Buddy is a member of the World Famous Lock Society.
Whats his name again, Dump Lock?
Whats his name again, Dump Lock?
A little Christmas present to everyone, challenge of champions video
- Thread starter Jpowell7575
- Start date
If Lebron joins, he can be No Lock.
Buddy seems to take most of the heat for this thing because he had to dump the finals, but it should all be shared equally.
Here are the names:
Mike Sigel, Buddy Hall, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Allen Hopkins, David Howard, Kim Davenport & Mike LeBron.
Lost a ton of respect for these guys after I found this out.
Surprised to see these so-called champions throw away their hearts for a few extra bucks.
Nice.
I agree, the commentator for the last match was Rempe, Rempe says at about 26:50 that funny things happen in pool, yea they sure do dont they Jim, and if you notice Rempe was making excuses the whole time about all the pressure because of the 50000 every time Hall missed one of those easy shots, the only pressure there was was on Lebron because he had to win and it showed, Rempe sounded just like the CREEP he is the whole match, and at the start of the match Hall was complaining to Helfert about some fan takings picture while he was getting ready to shoot, then you have all those innocent fans there watching and cheering for their guy to win, not having no idea that the winner was are readdy decided days ago, Buddy Hall has enough balls to charge fans at DCC 10 dollars for his STINKING autograph, Fuc_ him plus the other 7!
Well I think that the statute of limitations has run out and we should try to forgive this lapse in judgement.
Since then all these guys have given us some great pool, great experiences and good times. Allen Hopkins has allowed people to make thousand of fond memories and allowed many vendors to rake in a lot of money with the creation and ongoing production of the Super Billiards Expo. Buddy Hall is gracious and plays $5 pool with anyone who asks. Nick Varner has worked tirelessly to bring pool to people around the world. Kim Davenport created Target Pool and helped thousands to improve their game.
I say in the spirit if Christmas we should forgive the players and move on. These threads won't die, the video is up and I am sure someone else has already downloaded it. So with that in mind let it serve as a warning to all players but we don't need to crucify the players any longer. I am pretty sure that for someone like Buddy at least this has played on his conscience for a long time.
I've missed easier shots for more money and less money, hasn't everyone?
Today's the first time I ever saw these games and it wasn't what I expected at all. What stood out the most is Buddy breaks the balls better than I've ever seen him at 8/8. I ran the question through my mind several times "would I break the balls the best I've ever broke them at 8/8 if I was trying to lose?"
The answer is certainly "NO"! ...(100% of the time "the move" is to scratch or jump the table, and Buddy could do either one easily)..... As far as the combination in the last game, I've missed easier shots for more money and less money, hasn't everyone? I'm pretty sure with a 50k Winner Take All format it's going to encourage "savers," but that's a totally different scenario than throwing the tournament.
The shots I saw missed didn't look "scandalous" to me, and Accu stats has every champion in the world on camera missing easier shots than the ones Buddy missed. Just sayin - "the jury's still out on this one," unless there's solid proof, in this country it's still " innocent until proven guilty." I {like many others} admire and respect Buddy Hall and Mike Lebron and personally choose to give them the "benefit of the doubt," especially in an 9/8 match for 50K. It's "rare" for anyone to say they couldn't "dog it" under that kind of pressure. Just look at what the Mosconi Cup does to the world's best players. Pool is a game of nerves and sometimes......
:sorry:
The information I {personally} know is we played in the Challenge of Champions and didn't make a "saver." There's "those" that might think we did that year, but I can positively say it's false. At the Mosconi Cup in London you could bet on every game, and I know they take big action on snooker. If I'm not mistaken there's been some "controversial" snooker matches in the past, and their gambling is "alive and well."
Today's the first time I ever saw these games and it wasn't what I expected at all. What stood out the most is Buddy breaks the balls better than I've ever seen him at 8/8. I ran the question through my mind several times "would I break the balls the best I've ever broke them at 8/8 if I was trying to lose?"
The answer is certainly "NO"! ...(100% of the time "the move" is to scratch or jump the table, and Buddy could do either one easily)..... As far as the combination in the last game, I've missed easier shots for more money and less money, hasn't everyone? I'm pretty sure with a 50k Winner Take All format it's going to encourage "savers," but that's a totally different scenario than throwing the tournament.
The shots I saw missed didn't look "scandalous" to me, and Accu stats has every champion in the world on camera missing easier shots than the ones Buddy missed. Just sayin - "the jury's still out on this one," unless there's solid proof, in this country it's still " innocent until proven guilty." I {like many others} admire and respect Buddy Hall and Mike Lebron and personally choose to give them the "benefit of the doubt," especially in an 9/8 match for 50K. It's "rare" for anyone to say they couldn't "dog it" under that kind of pressure. Just look at what the Mosconi Cup does to the world's best players. Pool is a game of nerves and sometimes......
:sorry:The information I {personally} know is we played in the Challenge of Champions and didn't make a "saver." There's "those" that might think we did that year, but I can positively say it's false. At the Mosconi Cup in London you could bet on every game, and I know they take big action on snooker. If I'm not mistaken there's been some "controversial" snooker matches in the past, and their gambling is "alive and well."
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Would the guilty parties admitting they dumped be enough proof? I have been in philly when lebron admitted it was a setup and another poster has posted that after a few cocktail david Howard talked about the dump. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
I agree that it's not the worst thing in the world. The integrity of the game suffered. But most of them have all done a lot for the game throughout their careers. I don't judge them solely on this one mistake.
Is there really a duck?
Did Mike admit it to you? Did David H. tell you? Is there really a duck?
Did Mike admit it to you? Did David H. tell you? Is there really a duck?
