A new year time for something new - LD Shafts

M

maxeypad2007

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For the last 20 years I've been playing with conventional shafts on either Schon or now a southwest cue.

Its a new year and based on the number of professional and non-professional players using LD shafts there must be something to it.

With that said, where should I start with the LD shaft cues? Should I just get a 314-2 to start with?

What kind of adjustments do I need to make? Are there certain shots where I will notice an immediate difference.
 
If u happen to know people with the various ld shafts, you can try them out if they let you. Also if you are near a pool room that has predator demo cues, Ob shafts, McDermott I shafts, or tiger shafts to try out, then that is another option. If you are wanting ld but not wanting to sacrifice the feel of a standard maple shaft, Cash Cues offer a ld shaft with no ferrule and a kamui tip.

All of the ld shafts that are offered feel different, so it all depends on what kind of feel you are looking for and your style of play. Over the past year and a half I have found a new love for the game, and the ld shafts I used to always use felt too soft for me. I have found that with the new tiger x pro shafts I do not have to sacrifice feel for ld qualities, as some either felt too soft or hollow. Good luck finding the right ld shaft.
 
if you are going to put a pred shaft on your current cue, try to find one that is the same weight or close to the shaft you are replacing. sometimes the 3142s can be very light and throw off the balance. look for one in the 3.8 to 4 oz. range.

practice a lot of shots with extreme english and learn to make them consistantly with the reduction of cueball squirt.
 
maxeypad2007 said:
For the last 20 years I've been playing with conventional shafts on either Schon or now a southwest cue.

Its a new year and based on the number of professional and non-professional players using LD shafts there must be something to it.

With that said, where should I start with the LD shaft cues? Should I just get a 314-2 to start with?

What kind of adjustments do I need to make? Are there certain shots where I will notice an immediate difference.
Click to expand...

i would get a 3142 or an ob1. just choose which one of those you like best, and never look back. try to note what type of tip is on each one as you test them, that can change things dramatically.

to answer your last question, i think if the deflection REALLY throws you off with these shafts, maybe you should just stick to conventional shafts. i found the deflection so pleasantly surprising on my first hit.... its like you notice it, but in a good way.... i think these are the people who stick with them. take note there are problems with them.... if you wanna use a house cue some evening you are rendered much more ineffective all the sudden. but if you always play with one, youll be a much more accurate player, there is just no question about it.
 
your best move yet..............

A lot of old timers who shoot top notch pool use non ld shafts and that's great. They didnt know anything else and so they used what tools they had. Trying to use one so late in the game is hard to do. Re learning how to shoot certain shot and adjust to feel all over again takes getting used to. If they had LD shafts as an option to begin with, i'm putting my money where my mouth is and saying that every player back in the day would've opted for an ld shaft. Your game will definitely jump up at least 2 balls if you are willing to put forth the patience and effort to learn how to shoot with one....trust me..it's not hard to learn and you're damn sure it's worth the effort. Oh and i better take my foot outta my mouth before I put money there becasue i forgot...Ernesto Dominguez NOW shoots with an LD shaft and he aint going back to standard.....Ain't that a trip...did i mention that Oscar is doing the same?? you have to admit that a guy that's improving his game by moving to an LD shaft instead of a standard is tryin to tell us all something...Im a believer. best move i made yet...
 
For me, the only reason to switch to a LD shaft is if you are missing medium to long shots played with a half tip or more of English. That was me for over 30 years. I had to avoid using much side spin on these type of shots or risk having the cue ball deflect and miss the object ball, sometimes completely when using inside on a thin cut. Game over!

It didn't take very long to adjust, but there was a learning curve to figure out all the new options available to me now that I could use more spin to move whitey and throw the object ball when necessary.

I started out with Predator and found a little better feel with a OB-1. The funky ferrule only took a few games to get used to. Going back to a regular shaft is not much of a problem, except I will still miss the long ones with English that I always had a problem with.

Now I want to try a traditional solid maple shaft with no ferrule. Is the Super Billiards Expo here yet?
 
How do you apply your english?
Front-hand english, pivoting on the grip hand only?
Back-hand english, pivoting on the bridge hand only?
Parallel english?
A combination?
Not sure?

I have an OB2 and a Z2. They both have very long natural pivot points (>17 inches) that are inconvenient bridging locations for pure or near-pure BHE. And, they are too short for pure or near-pure FHE. So, you are back to an uncertain combination of FHE and BHE.

If you customarily apply BHE with your current shaft, you will likely trade "too much" squirt for "too little" squirt. You can get used to anything, but I think you will just be trading one set of adjustments for a different set of adjustments.

