crosseyedjoe said:
couldn't agree more. professional levels should be played differently. as for us, let's practice on our softbreaks and run-outs !
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9 BALL: to modify or not to modify ?
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couldn't agree more. professional levels should be played differently. as for us, let's practice on our softbreaks and run-outs !
Neil said:
Exactly. One of the main reasons that the U.S. players are underdogs on the international scene is the fact that there is no major 9 ball tour. Everybody here switched to 10 ball and we got left in the dust.
So what do we do? Do we abandon 9 ball in favor of 10 ball and allow the rest of the world to continue to dominate us at the WPC?
Or... do we get back to the practice table and use some good ol' American ingenuity to reclaim our spot atop the throne of the pool world?
It's our choice to make, and I really don't like what I'm hearing.
Neil said:
I thought of that already. I don't think that it's a real change but a sort of small modification to increase the skill difficulty for these pros. as any other sport or game, 9-ball is evolving. some games must be played differently from the rest. basketball was played differently now than was before. the invention of the 3 sec rule, goaltending, 5 secs,10 secs, 24 sec shotclock, and so on and so forth. whether some of us like it or not, there would definitely be changes.
teebee said:
Exactly. I think we can all agree that there is more luck involved on the break than on a jump--what's funny is that people are claiming that the jump involves too much luck and that breaking soft and running out repeatedly is fine, because it's more skillful.
It seems you have a bad habit of putting two different peoples statements together , making them one and the making a comment out of it. 
I don't see where anyone related the 2 in the way you suggest , I certainly didn't.
Maybe I'm just overly sensitive today, it could be my time of the month.
I don't see where anyone related the 2 in the way you suggest , I certainly didn't.
Maybe I'm just overly sensitive today, it could be my time of the month.
All this talk of changing the rules is based on the game at PRO level, which 99.999% of us cannot play at. Do you see average golfers playing a 490 yard par 4 just because it was too easy for Tiger? No. We have Tiger tees (490 yards) and regular tees (390 yards) 9-ball rules work for the vast majority of us. If you want to makes changes to the rules to eliminate luck for Pro events that is cool, but asking the average player to conform to rules like call shot, 9-on-the-break respot etc.. makes no sense. Golf has the pro game and the regular game, just like snooker does.
Also, for those that think the soft break is 'wussy, break like a girl' blah blah .. wake up. These are professional sportman trying to win. In any sport or game, you employ the best strategy to win the game. To win a game of 9-ball, you must make the 9-ball. There are no points for getting the best radar gun score. I mean should a chess Grandmaster scrap his opening book moves because they gives him a better chance to win? Instead, just go cavalier and get the Queen out right away perhaps? Do tennis players stop hitting their second serves with control, not power, because it gives them a better chance to win? Instead, blast the second serves 150 mph perhaps? Do quarterbacks scrap going for short running plays on 2nd and 1, because it gives them a better chance to win? Instead, just go for a cavelier 60 yard play every time perhaps? Do we scrap bunting in baseball because it gives you a better chance to win? Perhaps just go for a home run at every pitch perhaps?
Professional athletes and sportman employ the best tactics to excel at their game. They are also (especially in pool) playing for their livelihood. Do you really think any player should give up the skill and stategy at their disposal to win the game just because you think it's girly? Come on.
SJM has it spot on. The rules don't need changing. The game is 9-ball. Skilled professionals play to win. If you disagree, we can make the Home Run Derby the real World Series, Arena Football as the real Superbowl, and the Blitz Chess the real world championship.
Also, for those that think the soft break is 'wussy, break like a girl' blah blah .. wake up. These are professional sportman trying to win. In any sport or game, you employ the best strategy to win the game. To win a game of 9-ball, you must make the 9-ball. There are no points for getting the best radar gun score. I mean should a chess Grandmaster scrap his opening book moves because they gives him a better chance to win? Instead, just go cavalier and get the Queen out right away perhaps? Do tennis players stop hitting their second serves with control, not power, because it gives them a better chance to win? Instead, blast the second serves 150 mph perhaps? Do quarterbacks scrap going for short running plays on 2nd and 1, because it gives them a better chance to win? Instead, just go for a cavelier 60 yard play every time perhaps? Do we scrap bunting in baseball because it gives you a better chance to win? Perhaps just go for a home run at every pitch perhaps?