The Challenge of Champions remained on ESPN's schedule without any questions.
My career started around the same time as this event and if "the integrity of the game suffered", we sure didn't see it. The four years following this Challenge of Champions were some of the best in (televised) Pocket Billiards history.
There were 8-10 Televised tournaments and the Challenge of Champions was 50k {first place}, now it's 25k - also the US OPEN was 50k first place and ALL the players got paid immediately, and now.......?
I'm not sure where or when "the integrity of the game suffered," but it must have been a long time after that tournament. ESPN, during the next 7 years did over 200 International Hours of programming a year. The Challenge of Champions remained on ESPN's schedule "business as usual".
(no pun intended)
My career started around the same time as this event and if "the integrity of the game suffered", we sure didn't see it. The four years following this Challenge of Champions were some of the best in (televised) Pocket Billiards history.
There were 8-10 Televised tournaments and the Challenge of Champions was 50k {first place}, now it's 25k - also the US OPEN was 50k first place and ALL the players got paid immediately, and now.......?
I'm not sure where or when "the integrity of the game suffered," but it must have been a long time after that tournament. ESPN, during the next 7 years did over 200 International Hours of programming a year. The Challenge of Champions remained on ESPN's schedule "business as usual".
(no pun intended)
My career started around the same time as this event and if "the integrity of the game suffered", we sure didn't see it. The four years following this Challenge of Champions were some of the best in (televised) Pocket Billiards history.
There were 8-10 Televised tournaments and the Challenge of Champions was 50k {first place}, now it's 25k - also the US OPEN was 50k first place and ALL the players got paid immediately, and now.......?
I'm not sure where or when "the integrity of the game suffered," but it must have been a long time after that tournament. ESPN, during the next 7 years did over 200 International Hours of programming a year. The Challenge of Champions remained on ESPN's schedule "business as usual".
Integrity and popularity are not synonyms CJ. If you think what they did is OK, and there is strong evidence that they dumped, then you have a different take than I do.
Pro wrestling is and has been very popular, but you don't see anyone betting on it.
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My career started around the same time as this event and if "the integrity of the game suffered", we sure didn't see it. The four years following this Challenge of Champions were some of the best in (televised) Pocket Billiards history.
There were 8-10 Televised tournaments and the Challenge of Champions was 50k {first place}, now it's 25k - also the US OPEN was 50k first place and ALL the players got paid immediately, and now.......?
I'm not sure where or when "the integrity of the game suffered," but it must have been a long time after that tournament. ESPN, during the next 7 years did over 200 International Hours of programming a year. The Challenge of Champions remained on ESPN's schedule "business as usual".
CJ, Is there a way to email or contact you directly? I have a question about an old road story and your PM box is full.
Thanks in advance,
Ian
Yes Mike admitted it to the room said it was 10 years ago no one cared ask Cornflakes he was also there
I was wondering if the guy who won it was in on it too? From this list,,I guess he was.
If they only won 40k off of all this,,,it hardly seems worth it. Seems at 20-1 they would have bet more. If it were a mil,,this all might make more sense,,but it's just silly to do all this for a small amount.
What were the payouts for 2nd,3rd,ect??? If they would have just went for it,,,hmmm??? Most still would have received a couple of k's
But if all were in on it,,it's a split between 90k. Prize money included.
I keep thinking ,,,IF,,, Buddy Hall would have had a change of heart in the finals and decided to win it,,,lmao. Now there is a movie !!! The rest would have been pissed. Might have killed him on the spot.lol
From the video ,,I think he forgot a few times,,and made some balls just because he could,,some hard shots. Then thought,,oh crap,,I shouldn't have done that.
It's harder than it seems to dump games,,,especially with cameras everywhere,,and no practice at it.
I'd assume it's very tough to get any kind of serious money on an underdog without either: the line changing dramatically, or making it very obvious what is going on.
Of course in this case, Buddy Hall's acting skills tick the second box all on their own.
I'm pretty sure it was winner take all. Also, it has been said by those that were there, bets were limited to $200 and after a few of those were made the line on Lebron was changed from 20-1 to 9-1.
CJ you know you're a smart guy.
I may be dumb, but I'm not blind is the phase that comes to mind. The overreacting on both parties, strange commentary, confirmation of this from well-respected people in the pool world, people who have witnessed confessions from the horses mouth...too much coincidence to turn a cheek.
I'm not saying these guys didn't do great things for pool, but this was not one of them, and I don't know how that can be argued. You don't brag about conning a tournament and losing intentionally because you'd rather have a guarantee at more money. I don't care who I'm playing, how can you feel good about yourself knowing you sacrificed your integrity and talent for pure greed? Would it be cool if we found out SVB, Hatch, Archer, Shuff and Dechaine purposefully lost the Mosconi Cup for extra money? Hope it was worth the tarnished image for it, forgetting something like this doesn't happen...look at Shoeless Joe
I may be dumb, but I'm not blind is the phase that comes to mind. The overreacting on both parties, strange commentary, confirmation of this from well-respected people in the pool world, people who have witnessed confessions from the horses mouth...too much coincidence to turn a cheek.
I'm not saying these guys didn't do great things for pool, but this was not one of them, and I don't know how that can be argued. You don't brag about conning a tournament and losing intentionally because you'd rather have a guarantee at more money. I don't care who I'm playing, how can you feel good about yourself knowing you sacrificed your integrity and talent for pure greed? Would it be cool if we found out SVB, Hatch, Archer, Shuff and Dechaine purposefully lost the Mosconi Cup for extra money? Hope it was worth the tarnished image for it, forgetting something like this doesn't happen...look at Shoeless Joe