It was per ESPN too difficult to understand for a viewing audience and not fast paced enough. Hence came the Texas Express rules for the game to translate to TV. 2 foul rollout was a far better game for gambling
9-Ball Pushout - Foul
- Thread starter BarTableMan
- Start date
Thanks for the information, I certainly agree with you on this subject.
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Push out / 2 shot roll out
Chicago / 15 Ball rotation, no deductions, was also push or roll out.
We had some fun and great action playing those games.
I took a break from pool for a few years.
One day I run into a guy I know from the pool hall and he tells me he has a table and to come over and play. That lit the spark in me and I go to his house that night.
I scratch in the first rack and he takes ball in hand. That was the day I learned about Texas Express.
Chicago / 15 Ball rotation, no deductions, was also push or roll out.
We had some fun and great action playing those games.
I took a break from pool for a few years.
One day I run into a guy I know from the pool hall and he tells me he has a table and to come over and play. That lit the spark in me and I go to his house that night.
I scratch in the first rack and he takes ball in hand. That was the day I learned about Texas Express.
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
Per Jay Helfert:
"Richie [Florence] was an innovator. Against my objections (I was his TD), he went to Texas Express rules for the televised Caesar's events. He was looking for a way to speed up the game. A typical Race To Eleven used to take an hour and a half to two hours. The new rules cut that down 15-30 minutes.
Texas Express rules were first formulated by John McChesney, Robin Adair and Randy G. who posts on here. They used them for the Texas Express 9-Ball Tour in the early 80's. It was a major changeover from the old "Push Out" 9-Ball.
The big differences with the new rules, you must make a legal shot or it is a foul and the opponent gets ball in hand. Any balls made on a foul, stay down. With the old rules, you could "roll out" at any time, and your opponent had the option to shoot or pass back to you. If you fouled on your second stroke, your opponent got ball in hand behind the line. There was no ball in hand anywhere on the table.
All balls made on a foul would respot, and the incoming player shot from behind the line. So, all balls came back up and the incoming player shot from behind the line. He could also pass this shot back to the player who had fouled, and make him shoot at the respotted balls.
Thus you had to shoot many spot shots. It was a like a free throw in basketball. A good player could make it 9 out of 10 times. The game took longer and the better player had more of an advantage, due to the fact that more decisions had to be made. And more tough shots had to be shot as well. That's it in a nutshell."
Check out entire thread for an OG perspective on the subject. Plus, search AZB for more.
The really interesting thing, to me, is that a well-established game of pool, with many devoted followers, was scrapped to satisfy television's need for regulating time/game length. 9 Ball Roll/Push Out's fate provides an excellent cautionary tale for DCC, and others, whenever they begin to consider any 1P monkey business. Long, hard consideration of the effect on the game as a whole must be brought to bear -- the entire nature of a game can be changed in an instant in the interest of convenience and expediency. And once expressed from the tube . . .
What is sauce for a goose is not necessarily sauce for the gander.
"Richie [Florence] was an innovator. Against my objections (I was his TD), he went to Texas Express rules for the televised Caesar's events. He was looking for a way to speed up the game. A typical Race To Eleven used to take an hour and a half to two hours. The new rules cut that down 15-30 minutes.
Texas Express rules were first formulated by John McChesney, Robin Adair and Randy G. who posts on here. They used them for the Texas Express 9-Ball Tour in the early 80's. It was a major changeover from the old "Push Out" 9-Ball.
The big differences with the new rules, you must make a legal shot or it is a foul and the opponent gets ball in hand. Any balls made on a foul, stay down. With the old rules, you could "roll out" at any time, and your opponent had the option to shoot or pass back to you. If you fouled on your second stroke, your opponent got ball in hand behind the line. There was no ball in hand anywhere on the table.
All balls made on a foul would respot, and the incoming player shot from behind the line. So, all balls came back up and the incoming player shot from behind the line. He could also pass this shot back to the player who had fouled, and make him shoot at the respotted balls.
Thus you had to shoot many spot shots. It was a like a free throw in basketball. A good player could make it 9 out of 10 times. The game took longer and the better player had more of an advantage, due to the fact that more decisions had to be made. And more tough shots had to be shot as well. That's it in a nutshell."
Old School Roll-Out v/s.Texas Express 9 ball
Many players differ in opinion as to which style was best for pool gambling..Most of the old timers.. even in todays times.. would much rather play roll out than Texas Express style 9b..
This is a question for Jay or Freddie:In Richie Florence's Tournaments in the 80's (at the stardust?) was it roll out 9ball played in them?..I can't recall...
One more question..I've always heard talk about Denny Searcy but never saw him play..was he THAT good or what?
Many players differ in opinion as to which style was best for pool gambling..Most of the old timers.. even in todays times.. would much rather play roll out than Texas Express style 9b..
This is a question for Jay or Freddie:In Richie Florence's Tournaments in the 80's (at the stardust?) was it roll out 9ball played in them?..I can't recall...
One more question..I've always heard talk about Denny Searcy but never saw him play..was he THAT good or what?
Check out entire thread for an OG perspective on the subject. Plus, search AZB for more.
The really interesting thing, to me, is that a well-established game of pool, with many devoted followers, was scrapped to satisfy television's need for regulating time/game length. 9 Ball Roll/Push Out's fate provides an excellent cautionary tale for DCC, and others, whenever they begin to consider any 1P monkey business. Long, hard consideration of the effect on the game as a whole must be brought to bear -- the entire nature of a game can be changed in an instant in the interest of convenience and expediency. And once expressed from the tube . . .
What is sauce for a goose is not necessarily sauce for the gander.
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Jump was full cue only?
Jump cues were not common until about 1990. By then roll-out/push-out was pretty much gone.
There may have been some players doing shaft jumping earlier, but that was primitive compared to jumping today.
Why did the push out never get implemented in any other game?
If you don't push using the tip of the cueball. That's a foul.
Played a guy who used to just tap the cueball with the ferrule of his cue and thought it was ok.
Or just rollout.
Yes, that’s certainly true, but two shot roll out just sounds more professional.
I wonder what it would look like if Matchroom brought back - BIH behind the line on a scratch after the break, with or without spotting balls. I think some little tweak to add a little more variety wouldn't be a bad thing.
Everybody always discounts the viewers on here. Football is probably the most confusing game there is, with a million different rules, but men still love it. Nobody turns away when they change a rule either.
Everybody always discounts the viewers on here. Football is probably the most confusing game there is, with a million different rules, but men still love it. Nobody turns away when they change a rule either.
It would be fun to see what the pros would leave for a shot....would need to not allow jumps or every other pushout would be a jump contest.
What game are you boys playing??
For sure
Although jumping 3 shots in a row versus old timer Angry Larry was a career highlight for me. Dude can unglued.
Nah... Just takes longer to say. Burns more O2. Save the rainforest dude.Yes, that’s certainly true, but two shot roll out just sounds more professional.
