a question for Freddy the Beard

[hwest]

Hello! I just finished your excellent book "Banking with the Beard" and on the backcover there are other great bankers' opinions on the book. Truman Hogue wrote: "The Beard snitched off every secret but my famous 'wrist turn' shot".
So my question is: what is the 'wrist turn' shot?

 

[lfigueroa]

Hello! I just finished your excellent book "Banking with the Beard" and on the backcover there are other great bankers' opinions on the book. Truman Hogue wrote: "The Beard snitched off every secret but my famous 'wrist turn' shot".
So my question is: what is the 'wrist turn' shot?

Oh yeah. This should be good.

Lou Figueroa
going off to look
for the
fire extinguishers

 

[freddy the beard]

Lou is a built in filter on AZ

Hello! I just finished your excellent book "Banking with the Beard" and on the backcover there are other great bankers' opinions on the book. Truman Hogue wrote: "The Beard snitched off every secret but my famous 'wrist turn' shot".
So my question is: what is the 'wrist turn' shot?

The official "AZ Forum Thread Filter," Lou Figeroa, has attached his "expertise" to this thread already. That means that I will only respond to you via PM. I am much too much of a pool-knowledge egotist to subject my knowledge to his stamp of approval. Just imagine Kwai Chang Caine (David Carradine) of the TV show Kung Fu, questioning his Sensei Temple Master as to how the hell is he supposed to break those bricks with his puny little hand.

Beard
Keep in mind, I have 50 years of accumulated knowledge that I no longer feel comfortable sharing on the forums.

 

[lfigueroa]

The official "AZ Forum Thread Filter," Lou Figeroa, has attached his "expertise" to this thread already. That means that I will only respond to you via PM. I am much too much of a pool-knowledge egotist to subject my knowledge to his stamp of approval. Just imagine Kwai Chang Caine (David Carradine) of the TV show Kung Fu, questioning his Sensei Temple Master as to how the hell is he supposed to break those bricks with his puny little hand.

Beard
Keep in mind, I have 50 years of accumulated knowledge that I no longer feel comfortable sharing on the forums.

I'm calling bull-sheet-o.

You can try and blame me if you want, but you said some time ago that you wouldn't post anything on this and related subjects -- you just cannot tolerate people questioning your techniques (that on their face, don't hold up to any kind of scientific scrutiny). As I've said before on this, I believe your techniques work -- *but not for the reasons you believe they work.* We have been over this before: sometimes great (and even good) players believe that certain techniques do things they do not -- but that does not stop them from achieving great (or good) results.

So here: I think it's just that you know you're going to get hammered on this if you throw it out there. (There is also the fact that you are on record about complaining about all the know-it-all wannabes on this site.) So you can try and blame it on me, but I will make you this deal just to prove you are full of it: go ahead and post anything you want on this subject here, and I promise to not post a thing about it.

I say this with complete confidence that you will come up with some other excuse, 50 years of knowledge or not.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Ball Banger]

I'm calling bull-sheet-o.

You can try and blame me if you want, but you said some time ago that you wouldn't post anything on this and related subjects -- you just cannot tolerate people questioning your techniques (that on their face, don't hold up to any kind of scientific scrutiny). As I've said before on this, I believe your techniques work -- *but not for the reasons you believe they work.* We have been over this before: sometimes great (and even good) players believe that certain techniques do things they do not -- but that does not stop them from achieving great (or good) results.

So here: I think it's just that you know you're going to get hammered on this if you throw it out there. (There is also the fact that you are on record about complaining about all the know-it-all wannabes on this site.) So you can try and blame it on me, but I will make you this deal just to prove you are full of it: go ahead and post anything you want on this subject here, and I promise to not post a thing about it.

I say this with complete confidence that you will come up with some other excuse, 50 years of knowledge or not.

Lou Figueroa

I don't have a dog in this fight but everyone hates a self professed KNOW IN ALL.

 

[lfigueroa]

I don't have a dog in this fight but everyone hates a self professed KNOW IN ALL.

Yeah, me too.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Maxx]

Freddy, continue to post, try to ignore the forum stalkers!
I like reading your posts.

