a desparate one pocket rule question: need responses

G

gmillioni

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
we were playing a tournament. he was going to 35 balls, me 33. the score in his favor was 27 to 17. i was not counting balls, just focused on shooting when i could. at some point in the game he scratched, put up a ball, and i shot. he scratched again, put up a ball, whereupon i began my shot. at this point he mumbled something to me that he had won because he had already pocketed eight balls. i continued my shot and missed. at which point he took the table to shoot. the rack ended at 12 to 3 my favor which now tied the game at 30 to 30. he broke i made my 3 and won.

ok, when we went to pay the time the house man asked who won. by the way he had been watching the game. i said i won. the controversy is that at some point my opponent said he had made the required eight balls and should have won.

now my opponent did not at any time demonstrate how many balls he made. he never took balls out of his pocket to show how many he had. he didnt stop me from continuing to shoot even after he spotted his ball (which in essence left him with seven if indeed he had eight) and he made no fuss about it except when he scratched again and said he had had made eight balls.

on my side i have no idea if at any time during the rack he had eight or not. i didnt even know how many until the rack was finished. the house man said the owner/tournament director, who wasnt even there, would have to determine if my opponent won or not.

this happened saturday afternoon 4/24. please post your opinions.

gerald
 
First, if you're relying on your memory to keep track of balls, you have no leg to stand on. You were playing in a tournament, and there should have been some sort of scorekeeping sheet, especially in a game like 1-pkt, where ball counts are instrumental, and balls are respotted (and sometimes "owed", until you pocket a ball). Without some sort of scoresheet it's your word against his. Second, you said the guy at the desk (who assumedly was the TD) was watching the match, and declared that you won. What's the misunderstanding?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
I'm with Jay on that one....

I've been in situations where my opponent had their number bout could only count at a 3yr old level, game comes down to one ball and they think they still need one i make the ball and they thought i won....hell I'm giving the weight, If they want to give it back then OK USA! Then pay out.....IT'S NOT YOUR JOB TO COUNT FOR YOUR OPPONENT! NOT EVER! If they can't keep track of their balls then they should stick to 8 and 9 ball.

Being an idoit never pays, "I didn't know" "I lost count" etc are not valid excuses.
 
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one pocket ruling

Scott Lee said:
gmillion...How many more posters do you need, to give you the same response we did, before you're "convinced"? :confused: :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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its not me needing convincing. i believed i won. the whole thing is that the room thinks i cheated by not giving the opponent the game because he said he made his required eight. my point is that he is the one who continued to shoot, scratched, and that put him behind on count again. and that he did not attempt to show his eight winning balls at the time he thought he had them.

this issue is being decided by the room owner who wasnt there at the time. the house man only took the money and recorded the game as played. he didnt derclare me the winner. i said i won.

i just want to hear responses. actually BCA rule book has no ruling on a player continuing to shoot after having pocketed the winning ball. BCA only says its the players responsibility to count their balls. gerald
 
Alot of it depends on what type of guy you are. No need to elaborate on it, I'm not the ethics committee.
 
I don't play any one pocket let alone any tourneys. If you are going to a set number of points don't you play through the whole rack? You said the rack went 13-2 in your favor. If you play through the whole rack (which is how I took it) what does him making 8 have to do with it? You keep playing anyways.

Either way I am with everyone else. If he isn't paying attention to his score it's not your problem.

Maybe I am missing the obvious. It's happened before.

Junior
 
Maybe he was just mumbling to himself that he had made enough balls to win if he hadn't scratched...at any rate if he didn't argue the outcome, he didn't think he'd won.
 
pool_rob9 said:
Maybe he was just mumbling to himself that he had made enough balls to win if he hadn't scratched...at any rate if he didn't argue the outcome, he didn't think he'd won.
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That was exactly my thought ... that he was mumbling that he already won cause he sunk his 8 balls ... but since he sunk the 8th ball and scratched it didn't actually count. If he honestly thought he had won the game why wouldn't he have come over and given you a handshake and said "nice game". If he honestly just lost track and it was after you had taken your next shot before he realized, it's too late. Once you hit your shot he can't cry foul on anything previous, imho.
 
gmillioni said:
we were playing a tournament. he was going to 35 balls, me 33. the score in his favor was 27 to 17. i was not counting balls, just focused on shooting when i could. at some point in the game he scratched, put up a ball, and i shot. he scratched again, put up a ball, whereupon i began my shot. at this point he mumbled something to me that he had won because he had already pocketed eight balls.

((((this is the point where you stand up and allow him to show he has the required count to win.))))


i continued my shot and missed.

((((this guy should have spoke up again, stopped the shooting, and demonstrated he had the required balls to win)))


at which point he took the table to shoot. the rack ended at 12 to 3 my favor which now tied the game at 30 to 30. he broke i made my 3 and won.

(((Im not quite following the score, but It sounds like there is no way he could have had enough to win at any point)))


((( However, this is where in theory he lost the game, if in fact he did have enough balls to win, by not produceing his score/balls to win and continuation of play, and any director would award you the game. If indeed he had eight, shot again and scratched, well well, he didnt win, he still needs one.

