A lot of low opinions on 9 ball, me included, what about 8?

O

Oregonmeds

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've always preferred 8 ball personally, never liked 9 ball or the way luck plays such a part in it, or how you can do all the work for your opponent if you miss the last ball and they get the game and often can take the break too and just keep control.

Alternating breaks doesn't seem to even things up. Older rules may have been more challenging spotting balls back if you scratch on the break, but nothing seems to fix flaws inherent in this game. I'm suprised it's so popular to be honest, it seems made for tv but not the best test of skill.

What do you all think of 8 ball? Is it the best test of skill and the best game for even competition with each player getting a chance or do you prefer straight pool or what?
 
I think 9 ball is a great game which requires a different approach. If you are 99% on an open four balls, you have to learn to make a couple early and duck hard to get your opponent in a miss or safe position. If you run hard at this skill level, 9 ball is a frustrating string of losses.

I like 8 ball as it is easier to play safe or learn to run out IMHO. The lack of shooting order seems to make for short position. I like this too.
 
8 ball can be a challenging game---however it can be frustrating when everybody seems to play by different rules. League play has somewhat helped clear this up but it seems like a disagreement comes up evertime I play at a different place.
 
I had a pro tell me at valley forge when talking about 9 ball that he sees a lot of good 9 ball players play great 8 ball even when they rarely play it. But rarely does he see someone who plays 8 ball all the time not struggle when they play 9 ball. I've now gone to playing 9 ball exclusively except 8 ball leagues or a tournament and so far he's right. My position play is now better and I have no problem when I have to play 8 ball. I used to struggle when I played 9 ball before because I played 8 ball 90 percent of the times.
 
Oregonmeds said:
I've always preferred 8 ball personally, never liked 9 ball or the way luck plays such a part in it, or how you can do all the work for your opponent if you miss the last ball and they get the game and often can take the break too and just keep control.

Alternating breaks doesn't seem to even things up. Older rules may have been more challenging spotting balls back if you scratch on the break, but nothing seems to fix flaws inherent in this game. I'm suprised it's so popular to be honest, it seems made for tv but not the best test of skill.

What do you all think of 8 ball? Is it the best test of skill and the best game for even competition with each player getting a chance or do you prefer straight pool or what?
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Oregonmeds:

That very last snippet of your last sentence (bolded above) drew me to this one.

For me, 14.1 and One Pocket are the "breakfast of champions." Both of these games are superior tests of skill -- 14.1 with knowledge of patterns and cue ball control (and especially consistency); and One Pocket for absolute cue ball control, banks, caroms, tickies, and knowledge of the table itself. I also love Bank Pool, because of it's purity -- there is absolutely no luck or slop in bank pool (your banks have to go in clean, exactly as you call it), and it's a grand test of skill.

Failing that (i.e. I have a hobbled opponent that doesn't know these games), I'll play 8-ball. 8-ball is a patterns game (much like it's "daddy", straight pool) and actually is a bit more difficult to play safe in than the short-rack rotation games. (That is to say, in those short-rack rotation games, you only need to snooker your opponent on one ball. In 8-ball, you have to snooker your opponent on all balls of his category -- makes the safety process more difficult.) If the opponent insists on a short-rack rotation game, I'll pull-out 10-ball, but with WPA rules (i.e. call shot / call safety).

Another thing to consider -- are you playing on a barbox, or big table? That also enters the picture. Personally, I find 9-ball on a barbox to be a walk in the park; 8-ball, with the congestion, is more difficult. But the reverse happens on a big table -- I find 8-ball easier (less congestion / less blockage), but the short-rack rotation games are slightly more difficult than on a barbox.

IMHO, anyway,
-Sean
 
They are 2 different animals so they are hard to compare....

A great pattern player will beat a shot maker in 8ball most of the time...

9ball usually forces a pattern on you so the player that executes better usually wins....

8ball is much easier to play safe in and controlling a pocket by using blockers is a common tactic that weaker players can use when they cannot get out. This single tactic being unavailable in 9ball makes many people prefer 8ball.

The safety break is also available in 8ball where you try to keep the balls tied up to keep a run out player from doing just that.....

The better player will still win in 8ball most of the time unless they are pure offense and pretty dense...... But it will take them longer to do so so the lesser player if using defensive tactics will feel like the match was at least close....... And they will sometimes even win a set or 2.....

1pocket would be the epitome of 8ball as far as making someone work to beat you... I have guys that won't play me with lots of weight in 9ball that will play even 1 pocket... They know I can't just run out all set on them so they feel like they had a chance when the set is over...
 
tex/ex 9 ball isn't designed to showcase player skill.

it's designed to stay on schedule for TV and TD's.. far more racks end prematurely than run long.

the rules are oversimplified to make it easier to run a tournament by reducing the number of arguments.

