A Question for "A" Players and Above - How to play when not in stroke?

StevenPWaldon

StevenPWaldon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a question for A-players and above (A-players, Shortstops, Opens, Pros, Etc.):

When you're in the middle of a set and you're just not quite in stroke, how do you find yourself playing the rest of the set? I sort of figure that if you're conscious about not playing your best, there are a few basic ways about finishing out the set:

1.) Tame down your game -- When forced with a medium-difficult shot, do you take the easier shot, and accept slightly poorer position from shot-to-shot? I guess this would generally mean rolling the ball a little more than usual, and not juicing / jacking up very often unless absolutely forced into it. On the safety side of the game, if faced with a not-so-hard bank, would you play a simple safety if you're just not feeling good that day about your game? Or stay the course, confidence in your abilities?

2.) Try to get in stroke -- Do you ever try and "force" yourself to get in stroke and loosen up a bit? This might mean taking a confidence-inspiring shot that you know you'd make in practice (maybe some jacked up draw shot, a table-length bank, etc.) to get back into your rhythm and stop doubting yourself.

3.) Take up bowling

Thanks, eh!
 
Grit yer teeth and mean it!

Steven:

Probably the question of the year, for sure -- a great thread!

I guess the answer depends on the player him/herself. If the player is normally a strong shotmaker, but just isn't quite nailing those medium/difficult shots (e.g. jarring the ball), toning his/her game down a bit and going for the slightly easier, confidence-reassuring shots, even if they result in less-than-optimum position for the next shot, might be best. With the "subconscious relief" (i.e. confidence reassurance) given by the previous shot, nailing that subsequent less-than-optimum might be more definite, and once that's executed, the confidence goes up even further. In other words, using automotive driving parlance, "ease back, and go up the hill more slowly, gradually gaining speed each time until full speed is reached." This might work for a lot of folks.

I find it varies with me. The above approach sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. On those other times when it doesn't, I just grit my teeth, internally pump myself up (but without talking to myself -- that's a no-no in my book!), do a "grrr!" and mean it, sight the shot and without taking my eyes off the ball (contact point or ghost point, what-have-you), get down into my stance, practice stroke until I feel comfortable, and fire the shot in.

This "toss the concern to the wind with wild abandon" sometimes is the juice I need to make those medium-to-difficult shots in pressure situations, when I'm not playing my best for any of a number of reasons. I've managed to shake myself out of ruts with this approach, and "broke through" whatever funk it was that was keeping me back. Sometimes, other thoughts racing through our minds (e.g. hard day at work, personal life, etc.) bleeds our concentration, even if we think we're not thinking about it. Just gritting your teeth (figuratively speaking), growl internally a bit, and shoot the shot like you mean it (because you do!) somehow tells your mind that this pool game is more important than whatever background "noise" is going on in your mind, and from that point forward, bumps the priority of the game "higher" in your mind. Again, the key (for me) is not talking to yourself (either audibly or internally) because this engages the conscious brain. You want to engage the subconscious brain, the one that's been storing away all the eye/hand/arm/body coordination for successful shots during all your practice; you want to call upon this vast storehouse of information and yank out the piece of info you need to execute the shot, keeping that doorway to the subconscious open for subsequent shots.

Just some food for thought; hope it's useful! Again, great thread, and I'm sure we're going to see some very interesting and useful replies!

-Sean
14.1 high run: 133 (9ft table)
9-ball: 9-pack (9ft table)
8-ball: 7-pack (9ft table)

StevenPWaldon said:
I have a question for A-players and above (A-players, Shortstops, Opens, Pros, Etc.):

When you're in the middle of a set and you're just not quite in stroke, how do you find yourself playing the rest of the set? I sort of figure that if you're conscious about not playing your best, there are a few basic ways about finishing out the set:

1.) Tame down your game -- When forced with a medium-difficult shot, do you take the easier shot, and accept slightly poorer position from shot-to-shot? I guess this would generally mean rolling the ball a little more than usual, and not juicing / jacking up very often unless absolutely forced into it. On the safety side of the game, if faced with a not-so-hard bank, would you play a simple safety if you're just not feeling good that day about your game? Or stay the course, confidence in your abilities?

2.) Try to get in stroke -- Do you ever try and "force" yourself to get in stroke and loosen up a bit? This might mean taking a confidence-inspiring shot that you know you'd make in practice (maybe some jacked up draw shot, a table-length bank, etc.) to get back into your rhythm and stop doubting yourself.

3.) Take up bowling

Thanks, eh!
Click to expand...
 
It depends I think on what part of my game is off.

