a solution to racking issues, also solution to luck in break

asbani

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
People tend to practice the break on 10ball, 9ball, even 8ball, to get good result, but then again lets be honest, sometimes your break does not work on certain tables and balls get kicked and in the end of the day its mostly about your luck.

People love to smash the break shot, the player who gets a very good luck in their break most of the time wins a 9ball match purely due to the break, because then again most pro's know how to runout, its a matter of layouts and break luck.

Even the greatest breakers in the world sometimes their break does not work, (hint shane in the 9ball finals against ko last year) and prior to shane's match his break was working perfectly, then again it was a disadvantage to his opponent, so the break is big shot, and its a very lucky shot too which is either so bad to the game, or so good depends on how you look at it.

I remember one of the old guys who play pool told me one day, it's crazy that the most important shot in this game is a luck shot, and he is actually right.

I got a solution, but it's a change to the games too, it will solve few things.

1) luck in the break.
2) racking issues where guys take forever to rack their balls or their opponent balls.


Now it's a big change and I don't know if people would like the idea but here it goes.

Instead of freezing all the balls together, just make them half inch apart, try it yourself in your home and see how the break works, it's pretty hard. I'm sure there can be tools made to accomplish this for the 9ball, 10ball, and 8ball too. Just a tool that racks in the same type of look but keep balls half inch apart. even you can do it by hand if you want without a tool. 9 ball would still look like a diamond but half inch apart just imagine it, nothing goes, but break will be hard, no matter how hard you break things will not break up, so then now creativity comes into play in breaking.

I don't know just a thought, I think break is kinda ridiculous in the games we play, winners are usually due to luck, because if you got lucky you will play better and all pro's can play.
 
Dechaine would still demand a re-rack.


"uhmmm...these 2 balls here are a mini-micro-millimeter above a 1/2 inch" (puts hand on waist)
 
Dechaine would still demand a re-rack.





"uhmmm...these 2 balls here are a mini-micro-millimeter above a 1/2 inch" (puts hand on waist)


Hahaha that's actually funny , but I don't think it would matter much since the break will be hard which will result in people behaving less intense about how frozen or not frozen the balls are, they just wouldn't care anymore.

Plus there will be tool that can split them apart exactly where they should be, the problem with the normal freeze rack is that all the balls will be tight as a one giant ball so any mistake will push one ball away and makes it unable to freeze to others, then comes the wing ball automatically in and all sort of issues


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Dechaine would still demand a re-rack.


"uhmmm...these 2 balls here are a mini-micro-millimeter above a 1/2 inch" (puts hand on waist)
That is some funny shit right there!

I have turned more than one of his matches off because it is annoying to watch. I can't imagine how painful it would be to be his opponent.

The sad part about it is that he is one of my favorite players to watch when you take the racking issues out of play

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.

Paul Schofield has a racking solution called No Conflict Rules... www.goldcrownbilliardseriepa.com



.


I read this and I'm sorry it solves nothing, it's basically rack your own quickly without looking. Pro's would still take ages to get them tight, then the second problem of luck and who gets the best of it on the break would win , be it alternative breaks doesn't change the fact.


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a better way to speed up the start of the game is to have whoever shoots firsts after the break must play safe. that also takes the luck out of the game and also puts some of the moving and thinking back in.
 
Time Clock with a LOUD buzzer.
The time clock starts after you got all the balls in the rack.
"You get 30 seconds to rack the balls. If they're not racked by then and you keep fooling with them the buzzer goes off and it's loss of that game for you. Then you get to keep at it under another 30 seconds...same thing applies."
(Watch how fast it gets done)
 
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People tend to practice the break on 10ball, 9ball, even 8ball, to get good result, but then again lets be honest, sometimes your break does not work on certain tables and balls get kicked and in the end of the day its mostly about your luck.

People love to smash the break shot, the player who gets a very good luck in their break most of the time wins a 9ball match purely due to the break, because then again most pro's know how to runout, its a matter of layouts and break luck.

Even the greatest breakers in the world sometimes their break does not work, (hint shane in the 9ball finals against ko last year) and prior to shane's match his break was working perfectly, then again it was a disadvantage to his opponent, so the break is big shot, and its a very lucky shot too which is either so bad to the game, or so good depends on how you look at it.

