9b Spot Opinions Needed

[pt109]

(no pattern racking allowed; just throw them in wherever they land )and in the 'call 7-8 game' either of those potted on the break must be spotted at the end of breakers inning.

The six is wild so it will count as a win on the break if green light is breaking

If the call seven or eight ball is made by Greenlight called in a particular pocket then he wins 9 ball does not have to be called whoever pots it wins the rack

If green light makes the seven or eight in a pocket he did not call they stay down except on the break they would be spotted at the end of his inning. If shortstop pots the six during the course of the rack it stays down.

Table is a standard 5 inch Corner Pocket gold crown

I have never heard of giving a wild ball with no pattern racking.
The 9-ball is pattern racked to the safest place....so are spot balls.

If both people agree to no pattern racking, it’s hard to predict the outcome....
...’cause one or both don’t understand the situation....
...it’d be like betting on a cat race.....

 

[ShootingArts]

a great truth

There is almost no game the apa7 could win.

I played a lot of shorstops/Open players in Philly in the past 20 years. I kept records. My records told me almost no matter the weight, I could not beat them. I'm talking about the called 5 out in 9 ball. Or 15-5 in one hole. Or 5 pockets to a back in back-pocket. When the skill is too severe a difference, its just no good. I was a strong C I'd say at the time, which is probably an APA 6 I'd guess, maybe even 7.

YMMV

Not just this match-up, any match-up. If there is a big difference in skill level you can bet the player giving the spot every time. You will win far more than you lose. The reason is simple. The lesser player may dig deep and find one higher gear, the better player can keep digging deeper and may find three more gears if he needs them. The much better player not only has a much better physical game, he has a much better mental game.

Back before the nine ball break was doped I knew a player that would take the breaks and all the other player had to do was hit the proper ball to win. Sounds huge but if you can beat the ghost without ball in hand you can outrun this spot. The player knew he beat the ghost with no ball in hand well over half the time so having another player and having the luxury of playing a safety his confidence soared. While few amateurs would have believed it at the time, he was robbing.

Hu

 

[Black-Balled]

Back before the nine ball break was doped I knew a player that would take the breaks and all the other player had to do was hit the proper ball to win. Sounds huge but if you can beat the ghost without ball in hand you can outrun this spot. The player knew he beat the ghost with no ball in hand well over half the time so having another player and having the luxury of playing a safety his confidence soared. While few amateurs would have believed it at the time, he was robbing.

Hu

A man used to have to pay to learn that lesson.

Sometimes, more than once!

 

[DelawareDogs]

Here's the scenario:

A very strong shortstop & former road hustler is looking to make a game with an equivalent APA level 7 player whose strong points are he's a great shotmaker and vg position player but because he's so confident in his shot making ability he rarely plays safe and when he does he usually doesn't execute them well due to lack of familiarity. In fact, because of this I gave him his pool name, "Green Light" a tribute to his all offense game.

The spot:

The very strong shortstop is offering "Green Light" either the called 7-8 or the wild 6 in a race to 7.

Which do you think would offer "Green Light" the best chance to win? And why?

best,
brian kc

Well, KC -- Let us know the result of the spot and the final score, when the game is made! :thumbup:
Cheers

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Well, KC -- Let us know the result of the spot and the final score, when the game is made! :thumbup:
Cheers

"Green Light" went with the call 7-8 game and lost I think it was 7-5 or maybe even 7-4.

and I don't think I clarified it well but with the call 7-8, "Green Light" was not allowed to call a pocket for either ball on his breaks. If he made either or both on the break, they were spotted.

 

[JessEm]

"Green Light" went with the call 7-8 game and lost I think it was 7-5 or maybe even 7-4.

and I don't think I clarified it well but with the call 7-8, "Green Light" was not allowed to call a pocket for either ball on his breaks. If he made either or both on the break, they were spotted.

Nice shooting, K- chicken. How much did you win?