 

[Ball Banger]

Yeah, me too.

Lou Figueroa

If the shoe fits, Wear It.

 

[ShootingArts]

I'm going to pay close attention

I am going to pay close attention to anything that Lou or Freddy has to say. Both are sharp guys and it would be as wrong to take Lou lightly as it is to take Freddy lightly.

This isn't about Freddy and may or may not apply here because I am only guessing at the stroke that is being discussed but last week at the pool hall I was talking to a very good local player and we were discussing something very similar. It doesn't really matter why many things work, only that they work. If Freddy or anybody else wants to give up some info on shot making I'm always willing to learn and I'm not going to try to pick apart why it works. The balls don't really care about the physics.

A very tough shot to master and very few can execute it with reasonable consistency but sweeping the tip of the cue across the face of the ball does give greater action than can be applied with any straight stroke other than full masse, it is a simple matter of friction.

Hu

 

[alstl]

I wonder how long before Mike gives the forum pain in the ass a time out.

 

[lfigueroa]

I am going to pay close attention to anything that Lou or Freddy has to say. Both are sharp guys and it would be as wrong to take Lou lightly as it is to take Freddy lightly.

This isn't about Freddy and may or may not apply here because I am only guessing at the stroke that is being discussed but last week at the pool hall I was talking to a very good local player and we were discussing something very similar. It doesn't really matter why many things work, only that they work. If Freddy or anybody else wants to give up some info on shot making I'm always willing to learn and I'm not going to try to pick apart why it works. The balls don't really care about the physics.

A very tough shot to master and very few can execute it with reasonable consistency but sweeping the tip of the cue across the face of the ball does give greater action than can be applied with any straight stroke other than full masse, it is a simple matter of friction.

Hu

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Hu.

You and I are in agreement, except on one point: you say it doesn't really matter why many things work and to a point, I agree. If you're mid-match and you can dredge up some obscure technique that is going to save your cookies from burning, it really doesn't matter. I think we've all done that at one time or another.

But, that doesn't mean that it isn't interesting to discuss and learn, if possible, why some techniques actually produce the results they do. That's the part Freddy doesn't like. He says his technique works (which I have no doubt it does) but then wants you to make the leap that it works for highly questionable reasons. And that's were we come to loggerheads.

Some guys find the science interesting, though they may not completely understand it, or be remotely thinking about it during a game. And I am one of those guys. That's all.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I wonder how long before Mike gives the forum pain in the ass a time out.

I would hate to see you go

Lou Figueroa

 

[ShootingArts]

full agreement

Lou,

That was exactly the conclusion we came to in the pool hall. Knowing the technique and that it works is what is of immediate importance. It is interesting to learn why it works and plain fun to talk about these things sometimes but to make that one shot we can "black box" the why and just accept it works.

There is another important thing though, if we really understand correctly how something works then sometimes we can use the same principle for a different shot or to do something entirely different. Seeing something new and applying a variation of what we already know is much easier if we know exactly why the original shot worked.

Hu

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Hu.

You and I are in agreement, except on one point: you say it doesn't really matter why many things work and to a point, I agree. If you're mid-match and you can dredge up some obscure technique that is going to save your cookies from burning, it really doesn't matter. I think we've all done that at one time or another.

But, that doesn't mean that it isn't interesting to discuss and learn, if possible, why some techniques actually produce the results they do. That's the part Freddy doesn't like. He says his technique works (which I have no doubt it does) but then wants you to make the leap that it works for highly questionable reasons. And that's were we come to loggerheads.

Some guys find the science interesting, though they may not completely understand it, or be remotely thinking about it during a game. And I am one of those guys. That's all.

Lou Figueroa

 

[jay helfert]

The official "AZ Forum Thread Filter," Lou Figeroa, has attached his "expertise" to this thread already. That means that I will only respond to you via PM. I am much too much of a pool-knowledge egotist to subject my knowledge to his stamp of approval. Just imagine Kwai Chang Caine (David Carradine) of the TV show Kung Fu, questioning his Sensei Temple Master as to how the hell is he supposed to break those bricks with his puny little hand.

