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what is this "sex" you speak of?
See...you have been unconscious when you were having sex.
A Subconscious Rattling Problem. Help?
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See...you have been unconscious when you were having sex.
I hope that when you say you are "playing" on tables that tight, you just mean that you are practicing on them. I also frequently practice on a tight table, but don't consider play on anything that plays much tighter than a 4.5" Diamond a good indicator of someone's overall pool game. I can't even stand watching the pros play on tight tables for more than a few racks. If those tables are all you are playing on, do yourself a favor and switch to a looser table every once and awhile and have some fun instead of torturing yourself all the time.
That said, when practicing on tight tables, here are a few things that help me out:
When lining up shots, make sure you are visualizing the entire ball going between the points of the pocket. Brushing the rail is often a result of trying to put the center of the ball in the center of the pocket instead of the center of the pocket opening.
Recognize that not all shots are affected the same way by tightening the pockets. Depending on the angles of the pocket facings and depth of the shelf, some shots that are available on a "normal" table are no longer available or very low percentage shots. In particular, the maximum angle that a ball can be shot into the side pockets and the distance from the pocket you can brush the rail on corner shots are greatly affected by the way the pocket is cut.
Understand what physical and mental state you are in. If you are tired, sore, irritable, etc., playing on a tight table may just be an exercise in futility. Repeated precision shot-making requires a lot of focus, so don't beat yourself up if it's not there from time to time.
Read this article and try the techniques described. The procedure has been shown to be effective.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/PBReview/ChangingBadHabits.htm
Thanks to Dr Dave for hosting some of my articles from a now defunct web site.
Here is a link to some of the original work.
http://fulltext.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2001/acsms/papers/BAKE1.pdf
http://billiards.colostate.edu/PBReview/ChangingBadHabits.htm
Thanks to Dr Dave for hosting some of my articles from a now defunct web site.
Here is a link to some of the original work.
http://fulltext.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2001/acsms/papers/BAKE1.pdf
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One thing that may or may not help: "Accepting spin" is, for the most part, a myth...
Most shots are moving too fast for sidespin to change the angle of the ball as it comes off the rail.
When you talk about the ball catching the rail on the way in you mean like the red line, right?
I firmly believe spin didn't play any role in getting that ball to drop, 99.99% of the time,
The ball would have gone with no spin or even the opposite spin, as long as the speed is the same.
In fact the spin may have died by the time it arrived at the hole.
In other words, you've been making shots because you aimed them correctly,
the spin was extra and never needed. But if you're comfortable using it, it won't hurt
anything either. You don't need to change the spin, just the aim.
So, you're already committed to not hitting that rail on the way in.
That's good. You're right, a Diamond won't put up with that.
Tweak your aim to the outside jaw. Use that as a visual target.
Do this on every cut on or near the rail. You'll be terrified of overcutting it at first...
fight that fear and let it happen. I think you'll find those balls drop so much easier
and eventually you'll find you've got the opposite mindset... bobbling a ball in off the long rail
feels risky, while playing always to the thin side of the pocket feels like the only safe way to shoot it.
One other thing... in that pic, you wanna shoot that ball with low left, am I right?
I used to spin every ball in like that. Breaking that habit was the hardest thing I had to do in pool,
and years later I'm still working on it. But it was worth it.
Knowing how to use english is fine. HAVING to use english is a crutch.
Most shots are moving too fast for sidespin to change the angle of the ball as it comes off the rail.
When you talk about the ball catching the rail on the way in you mean like the red line, right?
I firmly believe spin didn't play any role in getting that ball to drop, 99.99% of the time,
The ball would have gone with no spin or even the opposite spin, as long as the speed is the same.
In fact the spin may have died by the time it arrived at the hole.
In other words, you've been making shots because you aimed them correctly,
the spin was extra and never needed. But if you're comfortable using it, it won't hurt
anything either. You don't need to change the spin, just the aim.
So, you're already committed to not hitting that rail on the way in.
That's good. You're right, a Diamond won't put up with that.
Tweak your aim to the outside jaw. Use that as a visual target.
Do this on every cut on or near the rail. You'll be terrified of overcutting it at first...
fight that fear and let it happen. I think you'll find those balls drop so much easier
and eventually you'll find you've got the opposite mindset... bobbling a ball in off the long rail
feels risky, while playing always to the thin side of the pocket feels like the only safe way to shoot it.
One other thing... in that pic, you wanna shoot that ball with low left, am I right?