You should definitely try an LD shaft, but you may end up going back. There is no magic bullet.

The nice thing about LD shafts is that the laminations make the cues more radially consistent, and more alike to each other if you later replace your shaft.
 
change?

i played with LD shafts for about 12yrs and am just starting to get myself back to using standard shafts again.

if you like the way your southwest hits, which you probably do, i wouldn't go to a LD shaft. i find the only time LD shafts are really usefull are when you're in a jam and out of position, either from your own doing or from someone's leave. from personal experience, i like the way standard shafts feel, more solid and much easier to control "simple" positional shots, stunning out one or two rails, controlling the amount of english to stay on either side of an object ball, even punching the cueball forward or sideways varying distances. for regular speed shots where deflection doesn't really play a huge role, and which is the speed that you play most shots, you'll want to pay close attention to the amount of throw that you get when applying english, you may find it difficult to get fine control over your cueball trajectory off the object ball due to the greater amount of english that most LD cues apply, this really comes into play in humid conditions, or when the table and balls are dirty.

i guess a lot has to do with your style of play, whether you like spinning the ball a lot, or not. but here's my pick of +/- for each type of shaft

regular shafts
+ more control, better feel, stronger playing shaft (easier to move the cb around)
- more deflection (however this is relative to the individual, and whether they have no problem adapting, there are methods of reducing deflection by stroke)
- doesn't put as much english on as LD shafts in the event that you need lots

LD shafts
- less feel, generaly weaker playing shaft
+ makes tough shots easier
+ makes putting english on the cb easier
- tough to control the amount of english at times

i guess to finalize, i find that i'm out of position more frequently with a LD shaft than with a standard one. i think it's great that LD shafts can let you load up a 1/4 ball back cut with so much reverse english and draw that it comes out three cushions, and you can make the ball do some crazy things fairly easily. but it's the "doing the little things well" that keeps me in position and out of trouble which keep me favoring standard shafts. 99% of the shots i play i'd rather use a regular shaft, the other 1% i wish i had a LD shaft.

you can try using a smaller shaft size, softer taper, shorter ferrule, different tip, or change your stroke if you want less deflection if LD shafts don't work out for you.
 
If you play with a Southwest, I think you will regret going to a ld shaft. When I had mine {and I had two} I never even considered it.
 
maxeypad2007 said:
For the last 20 years I've been playing with conventional shafts on either Schon or now a southwest cue.

Its a new year and based on the number of professional and non-professional players using LD shafts there must be something to it.

With that said, where should I start with the LD shaft cues? Should I just get a 314-2 to start with?

What kind of adjustments do I need to make? Are there certain shots where I will notice an immediate difference.
Click to expand...

Tiger makes some shafts you should consider. I just built a table in their showroom and played with his cues, very nice. I ordered the Ultra LD.
 
I use a Maple shaft on my Wayne Holmes cue and have been playing with Maple Shafts now for the better part of 3.5 years. I put the hours in on the table and got used to my shaft, and during this, I've tried Predator 314-2's and OB1's. I had an OB1 for around 5 weeks, in which time I played 2 tournaments and put in around 75 hours practice...sure I could use the shaft and the feel of the OB1 was great for an LD shaft, but I missed the feel of a solid maple shaft. I worked on my stroke for 2 years nearly, and can do pretty much all the shots that come up in a match with this shaft....long draw shots are fine for me, top with english is ok for me, close or far.

By all means have a go, some people love it, some (like me) dislike them (I dont dislike them as they are great products, but I dislike them for MY game). If you have been playing with Solid Maple shafts for a good number of years, you may find it hard to adjust.

Hope it goes well :)
 
LD shafts

Speaking only of an OB1 here. Played more than a year with mine, cause I'm sort of pig headed. Gave up and went back to my reg shaft on my Shurtz. Big learning curve starting out, survived that, I guess my mind-body learned some how. That OB would really put some English on the cue, to the point I completely lost my ability to masse shots. I tried half as much, not so much and never could depend on it. Same thing on my swerve shots. Scooting around balls occurs much more than complete masse shots. Irritating to lose a shot in your arsenal! Know several knowledgeable shooters who gave up quickly. Predators might be a different ball game, lots of people use them. Of course some players have to have the latest and greatest of everything. Not knocking Predators but was never one to follow the masses. Having a custom made with two shafts and will have one shaft be the cue makers LD shaft, although he doesn't call it LD. So I havnt given up on technology yet. I'm usually the last to jump on the bandwagon for anything. Just changed to carbon fiber arrows on my bowhunting last year. Still refuse to put a scope on a muzzleloader. And yes I wear whitey tidies.
 