9ball is pure compromise kinda like a "Denny's" it tries to be everything to everyone but doesn't really excel at anything.

8ball on the other hand is the most popular game in the country
 
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Behind bankpool,I think 8ball might be the best game for spectators,TV and the like that there is.I've been saying this for quite sometime.And every tom dick and harry knows the game.You can ask someone that's never held a pool stick and have never seen or touched a pool table but their going to know right away what ball is.And they are going to know the rules too.If they play 8ball the right way.imo 8ball has every game wrapped up In It.Everybody keeps trying to invent new games and the best one might be right under everyones nose.One final thought though,you have to bank the 8ball.haha John B.Table size wouldn't matter either.3x6 to 6x 12 or anywhere Inbetween
 
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8-ball on a 10-foot diamond table with 4 and 1/8 inch pockets would probably be the pinnacle of games for this sport.

A) The general public understand the game, and 95% of the people you walk past on the street don't have a clue how 9-ball, 10-ball, straight pool, 1-pocket, or any other game works in the slightest.

B) 90%+ of the people who DO play pool play 8-ball.

C) On the proper equippment as stated above 8-ball is a tremendous test with virtually no luck

D) Soft breaks are just not going to be an issue in 8-ball, you MUST spread the full 15 ball rack out well to get control of the table off the break and get the chance to get out.

E) There is the perfect balance of offensive play and defensive play in 8-ball whereas rotation pool is far too offense orientated and games like 1-pocket are far too defense orientated. Not to mention safety play in 8-ball is more creative then the safeties of rotation pool since you are playing safe on a possible many balls your opponent can still have on the table.

F) With the above table dimensions and 8-ball you are going to see who is the true "Tiger Woods" of the game due to the lack of luck in the game and the fact that skill will prevail (keeping in mind the races need to be at least to 9, alternate break, and win by two)
 
Masayoshi said:
9 ball only involves luck when there is a lack of skill.
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There is still alot of luck in 9-ball at the pro ranks, it is not in fluked balls which is what most people tend to think about when they think "luck in 9-ball", it is on safe leaves after misses and fortunate potting results on kicks. It is the main reason 10-ball rules went to called shot and no 2-way shots, to get rid of that exact kind of luck that 9-ball had.

Once pro's need to call "safe" or a pot on a kick shot or opponents option to make you shoot again after a missed called pot as in 10-ball rules for most pro events you saw alot of the old "luck" vanish.
 
9 Ball

I have been playing 49 years, and 9 ball is a money game, pure and simple.
It was extremely popular during the 60's and 70's. It is a fast game for accomplished players, and you can make quite a bit of money in a short time, and yes, it is popular for TV.

Changing 9 ball to make it more 'skillful' would only bore the average TV audience. Back when it was 2 shot out, the better player almost always won, but we have to adapt to a changing world (Texas Express rules), and accept it for what it is now.

Actually, I think the best games for a tournament are 8 ball and 10 ball. And I would like to see, the pros anyway, go to Rotational 8 ball for more of a challenge. 10 ball adds some difficulty over 9 ball and is better suited for the pros.
 
Snapshot9 said:
and yes, it is popular for TV.
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How do you figure? During 9-balls reign as the top game in pool we have lost almost all of the TV coverage for this sport. 9-ball on TV did nothing positive for this sport at all, very few people ever watch it when it is on TV, hell I myself don't watch it on TV and I am a big fan of this sport.

8-ball would catch WAY more of a TV audience simply due to familiarity with the general public, 9-ball has not advanced this sport in the slightest in the last 30+ years. In fact 9-ball was THE game after the Color of Money and the surge in popularity led nowhere, we lost ALL of that momentum and the chance to push the sport forward, and now 26 years or so after the Color of Money came out this sport is LESS popular then it was back then, and I mean ALOT less popular.
 
trob said:
I had a pro tell me at valley forge when talking about 9 ball that he sees a lot of good 9 ball players play great 8 ball even when they rarely play it. But rarely does he see someone who plays 8 ball all the time not struggle when they play 9 ball. I've now gone to playing 9 ball exclusively except 8 ball leagues or a tournament and so far he's right. My position play is now better and I have no problem when I have to play 8 ball. I used to struggle when I played 9 ball before because I played 8 ball 90 percent of the times.
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Ditto on this. I've played in an 8-ball league for a few years. I practice a lot, but without much discipline. I used to practice by throwing out most of the balls and then trying to run out as though it were an 8-ball spread. Eventually I started throwing out 7 or 8 balls and then trying to run them in sequence, a la 9-ball. When I changed to that type of practice, my overall game, for both 8-B and 9-B, improved a great deal. The challenge of controlling the cueball that is required when playing any type of rotation game develops skills that are transferable to all other games, and makes you a much better player, IMO.
 
