A differant greatest thread

walrus_3d said:
If you read anything about Bruce Lee, you'd know he was a competitive martial artist well before he did the TV show and films. He mastered several extant forms of eastern martial arts before creating his own, taught for most of his life, and also pioneered new methods in nutrition and exercise. Definitely, Bruce Lee belongs on the list.
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This is a huge derail, but...respectfully I would suggest reading up more on the subject. Lee was an actor and trainer, with no actual verified fighting record. At all. Most of the authorized biographies (notably, his wife's, which led to that hilarious "Dragon" movie "biography") are laughable attempts at marketing and image building to keep the gravy train flowing. His entire 'record' consists of fights like "3 guys in alley" "extra on movie set" "secret match against kung-fu master" "fight only witnessed by some guy selling his book" etc etc. Bruce fans/fantasists even like to trot out the story from Lee's wife that he beat some 3 time hong kong teen boxing champ in the 50's ('Gary Elm', iirc) in a boxing match that lasted a few minutes....people have been looking for years trying to verify that guy even existed, much less was a city boxing champ. That's how all the stories of Lee actually fighting go.

It's all hooey. He was in great shape and was a good personal trainer, but most importantly, he was a good self promoter. A legit "fighter" he was not...no matter if he beat up Chuck Norris in a movie or not. (Chuck actually competed in real life and was a champion in his discipline, so no disrespect meant to him at all :) ).
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Greatest Military General: George Washington - Revolutionary War

He didn't do it because he wanted to, he did it because he had to. He used some very excellent tactics, including numerous surprise attacks, which led to numerous victories during the war.

He led the Continental Army for six grueling years. He arranged for much of the financing of the war. The "Delaware River" crossing was historic and American troops captured Trenton and Princeton, NJ which saved the revolutions cause and help secure the eventual victory.

Eventually, the larger and better equipped troops of the King finally surrendered. With the final results having secured this country's founding against the British Crown. Obvious there is a lot more to the story, but this is a nut shell version.

You can argue all day there were better tactical generals throughout the course of history, but the actual impact to us (USA) and the world cannot be matched. There was so much more on the line during his leadership.

We would not even be reading AZB because it would not exist.
And he played billiards...... how strong is that...

Give it up for George !!
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Amen - He was prosperous before the War broke out and stood to lose a lot if defeated -btw - Ho Chi Minh was inspired by him. He really held it together.
 
worth remembering

maldito said:
Amen - He was prosperous before the War broke out and stood to lose a lot if defeated -btw - Ho Chi Minh was inspired by him. He really held it together.
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Quite an understatement, "stood to lose a lot". When they pledged "our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor" The first two were on the line and of course their names would have been reviled for as long as they were remembered. Some were executed, some had their family killed also. Quite a few of them lost their fortunes including some that made loans to support the war effort that were never repaid. These men truly risked all, some gave all. Had they lost the war few of our founding fathers would have been spared and their holdings would have almost certainly been forfeit too destroying their family's well being. If we were trying to decide the bravest they would certainly be in the running with any group. Audacity, they as a group probably are number one!

Hu
 
deadnutz said:
Lance Armstrong, the man was as dominant as a professional athlete can be. It had to be a pretty tough pill to swallow riding in the tour de France knowing the best you could do was finish second.
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I stopped reading this post right here at your comment...there is no question about that...Michael Jordan is right there nipping at his heals though....and ill throw something else out there...how about dippy for the biggest bets with the biggest spots??? hmmmm i dont think many could disagree with that
 
pt109 said:
Clint Eastwood as the best Western actor...among other things.

..he's the actor John Wayne was 'trying' to be
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come on how can you even say that! John wayne was making amazing movies before anybody even knew about clint eastwood, john wayne made it possible for people like clint eastwood (who is a favorite actor of mine) to actually make a living doing modern westerns after of course the old old westerns with gene autry
 
Alexander the Great conquered the known world in his 20s – never equaled.

The single most influential person in western history was Jesus Christ.

Imitated but never equaled – Socrates / Plato.
 