I find there are typically three areas that breakdown for me, shotmaking (which usually is just missing tough shots), position play and safety play.

I will usually adjust my approach and try to focus on the strengths I currently possess. For example if I'm not feeling as confident in my shotmaking I will often pass up tough run out opportunities and play a safety and wait for another one. Good defense can get you through a lot of sticky situations.

If my position play is off, I'll reduce cueball movement and focus on my shotmaking ability. If I'm having issues with safety play I'll start to play snooker safes, where I just leave distance and no shot. Their not great on a pool table, but it's better than having the object ball (or CB) leak out time and again.

If everything is off, I dunno. Buy your favorite alcoholic beverage (losses and bad play are easier to take with one of those in your hand).
 
Ooh wow... this is so so so true. I think I'll have to make that distinction between engaging the conscious and subconscious when faced with those difficult shots. I guess regardless of whether you decided to try and tame your game down, or take shots with wild abandon, this little nugget is probably the key to executing either approach. Thanks for that!

sfleinen said:
Steven:

...Again, the key (for me) is not talking to yourself (either audibly or internally) because this engages the conscious brain. You want to engage the subconscious brain, the one that's been storing away all the eye/hand/arm/body coordination for successful shots during all your practice; you want to call upon this vast storehouse of information and yank out the piece of info you need to execute the shot, keeping that doorway to the subconscious open for subsequent shots.
Click to expand...
 
Good post Sfleinen and good thread topic.

I'm not quite an A player, but on more and more occassions I play to that speed. Skip this if I ain't good 'nuf. ;)

When I'm "off" I will definitely play more conservatively. Sometimes it just takes a while to get up to speed.

The best chance for me to get out of a funk and into gear, is by getting a nice run out. Until then, I'll try to reduce the chances I'll sell out, and wait until I get a table I can clear. I'll play more safes and more 2 ways. That style of play will frustrate some opponents and get them off their mojo.

If that doesn't work, and too many racks are going by, I'll try a more aggressive strategy.
 
Speed up your tempo a bit and concentrate. Speeding up the tempo quiets the mind and forces you to trust your stroke, because you don't have time to question it. Don't go so fast that you sacrafice fundamentals and your preshot routine though.

I have out ran the nuts many a times doing this.
 
When I'm off my, when it seems like I've suddenly forgotten how to play, I immediately slow my game down. I try to increase concentration as much as possible, and absolutely make sure that I am planning what I'm going to do in upcoming shots as well as the current shot.

All too often, I will get very angry with myself if I'm not playing up to my speed, and I will start just shooting and not planning what I want to do. This leads me to get out of line more often, which causes me to get even angrier, which causes me to play even worse.

So, like I said, I now slow myself down (including my pace around the table), which pretty much forces me to plan ahead (because I'm not rushing, giving me more time to clearly think). Eventually I get back in stroke and go back to my normal pace.

Deep breaths.
 
At the level of pool you're talking about, if you're out of stroke, your opponent will probably get into stroke. If gambling, I'll more than likely pack it up for the day and try again another time.
 
Mentally don't give up, grind, grind, and grind. I've won many tournaments not playing my best pool but just mentally staying in the game. As Sfleinen said earlier, avoid talking to yourself saying things like "nice shot idiot" :smile: Sometimes it can be tough to turn it around in a match or set (wish I were more like computer and could do a reboot!)
 
I try and stay ahead of the shot, and rely on my mechanics as opposed to my thinking ability, when you start to go south your mind usually goes south...so I stay ahead of the shot and just let my body and mechanics do it natural job i've trianed it to do.
 
And what about if at a tournament? Do you pack up if you lose your first match?

I don't think this really addresses the heart of the question. I think quitting is the least likely option, especially if you're already in the middle of a game (be it practice, a tournament, gambling). If you're gambling and struggling, it's best to struggle and try to win instead of just packing up.

you're only as good as your worst day, so if we only played on the days we felt "on" then I think most of us wouldn't play nearly as much as we do. This includes practice, tournaments, gambling, league matches.

What drew me into asking this question was that in many situations, especially in pool, you're only as good as your worst day, so if we only played on the days we felt "on" then I think most of us wouldn't play nearly as much as we do. This includes practice, tournaments, gambling, league matches. But what happens -- and how does one win -- if you're not playing at 100% , or even 90% what if it's only 70 or 80%?


I'm interested in those who have advice for winning when you're not quite in the zone, specifically at the A-and-above level; those who posses enough physical talent and knowledge about the game that they should be able to make clear, conscious, and smart decisions as to how to increase their chances to win any given game despite having a slightly "off" day. Is it possible to turn an "off" day into a winning day?