I remember one of the old guys who play pool told me one day, it's crazy that the most important shot in this game is a luck shot, and he is actually right.

I got a solution, but it's a change to the games too, it will solve few things.

1) luck in the break.
2) racking issues where guys take forever to rack their balls or their opponent balls.


Now it's a big change and I don't know if people would like the idea but here it goes.

Instead of freezing all the balls together, just make them half inch apart, try it yourself in your home and see how the break works, it's pretty hard. I'm sure there can be tools made to accomplish this for the 9ball, 10ball, and 8ball too. Just a tool that racks in the same type of look but keep balls half inch apart. even you can do it by hand if you want without a tool. 9 ball would still look like a diamond but half inch apart just imagine it, nothing goes, but break will be hard, no matter how hard you break things will not break up, so then now creativity comes into play in breaking.

I don't know just a thought, I think break is kinda ridiculous in the games we play, winners are usually due to luck, because if you got lucky you will play better and all pro's can play.

I disagree with your basic premise. I think people with a good break improve their odds significantly on the break. If they are NOT doing that, then I wouldn't say they have a good break. A lot of people think they are breaking well because they are hitting the head ball hard, or square. If that's all you think the break is, then yes indeed, it is a luck shot. I really don't see people practicing their break all that much. I think the vast majority of players rally have no idea how to improve their break, or even what a good break is. Sure you can look at isolated incidents in which a player has trouble with their break. But for example, citing SVB in the WPC finals...for every example like that, there are 50 examples of him dominating the break. Overall I think that is true for anyone who understands what a good break is, and how to get it.

Your proposal is interesting. However, I believe it would take much more time to space the balls out like that than to rack up an acceptable rack. IMHO of course.

KMRUNOUT
 
I disagree with your basic premise. I think people with a good break improve their odds significantly on the break. If they are NOT doing that, then I wouldn't say they have a good break. A lot of people think they are breaking well because they are hitting the head ball hard, or square. If that's all you think the break is, then yes indeed, it is a luck shot. I really don't see people practicing their break all that much. I think the vast majority of players rally have no idea how to improve their break, or even what a good break is. Sure you can look at isolated incidents in which a player has trouble with their break. But for example, citing SVB in the WPC finals...for every example like that, there are 50 examples of him dominating the break. Overall I think that is true for anyone who understands what a good break is, and how to get it.

Your proposal is interesting. However, I believe it would take much more time to space the balls out like that than to rack up an acceptable rack. IMHO of course.

KMRUNOUT

I can make a template that would put the gaps in place but it would likely be a clusterf#$k on the racking end as all the ball will be in collision paths and with the gap the players will still be cutting the 1 off the front to play it in the sides or figure something else out....

The pro players are good enough now about the rack and break that they will figure something out... 10ball... 10 on the Spot and using an Accu-Rack Pro-10 is brutal enough that it might solve it.. Just would have to find someone willing to try it in a tournament.......
 
Yeah this would work great right up until someone solved the riddle of it. I know someone like Deuel would find a way to make it in his favor due to his creativity. It is fun to watch. I do not think this even begins to fix any issues. This would just cause more issues. A simple game of nine ball could last much longer this way IMO. Oh look they are all clustered. I will just play safe and then safe and then safe and then safe and you get the point.
 
A player racks the balls.
Then they use a coin flip to determine who breaks.
Every rack.
:eek::eek::eek::grin:
 
We already have a solution to all of this.
It's called the magic rack (or accu-rack).

It solves both the amount of time it takes to rack,
and largely eliminates the luck. Good players have already shown us it's possible
to make a specific ball consistently, and control the 1 ball.

The only reason not to use it, is this irrational fear people have of
"what if it isn't removed and some ball rolls off a millimeter and it changes the whole game?!!"
Which almost never happens and is easily dealt with by just removing it carefully asap.

And what happens when we take most of the luck out of the break?

People cry that it makes the break too easy, or makes the game too boring and predictable,
that the rack rigs it so everyone has a wired free trick shot, and so on.