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This could be quite controversial, and i will go on record right now saying i DO NOT AGREE WITH WHAT HE DID....although he didnt quite succeed...you would almost have to put hitler on this list...yes alexander the great conquered the "KNOWN" world when he was in his 20s but that was back when it was rudimentary swords and bows and usually whoever had the most men in his army (with some strategy no doubt) usually was the victor. Hitler on the other hand took on the entire world when everybody had state of the art technology then so force numbers werent quite as big of a game changer...and he almost won...people dont realize just how close hitler was to actually succeeding at what he was trying. And for one man, with his one country (and a couple allies for a very short period) to take on the entire world and almost win...that takes smarts, balls, and tactical thinking beyond most peoples comprehension
 
Yeah but

Alexander used only state of the art technology.

He was young.

He did it and the feat has never been equaled though others tried.
 
hmmmm

JoeW said:
Alexander the Great conquered the known world in his 20s – never equaled.
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The territory he controlled was not all the large, probably not much larger then the US in square miles.

He was born into a royal family and was going to be king "automatically" unless he died before his father did. Yes, he was only 20, but the life expectancy back then was probably only 30. Heck, Alex was only in his early 30's when he kicked the bucket.

With all due respect to Alexander the Great, he expanded an empire, which dissappeared almost as soon as he died. Not a lasting or prominent legacy to say the least. He was an innovator and by all accounts a pretty darn good king for the day.

But say what you want about my man George. He was not born into politics or royalty, but risked everything he had including his life and that of his family, to defeat the greatest empire on the planet at the time.

With his gudiance and direction, the USA is still here and did not vanish when he passed away, but eventually became the greatest super power the world has ever seen. Not a bad life's work IMHO.
 
PoolBum said:
Dan patch is a legend. I have no qualms giving a pacer his due. I got to see Niatross race and he was no slouch either.

I've heard some people argue that Dr. Fager was better than Secretariat, but I say no horse in the history of creation beats Secretariat on June 9, 1973 at Belmont, and he was still only three years old!
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Well said. For those 2:24, he was as close to God incarnate as a horse as you can get, imho of course.
 
a sport

KMRUNOUT said:
Well said. For those 2:24, he was as close to God incarnate as a horse as you can get, imho of course.
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Secretariat was a sport, a freak. That is why his offspring never really came close to him that I know of. He was obviously well bred and would have been a stakes horse regardless but when he was examined after death they found his heart was healthy and roughly four times the size of the typical thoroughbred's. He could sprint further than any horse ever known. Regardless of why, winning the Belmont in the fashion he did defined him.

Just a chuckle, a man I met who was a friend of a friend bought the first foal from Secretariat. It was a test breeding with an old mare that happened to be ready to be covered at the right time. The foal was purchased for a quarter million when it was a few days old. As it was colorfully described to me, the foal wasn't fast enough to scatter it's own crap. Never came close to winning a race. I still think that Big Red was the most awesome athlete I have ever seen on four legs or two.

Hu

The Belmont: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS4f6wiQJh4
 
master_cueist said:
come on how can you even say that! John wayne was making amazing movies before anybody even knew about clint eastwood, john wayne made it possible for people like clint eastwood (who is a favorite actor of mine) to actually make a living doing modern westerns after of course the old old westerns with gene autry
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I'm probably harboring a grudge against John Wayne.
In 1969 I got 5-1 on Dustin Hoffman to win best actor....
...the day of the Academy awards, bet more at even money....
...that night I started laying 5-1.
Can anybody who's seen Midnight Cowboy tell me how Hoffman lost to
Wayne's role in True Grit?
...I got robbed!!!!!!!:angry:

sooo...I was gonna lay some Dirty Harry quotes on you....:smile:
...but I guess we can disagree and still get along...pilgrim...:cool:
 
JoeW said:
The single most influential person in western history was Jesus Christ.
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I agree...on this day in the year of our Lord 2011.
I think this might stand up to secular scrutiny also...
..especially if I use CE
 
ShootingArts said:
Secretariat was a sport, a freak. That is why his offspring never really came close to him that I know of. He was obviously well bred and would have been a stakes horse regardless but when he was examined after death they found his heart was healthy and roughly four times the size of the typical thoroughbred's. He could sprint further than any horse ever known. Regardless of why, winning the Belmont in the fashion he did defined him.

Just a chuckle, a man I met who was a friend of a friend bought the first foal from Secretariat. It was a test breeding with an old mare that happened to be ready to be covered at the right time. The foal was purchased for a quarter million when it was a few days old. As it was colorfully described to me, the foal wasn't fast enough to scatter it's own crap. Never came close to winning a race. I still think that Big Red was the most awesome athlete I have ever seen on four legs or two.