I used to spin every ball in like that. Breaking that habit was the hardest thing I had to do in pool,
and years later I'm still working on it. But it was worth it.
Knowing how to use english is fine. HAVING to use english is a crutch.
I've never heard using side spin to make a ball go into the pocket with more success. Well, obviously I have but not by anyone who's word I trust.One thing that may or may not help: "Accepting spin" is, for the most part, a myth...
Most shots are moving too fast for sidespin to change the angle of the ball as it comes off the rail.
When you talk about the ball catching the rail on the way in you mean like the red line, right?
I firmly believe spin didn't play any role in getting that ball to drop, 99.99% of the time,
The ball would have gone with no spin or even the opposite spin, as long as the speed is the same.
In fact the spin may have died by the time it arrived at the hole.
In other words, you've been making shots because you aimed them correctly,
the spin was extra and never needed. But if you're comfortable using it, it won't hurt
anything either. You don't need to change the spin, just the aim.
So, you're already committed to not hitting that rail on the way in.
That's good. You're right, a Diamond won't put up with that.
Tweak your aim to the outside jaw. Use that as a visual target.
Do this on every cut on or near the rail. You'll be terrified of overcutting it at first...
fight that fear and let it happen. I think you'll find those balls drop so much easier
and eventually you'll find you've got the opposite mindset... bobbling a ball in off the long rail
feels risky, while playing always to the thin side of the pocket feels like the only safe way to shoot it.
One other thing... in that pic, you wanna shoot that ball with low left, am I right?
I used to spin every ball in like that. Breaking that habit was the hardest thing I had to do in pool,
and years later I'm still working on it. But it was worth it.
Knowing how to use english is fine. HAVING to use english is a crutch.
I had a lesson in English 8 ball just for balls frozen to the rail by one of the best English pool instructors there are. Amongst other things he always put extra emphasis on using top spin and "forgiving" speed to increase your chances. I don't know if the top spin was just BS but if it is its had a placebo affect of me. Balls seem to stick to the rail and frozen rail balls are notoriously hard on English pool tables. Anyone know if there is any truth to this?
Thanks much Matt.
I realize & do a lot of what you say.
I had generally not played on such tight tables but the 'better' players at the hall that I am now frequenting only seem to play or want to play on those 3 tables. I can certainly play on them but that one type shot where I subconsciously shade to what normally would be the high percentage side pops up & ruins what was a good thing.
I'll get it one way or another.
You've given me a visualization idea, thanks again &
Best Wishes,
Rick
Thanks Joe.
Is there a subliminal audio that I can listen to when I sleep to make all that happen?:wink:
Best to Y'a.
Rick
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One thing that may or may not help: "Accepting spin" is, for the most part, a myth...
Most shots are moving too fast for sidespin to change the angle of the ball as it comes off the rail.
When you talk about the ball catching the rail on the way in you mean like the red line, right?
I firmly believe spin didn't play any role in getting that ball to drop, 99.99% of the time,
The ball would have gone with no spin or even the opposite spin, as long as the speed is the same.
In fact the spin may have died by the time it arrived at the hole.
In other words, you've been making shots because you aimed them correctly,
the spin was extra and never needed. But if you're comfortable using it, it won't hurt
anything either. You don't need to change the spin, just the aim.
So, you're already committed to not hitting that rail on the way in.
That's good. You're right, a Diamond won't put up with that.
Tweak your aim to the outside jaw. Use that as a visual target.
Do this on every cut on or near the rail. You'll be terrified of overcutting it at first...
fight that fear and let it happen. I think you'll find those balls drop so much easier
and eventually you'll find you've got the opposite mindset... bobbling a ball in off the long rail
feels risky, while playing always to the thin side of the pocket feels like the only safe way to shoot it.
One other thing... in that pic, you wanna shoot that ball with low left, am I right?
I used to spin every ball in like that. Breaking that habit was the hardest thing I had to do in pool,
and years later I'm still working on it. But it was worth it.
Knowing how to use english is fine. HAVING to use english is a crutch.
Creedo,
Thanks & I'm sure that that post will help others too.
I think you are correct about shooting them to the 'thin' side & have done that but have point rattled a number that way too. They look good right up until they hit just inside the point & don't go. As I said in my 1st post, I have rolled balls 1/4" off the rail straight down & hit the face definitely inside the point & the ball does not go & also rolling right down the rail hit TOO hard does not go either.