Now is where you decide if this guy is a valued friend or not, and do a recount by memory and forgive his continuation of play, or replay the set, or take the techical win by default on his part by his continuation of game. Cause if hes a friend, even being right, doesnt win in his mind because he will never think he lost. And even by winning, you both lose.
You could try to give an explanation of rules... its sorta like getting the 8 ball spot in 9-ball, making the eight, but continue to shoot, locking up the nine. One second you "won" .....next you lost.))))




ok, when we went to pay the time the house man asked who won. by the way he had been watching the game. i said i won. the controversy is that at some point my opponent said he had made the required eight balls and should have won.

now my opponent did not at any time demonstrate how many balls he made. he never took balls out of his pocket to show how many he had. he didnt stop me from continuing to shoot even after he spotted his ball (which in essence left him with seven if indeed he had eight) and he made no fuss about it except when he scratched again and said he had had made eight balls.

on my side i have no idea if at any time during the rack he had eight or not. i didnt even know how many until the rack was finished. the house man said the owner/tournament director, who wasnt even there, would have to determine if my opponent won or not.

this happened saturday afternoon 4/24. please post your opinions.

gerald
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FESBGoldsboro
 
jay helfert said:
You snooze you lose. You won!
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It's the truth and I just hate it. They play the snooze rule around here and they don't put coins on the rail but car keys in the pockets. Well I'm dam near deaf now and I don'thear the balls hit the keys anymore. I am forever snozing the balls they owe and I get spittin mad about it. Of course nobody to blame but me!

This isalso the only place I have ever been where they play a frozen cue ball. And this is the town Banana's Rodriguez grew up in!!
 
I'm with Jay......you won.

If the guy had actually already won, he would've made a bigger deal out of it, more so than just mumbling about it during the match.
 
gmillioni said:
its not me needing convincing. i believed i won. the whole thing is that the room thinks i cheated by not giving the opponent the game because he said he made his required eight. my point is that he is the one who continued to shoot, scratched, and that put him behind on count again. and that he did not attempt to show his eight winning balls at the time he thought he had them.

this issue is being decided by the room owner who wasnt there at the time. the house man only took the money and recorded the game as played. he didnt derclare me the winner. i said i won.

i just want to hear responses. actually BCA rule book has no ruling on a player continuing to shoot after having pocketed the winning ball. BCA only says its the players responsibility to count their balls. gerald
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Ahhh, a whole different problem, (depends on what you mean by room, is that all the rest of the players, or just the house man)

IF ITS THE MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS the gossip and the plot thickens, at this point, no matter what explanation you give, rules you produce, or decision of the TD, by winning, you still lose. Tough situation. I don't know what you were playing for, in principal it doesn't matter, but to ask for a replay or conceed a loss, may be the easiest way out. And even then, it may be impossible to unscramble that egg, but the players at least wont be talking about it 10+ years from now. But then stand by your principals and whats right is right. Tough choice. Sorta like having to call your pocket and your op shoots the call 8 in the hole its locked up in without calling it.
 
And the winner is.............

Bill Rowsey here, owner southaven recreation center, in mississippi. We've had many of these "schedule your own match" one-pocket tournaments, these are 4 dime events, the winner gets $1000.

Sure I wish it hadn't happened but you snooze you loose. As with golf, you won, you didn't sign your score card, sorry! I hate it, I've got to stand by this ruling.

Thank goodness this is a double elimination event and the opponent is on one loose.
 
memphisbill said:
Bill Rowsey here, owner southaven recreation center, in mississippi. We've had many of these "schedule your own match" one-pocket tournaments, these are 4 dime events, the winner gets $1000.

Sure I wish it hadn't happened but you snooze you loose. As with golf, you won, you didn't sign your score card, sorry! I hate it, I've got to stand by this ruling.

Thank goodness this is a double elimination event and the opponent is on one loose.
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There is your answer. When I get to eight, I stop and tell my opponent and the game is over, ie no more shooting. If your playing the rack out, get acknowledgement from your opponent before continuing. If one of these two things do not happen, then I snooze and the game continues.
 
I must be missing something here, how do you play One Pocket needing 30+ balls to win?? I've always only played by games, not balls.
 
If you have to quote BCA rules for One Pocket, you need a better defense. As far as I know, the BCA has never had a One Pocket tournament or league in their 64 years of existence.

If you want to quote some rules, check OnePocket.org.
These rules are being followed by a lot of experienced One Pocket players.

Very common in One Pocket, "You snooze you lose". I've been running Monthly One Pocket tournaments for the last 7 years and have had ball count issues come up a lot. The final decision is 'you snooze your lose'

When a player thinks he has won the match and doesn't do anything about the WIN (i.e. stops playing and breaks down his cue) the game is over unless the count is wrong, which is easy to determine.

To continue play until your opponent wins is absolutely IGNORANT. Why would anyone do this unless they think they LOST!!!!!

Why would anyone even consider this a valid reason to dispute, is beyond my understanding.

IN every pool game, when their is a winner of a game, it stops and another game begins.

If your opponent is someone that the house man and/or TD thinks would be idiotic enough to pull this stunt, there shouldn't be a problem, but if there is a 'brother-in-law' or "special friend" included, the worst that should happen is 'play the match OVER'
 
My guess is that this is a handicapped tournament. You have to pocket your number of balls first.
In the Original Post, the required match score stated that it was a 35 to 33 race. First opponent to reach their required number wins.

The opponent was on 27 balls and only needed 8 to win. I thought this was very well stated in the OP.

But, there are a lot of players that aren't familiar with One Pocket or with the handicap method of assigning points to players. This brings in more players and builds up the pot for the better players. It also give lessor skilled or experienced players close up exposure to the games better players.

Pushout said:
I must be missing something here, how do you play One Pocket needing 30+ balls to win?? I've always only played by games, not balls.
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