shoot it up-table at an open pocket if I was bellow. Not that hard of a shot, and even if I missed, the 8 is not hanging in the pocket and the cueball would be on the rail. Plus you are depending on your positioning skill with the cueball, and if you have that good of a control, why not just run out and win?
Unless you shoot the 13 then the 10 then the 8, you are in a losing position unless you are playing a bad player that has no idea what to do. Then it just does not matter what you do.
If you want to have the best chance of winning vs a mid or better range player, you make the 13 in the side.
Last edited:
Knowing that you already fouled trying to get position after the 10, I think I might play safe here.
Cut 13 toward top rail/side pocket with left english, sending CB to end rail and back toward top rail. Goal is to leave the 13 between the CB and the 8.
Cut 13 toward top rail/side pocket with left english, sending CB to end rail and back toward top rail. Goal is to leave the 13 between the CB and the 8.
Really depends on your skill (both you and opponent) but I personally despise the safe here. I have no interest in giving my opponent a shot to win (no matter if it's a bank or trying to follow the 10 in) when I feel the runout is very doable.
Cutting the 13 in the side gives you automatic position on the 10 and speed isn't very relevant so just potting the 13 is the focus. Then make the 10 and leave it about anywhere leaves you a good-great shot on the 8. I'd personally likely use low left and catch the 10 on the left side and come 2 rails back out to center of the table. Or I'd simply pot the 10 and shoot 8 up to top right corner.
Edit: if the 10 is super deep then my 2 rail position to the 8 is not a possibility. I'd draw out a little making sure to catch the right hand side of the 10 to draw up the table. Will have a makable shot to either top corner depending on where you get. And if the 10 is that deep then I hate the safe even more, an average shot on the 8 likely follows it in.
Cutting the 13 in the side gives you automatic position on the 10 and speed isn't very relevant so just potting the 13 is the focus. Then make the 10 and leave it about anywhere leaves you a good-great shot on the 8. I'd personally likely use low left and catch the 10 on the left side and come 2 rails back out to center of the table. Or I'd simply pot the 10 and shoot 8 up to top right corner.
Edit: if the 10 is super deep then my 2 rail position to the 8 is not a possibility. I'd draw out a little making sure to catch the right hand side of the 10 to draw up the table. Will have a makable shot to either top corner depending on where you get. And if the 10 is that deep then I hate the safe even more, an average shot on the 8 likely follows it in.
Last edited:
I've made that same mistake a few times....hopefully, I'm learning.
That left tit shot for the 10 was the correct second shot, as it would have been easier if you had potted the easy 13 in the side first, getting 3 rail shape nearer the 10.
imho, when you've got the table with such an easy run-out, take it.
Jeff Livingston
These are pretty much my thoughts on the matter. Thirteen ball first because shape is natural and low risk, and shape off the ten ball is now easier than if you had shot it first because you really only have to draw back about a foot to get good shape on the eight, but pretty much no matter where you end up you should have a decent shot on the eight and in the rare case where you don't you should still have a decent safe available. As some people have mentioned with the ten that deep in the pocket, whether you choose to shoot it first or second, you should probably just draw straight back off of it without hitting a rail going in or coming out. Hitting the rail can be risky here and there really isn't any need to chance it based on the ease with which you can get shape on the thirteen or eight either one just be drawing straight back off the ten.
Being an actual game, given one chance, I can't imagine playing it any way other than 13 in the side, 10 ball then 8 in the easiest of the six pockets. It doesn't require any special shot making skills. Just make the balls without scratching.
There's no way I would bank the 13 in a real game. Too many easy shots sitting on the table for that.
There's no way I would bank the 13 in a real game. Too many easy shots sitting on the table for that.
You should have probably shot the 13 first as shape was natural to the 10, and the shape from the 10 to the 8 is then much easier than it would have been from the 10 to the 13, especially if you aren't a pretty decent player.
In either case though with the 10 that deep in the jaws I think it is unnecessary and not worth the risk to hit any rail going or coming. Try to draw straight off the 10 ball with no rail contacts. Another reason why it is probably better to shoot the 10 as your second ball is that if you do accidentally hit a rail going in or coming out you will still probably have a decent shot at the 8 (if you were trying to draw back a foot), but if you play the 10 first and hit a rail you may not end up with a decent shot at the 13 if you were playing for shape on the 13.
I think this is a horrible choice if your opponent is good enough to be likely to be able to shoot the 8 into the pocket/10 ball like you say. Unless you are a great player (and maybe still then) this is a low percentage bank so you probably aren't going to make it and your opponent will get a shot. The guy is probably just going to make the 8 right behind your 10 and win the game as the 10 is going to have fairly minimal effect on his chances for making the 8. It's just way too easy to make the 8 right where the 10 is the way you have it diagrammed with the 10 deep in the jaws.
This is pure craziness. The chances for corner hooking him are low and take a great touch (and maybe some luck), and the chances for leaving him a decent free shot at the 8 or even scratching and giving him ball in hand are high. This option shouldn't even be in consideration IMO.