A 'funny' thing happened the other day. I was banking the 4 ball across side with not 'much' angle. I hit it really good & considered it down as it was slowly rolling to the pocket (the sides are larger on these tables). The outside edge of the cue ball barely grazed the point & bounced in a manner that I can not recall in all of my years playing. I was so shocked that I even had to sit down & sip on my water for awhile. I still don't know how it did what it did. I know these rails bank short & that shot has me wondering about the points. I also shot the 12 ball that was sitting against a side point trying to bank it back in the corner off the point & it did not react as I had predicted but... I might not have quite hit that one just right. But those two shots have me thinking about Diamond points & the banking short rep.
As to the low left...no, I shoot them with all types of english depending on what I what the CB to do. The best thing that I ever did way back in the day was to shoot with not just outside but with inside english too. As you say that makes english a tool & not a crutch.
Now I have another question. Are you saying that you can hit a rail hard with english & the spin will not turn the ball? I'm asking because of your your 'no helping spin' except at pocket speed statement.
Thanks Again & Best Wishes,
Rick
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Pidge,
I've shot them every which way to get, or try to get, my cue ball somewhere. Naturally they can be made every way if hit correctly but before TOI, if I had to make one with no regard to the cue ball, I would shoot them with about double pocket speed with high inside english. They just seem to have a higher percentage of makes that way. JMO
Best,
Rick
some tables play too tight. I don't like buckets but I do like about 4.5 pockets. You have a need to create angles for next shot. When the table doesn't accept balls hit in at certain angle like down the rail with a little speed you have to play more safe on those. It changes the game too much. I think every ball should go in that is hit good and not rattle out if hit with speed. The next guy can play pocket speed and make the exact same shot and then position suffers. It all comes down to if it was hit good it should go in.
Nothing I know of that has been found to work,
I have a 9' Diamond with 4.25 inch pockets. And yes, I used to have a rattling fear when I played on Brunswick tables.......until I studied CJ Wiley's TOI system. Using inside English the cue ball WILL GO IN on my Diamond table hitting a rail first IF THE RIGHT SPIN IS USED. BTW, my table's pockets suck the balls right in, better so than 4.5 Brunswick bouncy pockets, which I HATE with a passion.
Surely you have been playing pool with English for 47 years by now???
I've thought about the same thing Rick and I think I have simply resolved to say that the tighter pockets simply require more precision. A little less speed on the object ball would help them to fall but that's about it, just greater precision than what you are using right now.
How do you get that precision, you say? Seek and you may find, or not.
JoeyA
Spin always turns a ball off the rail, but the question is, how much does that affect the line it takes?
Does it change the path of the object ball so much that after brushing the rail,
the object ball hits the nipple instead of going in the hole?
Or it hits the facing, but then spins away from the hole (instead of into the hole)?
In my opinion, the answer to the above questions is almost always "no".
If your cut fell without spin, then it would also fall with spin.
That's assuming we're both talking about the shot diagrammed, the 'bobble-in' cut near a rail.
Bear with me, I may be over-explaining with this image.
You already know that the wider the angle of the 'bank', the less effect spin has on it...
Imagine the cue ball near the spot being kicked 1 rail towards the side pocket.
You use a ton of reverse on it. Instead of going on the black dotted line, the cue ball
holds up and goes on the solid black line. Reverse spin shortened up the angle by like 22-23 degrees.
The cue ball ended up further down & left than it normally would.
The second kick into the far corner is a much wider angle to start out with (blue dashed line).
Again the cue ball ended further down & left than it usually would.
But this time the spin only shortens it up by about 10° - 11°.
As you bank wider and wider, the spin holds up the ball less and less...
down to 7 degrees... 3 degrees... 1 degree...
Eventually, at a VERY wide angle, the spin no longer holds up the ball at all, not even by 1 degree.
It takes basically the same path it would take with no spin.
And you get the same issue with running english...
wider & wider angles = less & less effect on the cue ball's path.
So imagine a "kick" whose starting angle is extremely wide... as wide as the red line at the top right.
It hits the long rail and 'banks' into the facing of the pocket.
No matter how much left (or right) you put on this cue ball, it's not going to miss that pocket facing.
You can no longer make the cue ball hit south or left of its original target.
Those ultra-wide angles are what we're dealing with, when we look at those 'bobble in' rail cuts.
Even at max spin you're not going to miss the facing, or hit it very close to the nipple.
And it's not like the object ball has a massive amount of spin...
the object ball can't be spun as much as the cue ball could.