So we need to pick one, and commit to it. We should stop trying to have it both ways...
no more "let's use a wood triangle for a little extra randomness and luck, but let's
have them rack their own so they can still try to control the outcome with skill".

That's the worst of all worlds... it takes forever to get the rack tight, which bores the spectators,
and it's unreliable for the breaker, which pisses off the player, and it introduces opportunities for cheating.
 
While not a fan of foreign objects on the table Outsvilles Accu-Rack is the best and a final solution to rack issues & mechanics.

As far as the age old argument, "the wing balls wired". Well guess what, it's always been wired & if not that, the cut break puts 1 in the side as well as the wing ball and 10 ball isn't a solution as that breaks now wired with the ball behind the head ball in the side. You move the 9 on the spot & it doesn't change other than a different style break to wire a ball there & on & on.

Use the damn ACCU-RACK to insure a proper rack. Past that just get over it. Open & Pro level players are going to figure a way to make a ball on the snap. Embrace it, recognize that this game SHOULD be a run & gun fest, that's what rotation pool is, a game for gunslingers. All of this forced push after the break stuff is just nonsense, break & runs are part of the sport, without them you've changed the sport to something it's not.
 
We already have a solution to all of this.

It's called the magic rack (or accu-rack).



It solves both the amount of time it takes to rack,

and largely eliminates the luck. Good players have already shown us it's possible

to make a specific ball consistently, and control the 1


I really can't believe you're saying this, how on earth do you think that magic rack is good, it literally killed the game, and by you saying players make a specific ball consistently and controlling the one is a good thing??? We must live in different planets then, it's one of the worst things ever that you can easily and with no effort make the corner ball, players even disgusted by it, it's so bad I can't even explain it. I can't see how you think it's good, I'm sorry.

You can have two great players but one can win it 9 to 1 without the other guy making mistakes that's how awful the magic rack is and that's just one example, there are several.

It's like what Johnny archer once said, he said how on earth can a guy compete in a running race if one guy runs and the other sits in his chair without even running in the race, that what the magic rack potentially do, you could be a better runner but not allowed to show it, just sitting and watching your opponent run, then Johnny said how can our game become a sport if both players not given exact chances like in other sports.



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The breaker continues to shoot regardless of a ball made or not, as long as it is a legal break.

It would seem to solve the problem to me.

I read this and I'm sorry it solves nothing, it's basically rack your own quickly without looking. Pro's would still take ages to get them tight, then the second problem of luck and who gets the best of it on the break would win , be it alternative breaks doesn't change the fact.


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I really can't believe you're saying this, how on earth do you think that magic rack is good, it literally killed the game

Well again, you have to decide:

You want the break to be luck, or you want it to be a controlled skill shot?
Because you said luck on the breaks was a problem that needs a solution.

This stuff you hate about the magic rack, is what happens when the break is 100%
a skill shot and all the luck is removed. So maybe you don't really want to "Fix" luck.
Maybe luck on the break is not a problem, if you're a fan who wants to see interesting games.

Personally I think it's an exaggeration that magic rack ruins anything.
Ten ball with magic rack is just about perfect.
Most pros still fail to make a ball 40-50% of the time.
Guys like shane might make a ball 70% of the time but even the best breaker
will have a dry break once per set. And it's not a soft break, though Jayson Shaw
sure seemed to hit it soft in the 10-foot challenge recrently. But so far, only one
guy seems to be doing that.
 
The breaker continues to shoot regardless of a ball made or not, as long as it is a legal break.

It would seem to solve the problem to me.

I think the main objection people have to this is it feels like giving up because the problem
is too tricky. "We can't figure out how to balance luck and skill on the break so
let's just forget it and give the breaker an automatic shot".

It removes entertainment value for the spectators and levels the playing field
between those who practice the break and those who don't.

It's like there's a tug of war between "Fair for the player" and "entertaining for the viewer"
and this rule errs way too far on the side of fair.

Besides, pros will futz with the rack anyway. They will still want to sink as many
balls as possible because as shane often demonstrates,
it's easier to run 6 or 7 balls after the break, rather than all 10.
 
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