Oregonmeds said:
I've always preferred 8 ball personally, never liked 9 ball or the way luck plays such a part in it, or how you can do all the work for your opponent if you miss the last ball and they get the game and often can take the break too and just keep control.

Alternating breaks doesn't seem to even things up. Older rules may have been more challenging spotting balls back if you scratch on the break, but nothing seems to fix flaws inherent in this game. I'm suprised it's so popular to be honest, it seems made for tv but not the best test of skill.

What do you all think of 8 ball? Is it the best test of skill and the best game for even competition with each player getting a chance or do you prefer straight pool or what?
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usually only weaker players have this opinion of 9 ball. after years of playing when it isn't uncommon to break and run out a rack you never hear comments like this.

i like 8 ball when it's played right. when it's played at a high level it's really exciting to watch. i like how much planning goes into playing a good 8 ball match. especially on a barbox. it's fast paced and exciting when it's done right

i prefer playing 9 ball/10 ball myself. i guess if you mean just skill you could say that 14.1 is the best game around but it takes too long and when it's played well it can look pretty boring.

keep practicing and you won't be the guy complaining because he missed the 9. the better player is usually going to get to the 9 and make it more often than the weaker player. unless you're a dog it shouldn't bother you
 
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Celtic said:
There is still alot of luck in 9-ball at the pro ranks, it is not in fluked balls which is what most people tend to think about when they think "luck in 9-ball", it is on safe leaves after misses and fortunate potting results on kicks. It is the main reason 10-ball rules went to called shot and no 2-way shots, to get rid of that exact kind of luck that 9-ball had.

Once pro's need to call "safe" or a pot on a kick shot or opponents option to make you shoot again after a missed called pot as in 10-ball rules for most pro events you saw alot of the old "luck" vanish.
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Depends on what you are talking about in regard to the two-way shot. 10 Ball rules only eliminate the two-way shot involving the object ball/10 ball. The two-way shot involving either a make or a miss/safe is still alive in 10 Ball.
 
poolplayer2093 said:
i prefer playing 9 ball/10 ball myself. i guess if you mean just skill you could say that 14.1 is the best game around but it takes too long and when it's played well it can look pretty boring.
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This may be true, but still in the past, 14.1 was on TV, people actually came out and watched matches and exhibitions in person. Was it a sign of the times or would people develop a passion to watch 14.1 again?
 
Celtic said:
There is still alot of luck in 9-ball at the pro ranks, it is not in fluked balls which is what most people tend to think about when they think "luck in 9-ball", it is on safe leaves after misses and fortunate potting results on kicks. It is the main reason 10-ball rules went to called shot and no 2-way shots, to get rid of that exact kind of luck that 9-ball had.

Once pro's need to call "safe" or a pot on a kick shot or opponents option to make you shoot again after a missed called pot as in 10-ball rules for most pro events you saw alot of the old "luck" vanish.
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If the pro did what he intended to do there is no luck. If something lucky occured, it is because he lacked the skill to do what he wanted.
 
dr9ball said:
This may be true, but still in the past, 14.1 was on TV, people actually came out and watched matches and exhibitions in person. Was it a sign of the times or would people develop a passion to watch 14.1 again?
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It wasn't a passion then... It is stated Mosconi had an audience of around 300 to watch the exhibition in which he set the 526 mark..... I think Greenleaf filled Carnegy a time or 2 but that predates Willie and all of the new forms of entertainment available.....

Pool is a beautiful game but you have to be within a few feet of the table to truly appreciate it.... 4.5x9 just doesn't allow for large audiences... As far as TV is concerned 14.1 looks too simple when played correctly to generate much interest from non-players.... You need a game that is fast paced with lots of bad beats and long odds successes to appeal to the masses.... Does anyone have the answer?? Not yet but Pat Fleming is working on a new format atm and I am sure he won't be the last....
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
The two-way shot involving either a make or a miss/safe is still alive in 10 Ball.
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Errm, there are specific rules that have eliminated alot of 2-way shots. You cannot call a safe and shoot a ball in, if a ball drops you keep shooting. If you call a ball in, miss, and get safe you can be forced to shoot again by your opponent. There are alot of 2 way shots where you try to make a ball, and if you miss you will get safe, if you call that ball in 10-ball and miss with the safe you are screwed because you are now shooting out of that safety yourself.

I don't know what you mean by a "make or miss/safe", if you call a ball in and miss you cannot get a safe, if you do the opponent can make you shoot again.
 
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