Professional athletes and sportman employ the best tactics to excel at their game. They are also (especially in pool) playing for their livelihood. Do you really think any player should give up the skill and stategy at their disposal to win the game just because you think it's girly? Come on.
SJM has it spot on. The rules don't need changing. The game is 9-ball. Skilled professionals play to win. If you disagree, we can make the Home Run Derby the real World Series, Arena Football as the real Superbowl, and the Blitz Chess the real world championship.
Actually, what they should do is drop that retarded speed pool, and make it a break competition only...9 ball, hard, fast, huge breaks! I would watch that all day.
hobokenapa said:
Great post, but I just wanted to disagree with this one little point... I think the 9-on-the-break respot for an amateur makes just as much sense to me as for a pro. Granted, the pros are making their living off of pool, so in that sense it's more important, but there are things to consider at the amateur level too.
For one, amateurs are typically stuck with shorter races. Sometimes they can be as short as race-to-five or even four. Also amateurs do not get the luxury of brand new cloth that can be set up to yield perfect racks easily. So basically, through no real fault of the racker and through mostly luck of the breaker, 25% of the match can be gone in an instant. I'm not saying we should remove all luck from the game, but the 9-ball on the break is the absolute worst, IMO.
As a quick case study, I played an opponent this week who I was a heavy favorite to beat. On my second break, the 9-ball shot straight into the corner, and he made the comment that he's not even going to bother coming next week.
After that break, I showed him what type of gap in the rack would cause the 9-ball to go in on the break, so that he could try to protect himself from getting ripped off again.
However, later on I noticed that on this particular table it was nearly impossible to get both balls behind the 9-ball frozen to it, while still getting the rest of the rack tight. So the racker is basically forced to choose between (a) giving up a relatively high probably of a 9-ball snap, (b) giving a bad rack to his opponent, or (c) taking a half hour of back breaking labor to give a rack that is fair to both players.
Fortunately, not all tables are that bad, but some of them are. I know the rule isn't going to change and I feel that it's generally better not to complain about things, but this one aspect of 9-ball can be pretty ridiculous at times.
ispoke to someone today who is involved in this kinda stuff down the road, meaning changing the rules and equipment to eliminate 10 packs, he said they are gonna spot the 9 on the rack(this eliminates the wing ball going in 492 times in a row), use a break box, tighten the pockets and requirre 3(i think) balls come past the side pocket.
I like this better than alternating breaks because if someone can run out from here the deserve a chance to break, Alternating breaks is to much of a penality or equilizer, make the game toughter with equipment not rules on who breaks when, I think thats a good plan.
I like this better than alternating breaks because if someone can run out from here the deserve a chance to break, Alternating breaks is to much of a penality or equilizer, make the game toughter with equipment not rules on who breaks when, I think thats a good plan.
Fatboy said:
not bad at all.
Tighter pocket for 9-ball is a good idea.
They should rack up all 15 balls with the one as the head ball and the nine in the middle. After the break any ball above the 9 numerically is removed from the table. They'll break em hard then!
Blackjack said:I can guarantee you that they are not having these kinds of debates in Taiwan or Manila.
Seriously, nothing needs to be changed. There have always been flaws in the game, and that is the nature of it. If you don't like the soft break, then keep your opponent in the chair and keep him from breaking. If you don't like jump cues, lock your opponent up against a ball where he can't jump.
15-20 years ago the big issue was break cues and jump cues. The PBT voted them out one year only to see them return shortly thereafter. Then came the break box, which took away the side break. That didn't last long either. We also heard about slow players, should you be seated or can you stand while you're opponent is shooting, are you allowed to have a glass of water with ice in it or not (ice and glass makes noise)... etc, etc, etc.
Then... just when you though you'd heard everything, everybody started to complain that the matches were too long. They shortened the races from 13 to 11, then to 9. Now you turn on TV and you see short races to 7. Those matches are alternating break because a lot of people complained that "winner breaks" was unfair. Then we started hearing about how "true double elimination" took too long, so TD's started implementing one extended set in the finals to "speed things up".
None of these changes proved anything. Changing the game to 10 ball solves nothing but to add an extra ball. There are guys down here on the Florida Pro Tour that have mastered the 10 ball break too. It's just a matter of time before we start hearing the complaints about that. Don't even get me started on the phenolic tip debates.