thefonz said:
from personal experience, i like the way standard shafts feel, more solid and much easier to control "simple" positional shots, stunning out one or two rails, controlling the amount of english to stay on either side of an object ball, even punching the cueball forward or sideways varying distances. for regular speed shots where deflection doesn't really play a huge role, and which is the speed that you play most shots, you'll want to pay close attention to the amount of throw that you get when applying english, you may find it difficult to get fine control over your cueball trajectory off the object ball due to the greater amount of english that most LD cues apply, this really comes into play in humid conditions, or when the table and balls are dirty.


i guess to finalize, i find that i'm out of position more frequently with a LD shaft than with a standard one. i think it's great that LD shafts can let you load up a 1/4 ball back cut with so much reverse english and draw that it comes out three cushions, and you can make the ball do some crazy things fairly easily. but it's the "doing the little things well" that keeps me in position and out of trouble which keep me favoring standard shafts. 99% of the shots i play i'd rather use a regular shaft, the other 1% i wish i had a LD shaft.

.
Click to expand...

I agree with these thoughts. I also seem to have better CB contol with my standard shafts. Although, I still use my LD shafts sometimes. I find that when I'm not playing regularly I play at a higher level with LD shafts. But, when I'm playing regularly I play better with standard shafts. I have tracked my results of both with the Q-skill test and "99" and both confirm this. For me, there are certain shots that are more "makeable" with one shaft vs the other, but from a CB control standpoint the standard works much better for me on most shots.
 
Its possible to have a LD shaft and not be made with cheap laminated wood. The shaft can have both a great hit AND be LD. Not all cue makers have LD shafts...but you can ask. Most of the deflection comes from shaft end mass and a good cuemaker can make you a LD shaft. The hit and feel come from quality cue construction and quality shaft wood. Those are rare in production LD shafts. A custom cue that was designed with a LD shaft (ie not laminated) can be the best player IMHO. You might want to check out Queperfect. Great custom cues with LD shafts, but not cheap. You want both a great hit and LD?...you got to pay for it.

I also own a cue made by Sheldon Lebow that has very low deflection and uses standard shaft material. He made the cue to the identical specs as my custom. Plays great and is LD!
 
maxeypad2007 said:
For the last 20 years I've been playing with conventional shafts on either Schon or now a southwest cue.

Its a new year and based on the number of professional and non-professional players using LD shafts there must be something to it.

With that said, where should I start with the LD shaft cues? Should I just get a 314-2 to start with?

What kind of adjustments do I need to make? Are there certain shots where I will notice an immediate difference.
Click to expand...

The 314-2 is a good shaft to start with. However, you are going to feel a lot of difference in the hit because it's hollow at the tip end.

If you're currently playing with a 13mm shaft, I would go with either the OB Classic or the new Tiger Ultra LD. They are both 12.75 mm and are not hollow - they use lighter core wood at the end but they're solid. They both have short ferrules. The Classic is a little denser and less lively, it's a little rougher on the finish side (laminations show). The new Tiger LD is a little more lively and the finish is better. If you get the Tiger LD contact me, because there is a batch with a slightly stiffer taper that will be more like the SW shaft. They are similar playing and are each stiff enough to hold up to power shots.

Whatever you do you have to give it at least six weeks to adjust. My friend had a high squirt cue and almost bagged the Classic after 3 weeks. I talked him into giving it a little more time, then it clicked after six weeks. He's playing better than ever and won and placed high in a couple of tournaments for the fist time these last few months.

Chris
 
sdbilliards said:
Tiger makes some shafts you should consider. I just built a table in their showroom and played with his cues, very nice. I ordered the Ultra LD.
Click to expand...

I just hit some balls on the Diamond you set up last week - love it! All they need is a light and we're ready to rock and roll. The table plays great!

Chris
 
jingle said:
I agree with these thoughts. I also seem to have better CB contol with my standard shafts. Although, I still use my LD shafts sometimes. I find that when I'm not playing regularly I play at a higher level with LD shafts. But, when I'm playing regularly I play better with standard shafts. I have tracked my results of both with the Q-skill test and "99" and both confirm this. For me, there are certain shots that are more "makeable" with one shaft vs the other, but from a CB control standpoint the standard works much better for me on most shots.
Click to expand...

Haha, After I typed this I went downstairs to hit some balls. After about 45 minutes I wasn't happy with my play, so I switched to my LD shaft....and like magic I quit rattling balls and was able to get better CB position too. What can I say Gulyassy makes a great LD shaft that is easy for me to go to if I need it. This game drives me crazy sometimes....well most times actually, LOL.
 
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