Clearly Neil has found something in himself, with his mechanics; having stated that's he's won tournaments despite feeling out of stroke. I'm looking for others with the same sort of insight.

Salamander said:
At the level of pool you're talking about, if you're out of stroke, your opponent will probably get into stroke. If gambling, I'll more than likely pack it up for the day and try again another time.
Click to expand...
 
well when i.m not playing at my best i attend to tame down my game some an play safty alot more till i find a good run out or a chance to get out an i don.t think about how bad i.m shooting an just play my game an my game ussually comes out not all the time but my game ussualy picks up some

you allready know what u can do so if u don.t shoot or practice in a few days then your brain forgets a few things like makin side shots or u forget your routine

so what i do is i think about pool an i play the ghost in my head when i.m at home an i try an run the balls out i allso practice in my head to i know souns silly but it keeps me instate of mind an it keeps my brain thinking of pool a i watch pool as much as i can

allso another thing try thinkin positive b4 u go play league say to ur self i.m going to play great today i feel great don.t matter who i play i.m going to win...but you allso got to remember offence wins Tournaments/league matchs but Safty/playin smart wins Championships
 
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Alright....

If I'm in a tournament, or a long set I try the following:

- take more breaks
- slow my play down (hopefully takes my opponent out of stroke)
- change the style of the game, either more safes, or more risks.
- go through my mental checklist of: stance, stroke, alignment....and for me....particular attention to pausing at the cue ball.
- lastly, not getting stressed out if my oppenent is running racks. I'll shoot, when it is my turn. I detach myself from what he is doing.

Hope that helps.



StevenPWaldon said:
And what about if at a tournament? Do you pack up if you lose your first match?

I don't think this really addresses the heart of the question. I think quitting is the least likely option, especially if you're already in the middle of a game (be it practice, a tournament, gambling). If you're gambling and struggling, it's best to struggle and try to win instead of just packing up.

you're only as good as your worst day, so if we only played on the days we felt "on" then I think most of us wouldn't play nearly as much as we do. This includes practice, tournaments, gambling, league matches.

What drew me into asking this question was that in many situations, especially in pool, you're only as good as your worst day, so if we only played on the days we felt "on" then I think most of us wouldn't play nearly as much as we do. This includes practice, tournaments, gambling, league matches. But what happens -- and how does one win -- if you're not playing at 100% , or even 90% what if it's only 70 or 80%?


I'm interested in those who have advice for winning when you're not quite in the zone, specifically at the A-and-above level; those who posses enough physical talent and knowledge about the game that they should be able to make clear, conscious, and smart decisions as to how to increase their chances to win any given game despite having a slightly "off" day. Is it possible to turn an "off" day into a winning day?

Clearly Neil has found something in himself, with his mechanics; having stated that's he's won tournaments despite feeling out of stroke. I'm looking for others with the same sort of insight.
Click to expand...
 
This normally happens to me when I am not quite warmed up or simply have not shot enough pool in the past few weeks.

I NEVER take easier shots for an out. If I am IN stroke and shooting well and shooting a semi-tough short side shot is the best way to get out the last thing I am going to do is not shoot that shot and leave that ball making the actual out tougher. That is IF I am trying to still get out.

What I might do though is play safe more, instead of taking on a tough out that I can run when in stroke at a high percentage I might play a safety or tie stuff up. This way I can either get a fairly easy back door which allows me to run some open balls and get some feel OR I get into a safety battle which normally comes down to moves and knowledge instead of stroke, and once I win a battle of wits I find my stroke comes around with that added confidence knowing I can beat the guy on the safety battles. The only way this backfires is if the guy gets out on the tough out I leave him and if he does then so be it, I know I am in a battle with a good shot and that can ALSO get me shooting better as now he is a target and a guy I really want to beat.

One thing that I have to do when not quite in stroke though is slow down, look at the contact point and then see it from the cueball BEFORE stepping into my stance. When I am shooting well and am in stroke I have the feel to hit any part of the pocket and can see the contact point and shot from the cueball, I don't have to spend as much effort looking at the line between the contact point and the ball and force the visualization from the cueball, it is more natural. So it slows my game down some for a short while when I am cold and not in stroke.
 
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Everyone has a different answer for this.

WHAT WORKS For Me is slowing the game down and playing as many safeties as possible. If I can slow my opponent down I have a better chance. As a general rule My Patients is greater than the opponent. So Safety play works for me when I am out of stroke like I am now.
 
I try to change the momentum of the match. Do this by taking some deep breaths (this really does work), get a drink of cool water and begin shooting at a pace that allows me to focus on my stroke. I think Scott Lee said is best that when you follow SPF, your slumps are only one ball at a time.