Leave the games alone. Players are finding ways to win, and they will always come up with something new to adapt to the conditions and the equipment and the rule changes. 9 ball is a beautiful game that is played best when we don't mess with it.
That'll do. Let's leave it alone. The rules are fine as they are. If you want to win then bloody well play to win!
whats the scoop? why are so many of you so irritated with the soft break? it seems strange to me. Billiards is supposed to be a precision, finesse game its the skill that makes it appealing. muscle power, age, sex, none of that matters as long as the ball falls in the hole. I don't understand mens billiards vs womens billiards in the same way I understand mens basketball vs womens basketball. on the slate all that matters is who can make the ball fall.
I have a softish break in all games there are rare OB shots that I shoot harder than my break shot. my break is just a stiff stop shot with more follow through for most games.
someone please explain to me the advantage of a jack it up and smash'em break shot over a controlled precision shot. the game is supposed to be about control.... right?
I have a softish break in all games there are rare OB shots that I shoot harder than my break shot. my break is just a stiff stop shot with more follow through for most games.
someone please explain to me the advantage of a jack it up and smash'em break shot over a controlled precision shot. the game is supposed to be about control.... right?
Blackjack said:I can guarantee you that they are not having these kinds of debates in Taiwan or Manila.
Seriously, nothing needs to be changed. There have always been flaws in the game, and that is the nature of it. If you don't like the soft break, then keep your opponent in the chair and keep him from breaking. If you don't like jump cues, lock your opponent up against a ball where he can't jump.
15-20 years ago the big issue was break cues and jump cues. The PBT voted them out one year only to see them return shortly thereafter. Then came the break box, which took away the side break. That didn't last long either. We also heard about slow players, should you be seated or can you stand while you're opponent is shooting, are you allowed to have a glass of water with ice in it or not (ice and glass makes noise)... etc, etc, etc.
Then... just when you though you'd heard everything, everybody started to complain that the matches were too long. They shortened the races from 13 to 11, then to 9. Now you turn on TV and you see short races to 7. Those matches are alternating break because a lot of people complained that "winner breaks" was unfair. Then we started hearing about how "true double elimination" took too long, so TD's started implementing one extended set in the finals to "speed things up".
None of these changes proved anything. Changing the game to 10 ball solves nothing but to add an extra ball. There are guys down here on the Florida Pro Tour that have mastered the 10 ball break too. It's just a matter of time before we start hearing the complaints about that. Don't even get me started on the phenolic tip debates.
Leave the games alone. Players are finding ways to win, and they will always come up with something new to adapt to the conditions and the equipment and the rule changes. 9 ball is a beautiful game that is played best when we don't mess with it.
I'm with you. Some people thinks that they are so clever and always wanting attention. --- Hail Mary Shot, I mean you.
I would change two things to the rack in order to create more chaos for the player. One, randomize the balls and two, have there be more than one spot to rack the balls on. In bowling they bowl on two lanes to keep a guy from throwing the same exact ball everytime.
I think in 9 ball they should have four spots in a diamond formation each about 2 inches from each other and every time the balls are racked the one ball goes on a different spot. This would eliminate the same wing ball going in every time. I just watched about 50 racks of pool and the same wing ball fell nearly 100 percent of the time. Every rack came down to whether the one ball came off the rail enough to pocket it in the side or corner.
I love pool more than most and watching the soft break was painful and my break sucks and I would love to be able to play on a table like this and predictably make a ball on the break and have a shot at the one.
I think in 9 ball they should have four spots in a diamond formation each about 2 inches from each other and every time the balls are racked the one ball goes on a different spot. This would eliminate the same wing ball going in every time. I just watched about 50 racks of pool and the same wing ball fell nearly 100 percent of the time. Every rack came down to whether the one ball came off the rail enough to pocket it in the side or corner.
I love pool more than most and watching the soft break was painful and my break sucks and I would love to be able to play on a table like this and predictably make a ball on the break and have a shot at the one.
Let's face it, pros have made 9-ball boring to watch. They are just too good at it. That's why when one player gets a lucky roll, 9 on the break, or is breaking better than the other guy he always wins the match. It's still a good game for the average players to gamble, but for top pros it should not and never will show whose best. I can see why TV wouldn't buy 15 ball rotation, but 10 ball should not be a problem. Hell they hardly buy 9-ball as it is. Johnnyt