With a perfect setup, the OB only keeps a maximum of about 1/3rd of the cue ball spin.
Usually it will be much less.
So, the short version: those bobble in shots hit the same place on the pocket facing
no matter what spin you use, because the angle into the rail is so wide
that spin cannot change the ball path enough.
And if a ball hits the pocket facing in a place that would normally allow the shot to drop,
spin cannot twirl it out of the hole. Because A: object balls only keep less than half the spin
that you put on the cue ball and B: the shot's moving too fast for spin to really grab the rail
and change the object ball's course.
TOI....it's not cheating, but sometimes it feels that way......in a good "way"
Are you talking about the cue ball or object ball? The "Ball Acceptance Spin" (B.A.S.) does create a noticeable advantage using TOI....it's not cheating, but sometimes it feels that way......in a good "way" of course.
Are you talking about the cue ball or object ball? The "Ball Acceptance Spin" (B.A.S.) does create a noticeable advantage using TOI....it's not cheating, but sometimes it feels that way......in a good "way" of course.
Are you talking about the cue ball or object ball? The "Ball Acceptance Spin" (B.A.S.) does create a noticeable advantage using TOI....it's not cheating, but sometimes it feels that way......in a good "way" of course.
You might want to read this article and it's associated articles. http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/pocket.html
Spin always turns a ball off the rail, but the question is, how much does that affect the line it takes?
Does it change the path of the object ball so much that after brushing the rail,
the object ball hits the nipple instead of going in the hole?
Or it hits the facing, but then spins away from the hole (instead of into the hole)?
In my opinion, the answer to the above questions is almost always "no".
If your cut fell without spin, then it would also fall with spin.
That's assuming we're both talking about the shot diagrammed, the 'bobble-in' cut near a rail.
Bear with me, I may be over-explaining with this image.
You already know that the wider the angle of the 'bank', the less effect spin has on it...
Imagine the cue ball near the spot being kicked 1 rail towards the side pocket.
You use a ton of reverse on it. Instead of going on the black dotted line, the cue ball
holds up and goes on the solid black line. Reverse spin shortened up the angle by like 22-23 degrees.
The cue ball ended up further down & left than it normally would.
The second kick into the far corner is a much wider angle to start out with (blue dashed line).
Again the cue ball ended further down & left than it usually would.
But this time the spin only shortens it up by about 10° - 11°.
As you bank wider and wider, the spin holds up the ball less and less...
down to 7 degrees... 3 degrees... 1 degree...
Eventually, at a VERY wide angle, the spin no longer holds up the ball at all, not even by 1 degree.
It takes basically the same path it would take with no spin.
And you get the same issue with running english...
wider & wider angles = less & less effect on the cue ball's path.
So imagine a "kick" whose starting angle is extremely wide... as wide as the red line at the top right.
It hits the long rail and 'banks' into the facing of the pocket.
No matter how much left (or right) you put on this cue ball, it's not going to miss that pocket facing.
You can no longer make the cue ball hit south or left of its original target.
Those ultra-wide angles are what we're dealing with, when we look at those 'bobble in' rail cuts.
Even at max spin you're not going to miss the facing, or hit it very close to the nipple.
And it's not like the object ball has a massive amount of spin...
the object ball can't be spun as much as the cue ball could.
With a perfect setup, the OB only keeps a maximum of about 1/3rd of the cue ball spin.
Usually it will be much less.
So, the short version: those bobble in shots hit the same place on the pocket facing
no matter what spin you use, because the angle into the rail is so wide
that spin cannot change the ball path enough.
And if a ball hits the pocket facing in a place that would normally allow the shot to drop,
spin cannot twirl it out of the hole. Because A: object balls only keep less than half the spin
that you put on the cue ball and B: the shot's moving too fast for spin to really grab the rail
and change the object ball's course.
Creedo,
Thanks for all of that but it certainly was not necessary for me.
But It certainly should help some one.
Best to Y'a,
Rick
Thanks Joey,
I think I figured out my specific issue when replying to Pidge.
Keep in mind I am not hitting center cue ball.
I'm playing the cue ball from off of the hit that would send the ball to the percentage side. I'm not really doing that consciously. My subconscious is doing that. So...I have to recognize that & make a conscious effort to precisely target inside of the point and make another type adjustment if I want the cue ball path to be different.
I don't like having to over rule my subconscious. He doesn't like it either.:wink:
Best to Y'a,
Rick