a question regarding english....
- Thread starter jcpoolgod
- Start date
english is on the horizontal axis
draw and follow are on the vertical axis
each can be measured in tip width from the center
ie 1 tip right english
about 3 tips is what you can get before you are in miscue range
obviously an 11.5 mm shaft tip might get more than 3 tips than a 13mm shaft tip
Do you want a little spin or alot? Does this answer your question?
No. It is fairly common knowledge and easy to demonstrate that if you add draw to side spin, the side spin is effectively multiplied. That is because the draw will slow the cue ball down on the way to the object ball (or cushion) and the side spin will remain the same RPM, more or less. That means that the spin/speed ratio is increased.
If you are talking about equal total displacement of the tip for both cases then the increase in side spin due to the draw will be less effective if you are only using a little spin. If you are at the miscue limit, equal amounts of draw and side spin will give the highest spin/speed ratio after smooth rolling sets in on the cue ball.
Not to nitpick you ratta, but a smaller shaft allows you to hit a bit lower on the cue ball. To the poster: Forget about trying to measure the amount of spin, it only complicates things. Try to get a feel for whats alot or a little. Test the same cut shot at different speeds and spins.
2 tips of english with a 11.5mm tip = 23mm from center
2 tips from center with a 13mm tip= 26mm from center
isnt that correct???
thats what im saying
of course if both tips hit the same spot the english is the same
although cant it be argued the smaller tip concentrates the force into a smaller spot??
causing more english??
i wont belaber the point since
icbw
but are you saying the area(mm squared) of tip hitting the spot
is the same regardless of tip size
a gross exaggeration would be hitting someone in the nipple with end of your finger vs your fist
both hit the spot
the index finger focused the force more
icbw
Better listen to this guy.........
He know's what he's talking about..............great explaination....
He know's what he's talking about..............great explaination....
this is extremely helpful..i was just thinking about this last night....since you are lower on the cueball yet closer to the edge of the cueball...there should be more spin.....now another question....
i recently figured out that i was not hitting center ball after all these years....so i started shooting with what looks like a tip and a half of right....which is center for me.......then my question came to what happenend when i shot lower or higher...was my "center" ball hit still the same....?
Quad and Ratta are right your not using the whole tip to hit the cueball, no matter what the size of the tip,using a 8mm tip is not going to let me get six tips of english.
Why would anybody want to use three tips of english with a 11mm tip that cue ball is just going to do a figure 8 with all that deflectn from such a thin shaft .
I follow you in Billiard Digest and have read much that you produce. You have a lot to offer.
I first became aware of this concept (spin/speed) in reading a Bob Jewett article. Draw several straight slanted lines out from the ball resting point. The points of tip contact anywhere on a specific line will produce the same amount of side spin relative to forward motion. A relatively vertical line has less english than a more slanted one. All the points along a selected line have equal side english.
It is the actual contact of tip to the cue ball that is key. It is not the edge of the ferule but the actual contact point that is important.
In attempting to make contact with a single line some error is introduced. A 1mm error has more consequence near the support point than higher on the ball. Consistency is gained by moving higher on the line. Lines converge at the cue ball support point, precise tip placement is critical for accuracy when using very low side english. To apply a very slight amount of english hit near the equator or higher in contrast to hitting lower.
A practical use is in transferring a known shot, say a bank with 1/2 tip at 3:00, into a shot cueing the Cue Ball higher/lower. That is into a bank with 3/4 tip at roughly 2:30. Moving upward in a straight line from the cue ball resting point. In effect, you are moving the Cue Ball with a higher degree of follow/draw. The ratios of the transformed hit point are proportional to the original or known hit point. This is useful in getting shape or in cluster breakouts.
I think for equal amounts of draw and side on the miscue limit circle (i.e. 4:30 or 7:30 tip contact) to give the highest spin/speed ratio once NR is achieved, it would require an overly generous miscue limit of ~0.7R. A more reasonable miscue limit assumption of 0.5R-0.6R achieves the the max spin/speed ratio closer to 4:00/8:00.
Robert
This sounds intriguing, but I am having some difficulty following it - is there a diagram somewhere that you could link to?
Are you pool players or scientists?
WOW! Talk about impressive. I had no idea there were people in the racket who knew so much technical jargon. Although I couldn't follow much of it, I was amazed.
I would not embarrass myself by trying to add anything technical to the thread but I can give you a tip that might not only lead you to the answer, but will for sure improve your position play and, at the same time show you that the use of english is overrated. I'm no champion player but I was involved pretty heavily in the hustling world for a couple of decades and this works pretty well for me. Sometimes when I practice 9ball I will chalk my tip once and put the chalk away for a half hour or so. Sounds crazy, huh? What this will do is force you to play better angles and show you almost anything can be accomplished by staying a cue tip's width, or closer to center ball, where chalk is helpful but not totally necessary. It will make you avoid the dreaded straight in's that plague us and it will make you take more time making sure where you strike the cue ball. Give it a try and then tell em I'm full of it. And, good morning all.
Keep it nice. Alfie
WOW! Talk about impressive. I had no idea there were people in the racket who knew so much technical jargon. Although I couldn't follow much of it, I was amazed.
I would not embarrass myself by trying to add anything technical to the thread but I can give you a tip that might not only lead you to the answer, but will for sure improve your position play and, at the same time show you that the use of english is overrated. I'm no champion player but I was involved pretty heavily in the hustling world for a couple of decades and this works pretty well for me. Sometimes when I practice 9ball I will chalk my tip once and put the chalk away for a half hour or so. Sounds crazy, huh? What this will do is force you to play better angles and show you almost anything can be accomplished by staying a cue tip's width, or closer to center ball, where chalk is helpful but not totally necessary. It will make you avoid the dreaded straight in's that plague us and it will make you take more time making sure where you strike the cue ball. Give it a try and then tell em I'm full of it. And, good morning all.
Keep it nice. Alfie
So true. I practice almost exclusively without english and find when I need to spin the cue ball, I concentrate more. This helps my focus and keeps the pool mind uncluttered. :wink:
Gerry Kanov says he rarely chalks his cue when practicing. It forces him to achieve a better stroke with more natural angles. He chalks for draw or harder spin shots. This works mentally and physically for me.
Best,
Mike