Beard
Keep in mind, I have 50 years of accumulated knowledge that I no longer feel comfortable sharing on the forums.

Good for you Freddie. You forgot more about pool than this guy will ever know!

 

[The Kiss]

Ah the old super secret wrist twist...I'm in a giving mood...here's my take on it and what i know...like Hu said you get more action on the cue ball by twisting the cue across the cue ball as you stroke the ball

Now I'm sure you can use it in different situations and those situation are the real secret.

I was shown to use it if your cue ball is stuck on the end rail with a object ball on the rail straight/ in shot into the corner pocket. Dead straight no angle what so ever and you need to go down table for position on another ball.

Twist the cue on impact with the cue ball and it creates a super stun shot capable of going up table. Might work on other shots too. But it is very hard to perfect and takes lots of practice to keep from jawing the shot.

I think it comes up so infrequently its just another trickey little shot to have in your bag. Plus if you keep on getting dead straight on balls with whitey stuck on the rail you got bigger things to work on:grin:

 

[CrossSideLarry]

Truman Hogue "Wrist Turn"

Unless, I am missing something here, a valid question was posed to Freddy Bentivegna (Freddy The Beard), to which Freddy responded in kind, while not giving up the answer? I know the answer and I learned it from Freddy. I later validated the answer with Truman himself while warming up in banks at the 2008 Derby City Classic. In addition to Truman's validation, I also gained his insight on when and how to best use the "wrist turn" shot. Like Freddy, I am not too keen on giving up what I had to pay to learn, but in this case, I will happily do so, via PM only.

Cross-Side-Larry

"Learn from the best, and beat the rest" (And in this case, I did!)

 

[Chi2dxa]

Ah the old super secret wrist twist...I'm in a giving mood...here's my take on it and what i know...like Hu said you get more action on the cue ball by twisting the cue across the cue ball as you stroke the ball

Now I'm sure you can use it in different situations and those situation are the real secret.

I was shown to use it if your cue ball is stuck on the end rail with a object ball on the rail straight/ in shot into the corner pocket. Dead straight no angle what so ever and you need to go down table for position on another ball.

Twist the cue on impact with the cue ball and it creates a super stun shot capable of going up table. Might work on other shots too. But it is very hard to perfect and takes lots of practice to keep from jawing the shot.

I think it comes up so infrequently its just another trickey little shot to have in your bag. Plus if you keep on getting dead straight on balls with whitey stuck on the rail you got bigger things to work on:grin:

Thank you for clearing that up because the mystery was just killing me. I will go home and practice that.

 

[lfigueroa]

There is another important thing though, if we really understand correctly how something works then sometimes we can use the same principle for a different shot or to do something entirely different. Seeing something new and applying a variation of what we already know is much easier if we know exactly why the original shot worked.

Hu

I guess we're in complete agreement then... knocker j/k

But what happens if you're provided the wrong explanatory principle and you go to apply it to a different situation. I think that's where accepting things from "an expert," blindly, is not such a good idea.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Good for you Freddie. You forgot more about pool than this guy will ever know!

Undoubtedly true. But that doesn't make him automatically right on this one.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Ah the old super secret wrist twist...I'm in a giving mood...here's my take on it and what i know...like Hu said you get more action on the cue ball by twisting the cue across the cue ball as you stroke the ball

Now I'm sure you can use it in different situations and those situation are the real secret.

I was shown to use it if your cue ball is stuck on the end rail with a object ball on the rail straight/ in shot into the corner pocket. Dead straight no angle what so ever and you need to go down table for position on another ball.

Twist the cue on impact with the cue ball and it creates a super stun shot capable of going up table. Might work on other shots too. But it is very hard to perfect and takes lots of practice to keep from jawing the shot.

I think it comes up so infrequently its just another trickey little shot to have in your bag. Plus if you keep on getting dead straight on balls with whitey stuck on the rail you got bigger things to work on:grin:

Can you Wei Table a shot to illustrate?

Lou Figueroa
now we're getting somewhere