Hu

The Belmont: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS4f6wiQJh4
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I don't know crap about horse racing, but I learned from reading that Seabiscuit book a couple years ago that horses DO like to race each other, and it isn't just the jockey making them race, riderless horses will race each other if the rider falls off or whatever. Kind of interesting when you think about it. I remember years ago when the "50 greatest athletes of the 20th century" list came out Charles Barkley was laughing over Secretariat making the list and said "How the f*ck they gonna put a horse, an ANIMAL on there? Show me the horse who gets up in the gate to race without a rider whipping his butt before you put a horse on this list!" Which while funny at the time, apparently isn't true.

Sorry for derail, the talk of Secretariat reminded me of it. :)
 
Spider1 said:
I don't know crap about horse racing, but I learned from reading that Seabiscuit book a couple years ago that horses DO like to race each other, and it isn't just the jockey making them race, riderless horses will race each other if the rider falls off or whatever. Kind of interesting when you think about it. I remember years ago when the "50 greatest athletes of the 20th century" list came out Charles Barkley was laughing over Secretariat making the list and said "How the f*ck they gonna put a horse, an ANIMAL on there? Show me the horse who gets up in the gate to race without a rider whipping his butt before you put a horse on this list!" Which while funny at the time, apparently isn't true.

Sorry for derail, the talk of Secretariat reminded me of it. :)
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I loved this story.
I was a standard bred fan.
Trotting race...1970.....half mile track
.accident at the first turn....a driver fell off.
The driver-less horse galloped to the lead from dead last ...
..tucked into the rail and started trotting.
Twice he got passed and galloped to regain the lead.
He won the race by 3 lengths...scored himself perfectly....and trotted
back to the winners circle where he stood proudly.

The crowd gave him a standing ovation
 
pt109 said:
I loved this story.
I was a standard bred fan.
Trotting race...1970.....half mile track
.accident at the first turn....a driver fell off.
The driver-less horse galloped to the lead from dead last ...
..tucked into the rail and started trotting.
Twice he got passed and galloped to regain the lead.
He won the race by 3 lengths...scored himself perfectly....and trotted
back to the winners circle where he stood proudly.

The crowd gave him a standing ovation
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LOL awesome story!

Does a horse with no rider who wins the race still pay the people who picked it? :D
 
Spider1 said:
LOL awesome story!

Does a horse with no rider who wins the race still pay the people who picked it? :D
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The bettors do not win.
The owner wins no prize money.

But the horse should be treated like a champion.
 
lost my jockey and got busted

Spider1 said:
I don't know crap about horse racing, but I learned from reading that Seabiscuit book a couple years ago that horses DO like to race each other, and it isn't just the jockey making them race, riderless horses will race each other if the rider falls off or whatever. Kind of interesting when you think about it. I remember years ago when the "50 greatest athletes of the 20th century" list came out Charles Barkley was laughing over Secretariat making the list and said "How the f*ck they gonna put a horse, an ANIMAL on there? Show me the horse who gets up in the gate to race without a rider whipping his butt before you put a horse on this list!" Which while funny at the time, apparently isn't true.

Sorry for derail, the talk of Secretariat reminded me of it. :)
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There is of course a wee bit of hustling match racing horses too. I had been running my quarterhorse for awhile and we had managed to win each race although all were close, some very close. Unfortunately my horse and jockey parted company coming out the gates at a match track and my horse finished ahead eight or ten lengths in a 250 yard race. Lost the race and the hustle. He broke gates better than any full sized horse I have ever seen and was a cutting fool too.

While people do train and condition to enhance animal behavior you can't make an animal do something really well that it doesn't like to do. Drugs can't help a horse that is ready, what they can do is make a hurt horse or one that hates to run still run up to their potential. Of course in the case of the hurt horse people often cripple a horse for a short term gain that could have had years of profitable running in them.

Oh yeah, to get this back on track, Woody Stephens might have been the best distance trainer. Six or seven Belmonts, . . . in a row! Often with a distance horse though. It takes a monster to win the Kentucky Derby then shorten up and come back with a short turn around time to win the Preakness and then be able to run the longer distance at the Belmont.

Hu
 
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