 

[ShootingArts]

One of the hardest times to keep my mouth shut

A man used to have to pay to learn that lesson.

Sometimes, more than once!

I was in a bar when a guy pulled the old balls off the table gag. Eight ball, you break then the opponent pulls however many balls you are being spotted off the table, his choice!

The guy was losing with two balls off the table, then three, then four. I think they were talking about five balls when I left. That spot ranks right up there with letting my sparring partner use the only pair of boxing gloves I had.

Hu

 

[jrctherake]

Not just this match-up, any match-up. If there is a big difference in skill level you can bet the player giving the spot every time. You will win far more than you lose. The reason is simple. The lesser player may dig deep and find one higher gear, the better player can keep digging deeper and may find three more gears if he needs them. The much better player not only has a much better physical game, he has a much better mental game.

Back before the nine ball break was doped I knew a player that would take the breaks and all the other player had to do was hit the proper ball to win. Sounds huge but if you can beat the ghost without ball in hand you can outrun this spot. The player knew he beat the ghost with no ball in hand well over half the time so having another player and having the luxury of playing a safety his confidence soared. While few amateurs would have believed it at the time, he was robbing.

Hu

I've witnessed several games like that.

I've played in a few.

No matter which end your on, it's not a fun place to be.

After remembering more about those days, it was before most all of the racking and breaking rules such as:

"X" number of balls have to cross string
Pattern racking in general
Before the safe break was outlawed
Before rack templates
Before push outs during game play was done away with

It takes a much better player today to outrun that spot than it did ~30 years ago.

 

[jrctherake]

Here's the scenario:

A very strong shortstop & former road hustler is looking to make a game with an equivalent APA level 7 player whose strong points are he's a great shotmaker and vg position player but because he's so confident in his shot making ability he rarely plays safe and when he does he usually doesn't execute them well due to lack of familiarity. In fact, because of this I gave him his pool name, "Green Light" a tribute to his all offense game.

The spot:

The very strong shortstop is offering "Green Light" either the called 7-8 or the wild 6 in a race to 7.

Which do you think would offer "Green Light" the best chance to win? And why?

best,
brian kc

I've met a few, very few APA 7's that would stand a chance with either bet.

In my area, to my knowledge, all of the players that are 7's in APA can't play dead on 9' equipment much less give a strong shortstops a game.

Heck, I would bet on a weak shortstop to beat the 7's in my area.

The APA 7's, as well as, the shortstops may vary in your areas.

In my mid to late 20's i was considered by most pros to be a weak.....very weak shortstop.

During those years, I gave the "if you can make contact, you win" spots. Goes without saying, I was extremely careful who I offered that to. Out of the few times I gave that spot, I only remember winning once. The other times, it was close but, it don't take much with that monkey on your back.

Anyways, yeah, the APA shot maker would be dead in the water either way when facing a truly strong shortstop.

Remember, a true shortstop is a player that is called a shortstop by any given pro, not someone that calls themselves a shortstop.

I was into bodybuilding in my youth. We had a saying, it was:

Your not a bodybuilder until a bonafide jufge calls you one


In pool, a known pro is the best judge, not other league players or hometown hero nut huggers.

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

Not just this match-up, any match-up. If there is a big difference in skill level you can bet the player giving the spot every time. You will win far more than you lose. The reason is simple. The lesser player may dig deep and find one higher gear, the better player can keep digging deeper and may find three more gears if he needs them. The much better player not only has a much better physical game, he has a much better mental game.

Back before the nine ball break was doped I knew a player that would take the breaks and all the other player had to do was hit the proper ball to win. Sounds huge but if you can beat the ghost without ball in hand you can outrun this spot. The player knew he beat the ghost with no ball in hand well over half the time so having another player and having the luxury of playing a safety his confidence soared. While few amateurs would have believed it at the time, he was robbing.