I also know that my hard limit is being tired. If I am tired, I won't snap out of it till I get some sleep. I guess I love my sleep too much. :)
 
StevenPWaldon said:
What drew me into asking this question was that in many situations, especially in pool, you're only as good as your worst day, so if we only played on the days we felt "on" then I think most of us wouldn't play nearly as much as we do. This includes practice, tournaments, gambling, league matches. But what happens -- and how does one win -- if you're not playing at 100% , or even 90% what if it's only 70 or 80%?

I'm interested in those who have advice for winning when you're not quite in the zone, specifically at the A-and-above level; those who posses enough physical talent and knowledge about the game that they should be able to make clear, conscious, and smart decisions as to how to increase their chances to win any given game despite having a slightly "off" day. Is it possible to turn an "off" day into a winning day?
Click to expand...

First off, I'd like to say thanks for starting a thread that promises to deliver so much good information!

I think you nailed the key thing right here. Improving your worst game is not nearly as straightforward as improving your best game. Not only is there the difficult task of trying to diagnose and fix the problems, you have to do it while contending with the mental/emotional/physical toll of making mistakes you feel like you shouldn't make.

I used to play strictly by feel, and my good days were really good, but my bad days were just awful. If I hadn't been playing a lot, like every single day, then I could invariably count on coming to the table playing two or three balls under my normal speed. In addition to that, I wasn't mentally prepared to deal with the stress of playing poorly, and would often let my emotions exacerbate the situation.

I was finally able to get to the point where my worst game was still in the same zip code as my best game, and I think the key for me was to adopt a more scientific approach to the situation. I now try to deal with sub-standard play in the same way I would deal with adverse playing conditions, like a gaffed up table, a crappy barbox, dirty balls, etc. If I happen to be playing on a table with a chunk of dead rail, or say a barbox with a freak cueball that seems to weigh 4 lbs., I don't blame myself for that, I just make the necessary adjustments to my strategy and shot selection. I might avoid banking balls off of the dead section of rail, and start moving the impossible-to-draw cueball forward as much as possible.

I try to take this same unemotional, objective approach to my poor play as well. Diagnose the problem area(s) as well as possible, and then make the appropriate adjustments to my percentages and subsequent shot selection. If I'm having trouble pocketing balls, I will deal with it the same way I would if I were playing on an extremely tight table, take a bit more time to bear down and measure shots out carefully, and focus on getting good angles so I don't have to shoot hard. If my speed is off, I try to make a mental note of which shots I hit too hard/soft, and make adjustments there. I might start measuring out banks and kicks if I'm not finding the sweet spot by feel. I find that this extra work helps to take my mind off of previous mistakes, and often allows me to shoot through a rough patch without getting too banged up.

Great thread!

Aaron
 
StevenPWaldon said:
I have a question for A-players and above (A-players, Shortstops, Opens, Pros, Etc.):

When you're in the middle of a set and you're just not quite in stroke, how do you find yourself playing the rest of the set? I sort of figure that if you're conscious about not playing your best, there are a few basic ways about finishing out the set:

1.) Tame down your game -- When forced with a medium-difficult shot, do you take the easier shot, and accept slightly poorer position from shot-to-shot? I guess this would generally mean rolling the ball a little more than usual, and not juicing / jacking up very often unless absolutely forced into it. On the safety side of the game, if faced with a not-so-hard bank, would you play a simple safety if you're just not feeling good that day about your game? Or stay the course, confidence in your abilities?

2.) Try to get in stroke -- Do you ever try and "force" yourself to get in stroke and loosen up a bit? This might mean taking a confidence-inspiring shot that you know you'd make in practice (maybe some jacked up draw shot, a table-length bank, etc.) to get back into your rhythm and stop doubting yourself.

3.) Take up bowling

Thanks, eh!
Click to expand...

If you're playing other good players, it doesn't take much to lose the momentum. One obviously blown easy shot can do it.

When I'm playing bad, it's usually because I'm nervous and I start rushing everything. I rush the thinking, rush the set-up and rush the shot. That's the key to disaster! When the mistakes mount up, a sense of defeat sets in - then it's pretty much over.

What I try to do (if I can catch myself) is conciously slow myself down. Try to give myself enough time to think clearly, set up properly, and not shoot until I'm really ready. However, when I'm actually stroking, I want it to be free and loose and relaxed.

Also, yes - when you're playing bad, don't try really difficult shots. Play some good safes and see if you can steal the momentum back.

I wish I had the answer - every player seems to go through this.

Chris
 
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