Hu

So, you're saying there are non pro players that can beat the 9 ball ghost without ball in hand ??? I'd like to see that ! In fact, I'd bet they can't do it ! Some of the TOP pros can break and run 40%+ under perfect conditions some times, but on pool room tables I would bet against lower level players.
Just my opinion, but I will bet on it.
9 ft GC or Diamond , 4 1/2 in pkts or smaller....lol.

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

Oh. On the spot prop, APA7 needs games on the wire and the 7 to have a chance.
Something like 4 on the wire and the wild 7 race to 7.
I doubt he could get any more games on the wire
unless the better player is mad at his bankroll ! lol

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Nice shooting, K- chicken. How much did you win?

I wasn't in this particular game, just a spectator for part of it.

but don't worry, I've been getting beatdowns from this same fellow, myself. :angry: :thumbup:

 

[boradriver]

I wasn't in this particular game, just a spectator for part of it.

but don't worry, I've been getting beatdowns from this same fellow, myself. :angry: :thumbup:

Hmmm maybe I know the participants.

 

[ShootingArts]

you are making conditions that didn't exist

So, you're saying there are non pro players that can beat the 9 ball ghost without ball in hand ??? I'd like to see that ! In fact, I'd bet they can't do it ! Some of the TOP pros can break and run 40%+ under perfect conditions some times, but on pool room tables I would bet against lower level players.
Just my opinion, but I will bet on it.
9 ft GC or Diamond , 4 1/2 in pkts or smaller....lol.

You are making conditions that didn't exist. The bet was on a seven foot Valley over twenty years ago. If you could break, drop a ball, and get a shot on the one ball you had a decent chance to run out. A short stop could and did rob in those conditions. Back then I think there was maybe one table in a seventy-five mile radius besides snooker tables that might have had something close to four and a half inch pockets. They weren't in vogue at the time.

Hu

 

[Gaelic7]

I’d say Green Light (that nickname cracks me up), needs the called 8 and as many games on the wire as he can negotiate.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

I’d say Green Light (that nickname cracks me up), needs the called 8 and as many games on the wire as he can negotiate.

you know these guys, Clint. Bobby laughed when I gave Cliff his pool name; Bobby said; "He never met a shot he didn't like"

funny and true!

 

[ibuycues]

Not with ball spots, anyway. To me, it sounds like the APA7 needs five or six games on the wire in a race to eleven. Ball spots just don't cut it when you're playing against a monster.

I absolutely agree with this.
Getting games on the wire is a much, much better approach for the APA 7.
Getting spotted balls is easily overcome by any real good, former road player.

Will Prout

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

You are making conditions that didn't exist. The bet was on a seven foot Valley over twenty years ago. If you could break, drop a ball, and get a shot on the one ball you had a decent chance to run out. A short stop could and did rob in those conditions. Back then I think there was maybe one table in a seventy-five mile radius besides snooker tables that might have had something close to four and a half inch pockets. They weren't in vogue at the time.

Hu

Never saw any discussion of a big pocket valley or old 7 foot table.
If that is the case, then it would favor the better player, but also turns the APA7
into a runout player also.
Big pockets bring speeds closer together as does very tight pockets bring speeds
closer together.

 

[Gaelic7]

you know these guys, Clint. Bobby laughed when I gave Cliff his pool name; Bobby said; "He never met a shot he didn't like"

funny and true!

There’s never been a truer statement! Hope this matchup continues, I’d like to catch the action. Definitely would be entertaining to watch.

What do you think is a fair spot? I say it has to be big because of the road player’s mental toughness.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

There’s never been a truer statement! Hope this matchup continues, I’d like to catch the action. Definitely would be entertaining to watch.

What do you think is a fair spot? I say it has to be big because of the road player’s mental toughness.

With the call 7-8 game "Green Light" lost either 7-5 or 7-4 so if that is a fair indicator then 2 or 3 beads on the wire might be the answer.

But as you know, this particular shortstop has the ability to clamp down so maybe 2-3 games in a race to 7 still might not be enough but I think it would be a good starting point.