ABP boycotts Berhman's event

I understand what the players are trying to accomplish, but they are shitting where they eat. From what I understand, Barry loses money every year and comes out of his own pocket to pay the players. It sounds like he would be better off to not have the open but he does it for the betterment of pool.

Without the Behrman, Greg Sullivan, Janis, and Mark Griffin there would almost be no professional pool in America.

There hasn't been a well established and good paying tour for pool in 20+ years. Anyone who wants to start one is losing money so what is the incentive?

I really hope this gets worked out, but without the players the tourney will die. Without the tourney the players are screwed.

I don't see Dechaine on that list. Is he the favorite to win now?
 
I can't wait to see how the ABP will deal with Mike Zuglan's Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour with the lack of their precious seeding.

Wouldn't it be swell if at the next Middle East tournament, three American pros show up? :smile:

All for one and one for all.
 
brandoncook26 said:
I understand what the players are trying to accomplish, but they are shitting where they eat. From what I understand, Barry loses money every year and comes out of his own pocket to pay the players. It sounds like he would be better off to not have the open but he does it for the betterment of pool.

Without the Behrman, Greg Sullivan, Janis, and Mark Griffin there would almost be no professional pool in America.

There hasn't been a well established and good paying tour for pool in 20+ years. Anyone who wants to start one is losing money so what is the incentive?

I really hope this gets worked out, but without the players the tourney will die. Without the tourney the players are screwed.

I don't see Dechaine on that list. Is he the favorite to win now?
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Last I heard Corey pulled out of the group as well. I suspect this will shake out who is in and who is out in real life instead of on some list someone put together.

Interesting point....the Open in the past has been a deciding event for points standings to get on the Mosconi Cup team. What happens if a guy is on the bubble ? Who is gonna ditch a spot on the Mosconi Cup because of a beef with Barry thats been going on forever ? Guess we'll see how committed some people are.

It just seems to me that this is like shooting someone in the face with a rocket launcher because they took your parking space.....it's a little too much too soon in the situation.
 
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will it benefit the game in the long run? Or possible help destroy one of the best tournaments of all time. I wish that they could work something out with Barry instead of taking this action. If the sport was stronger and had a lot of promoters (i.e. where it was profitable for them), then this move would make more sense.

I understand that the players want to protect themselves but beggars can't be choosers. The business of running tournaments isn't very profitable, so whom is going to run the future tournaments that allow a professional to make a respectable living? Maybe the ABP can organize a tour under their guidelines that will be successful. History is against them. Good Luck.
 
JAM the seminole events are all races to 8 except for the round robin events which are best of 9. I dont think that is going to matter, the players are all coming.

They are selecting the US Open event to make a stand on. I guess they hope BB will provide what they want or if he doesnt they will try to make the tournament a huge money loser for BB by not attending. Which im sure is a smart move, one that will pay off for professional pool in the USA in the end. Like I said before just look at history. Pool players make great financial decisions for the long term.
 
CallShotCowboy said:
Just got this release, and thought I would share with the rest of you. Thoughts?





ABP Pro Players Not Attending the 2011 US Open 9-Ball Championship
From ABP General Attorney Dennis Walsh

Chicago, Illinois- It is with regret that the general professional body of the Association of Billiard Professionals will not be attending the 2011 US Open 9-Ball Championship promoted by Mr.Barry Behrman. Nor will these ABP pros attend the Masters 10-Ball or any event promoted by Mr.Behrman because of monies owed to players and lack of secure funds of prize money before each of his events.

One of the goals of the Association of Billiards Professionals is to provide a platform where touring professionals can pursue the sport they love as a full time career and achieve reasonable financial success. To that end discussions have been ongoing since last year with representatives of the US Open and representatives of the ABP.

Repeated attempts by the ABP organization to obtain guarantees that the prize money will be in place have been refused and therefore it is with regret that the Association and its members have decided to neither support nor attend the 2011 US Open 9-Ball Championship. Notwithstanding the Association’s deep respect for Barry Behrman for his contribution to pool these many years, the players simply cannot commit their time and their expenses for an uncertain payday.

"As a former US Open 9-Ball champion, it's painful to not be able to attend this year, as it is always great to play in it. However, the ABP and its goals are more important than my personal goals, and we need to start taking the necessary steps to pave the way for the future of the game and its up and coming stars."- Rodney Morris, ABP Board of Directors

"It is with sadness that I must withdraw from one of my favourite tournaments ever. In doing so, I hope the sacrifices we are making raises the standard of the elements that our beautiful sport lacks. The ABP's goals are to the benefit of the sport and to restore the confidence of cooperation between players, associations and promoters alike. I stand behind this vision fully. " - Mika Immonen, ABP Board of Directors and Two time US Open 9-Ball Champion.

"The US Open is the greatest and most prestigious event on American soil. I am truly sorry we cannot attend this event. But we have an obligation to protect all players now and in the future. I am hopeful in the future all things will be worked out so all players can participate in all great and safe tournaments." - Johnny Archer, President of the ABP.

Regardless if this is a BCA or WPA Sanctioned event, the following ABP Professional Players will not attend:


Johnny Archer USA
Mika Immonen FIN
Efren Reyes PHI
Francisco Bustamante PHI
Darren Appleton ENG
Shane Van Boening USA
Rodney Morris USA
Alex Pagulayan PHI
Dennis Orcullo PHI
Thorsten Hohmann GER
Lee Van Corteza PHI
John Schmidt USA
Corey Deuel USA
Huidji See NED
Mike Sigel USA
Nick Varner USA
Buddy Hall USA
CJ Wiley USA
Tony Drago MLT
Raj Hundal ENG
Karl Boyes ENG
Imran Majid ENG
Marcus Chamat SWE
Roberto Gomez PHI
Carlo Biado PHI
Warren Kiamco PHI
Antonio Lining PHI
Jundel Mazon PHI
Shawn Putnam USA
Mike Davis USA
Stevie Moore USA
Oscar Dominguez USA
Charlie Williams USA
Dennis Hatch USA
Jeremy Jones USA
Allen Hopkins USA
Scott Frost USA
Ernesto Dominguez MEX
Kim Davenport USA
Rob Saez USA
Tony Crosby ENG
Art Wiggins USA
Tommy Najar USA

This list will be updated as more pro members join and may choose to not participate.
Click to expand...


A couple of random thoughts:

First, though the letter sounds rather bold, all it's going to take is one or two defections and that will turn into an avalanche. You are fighting years and years of players accepting being manhandled by promoters. It's almost been like some abusive marriage where the person being abused actually enables the abuser. In this same vein, there is the challenge of overcoming an ingrained "every man for himself" mentality. That won't be easy to beat either.

As it sits, this list effectively guts the event. But IMO the only way to staunch defections and for the organization to stay on course would be to offer players a reasonable alternative. IOW, an alternate event to compete at and earn some money. (It is a somewhat sad statement of affairs that with a rooster like this an event can't get sponsored.) Udderwise, come US Open time, the players, should they hold the line, will all be sitting around with their collective thumbs up their collective... well, you know, instead of playing pool.

Lou Figueroa
 
names

I did not see Shannon Daltons name on the list? I think its time for Dalton, Janis,and Sullivan to get together and make a us open happen. Mike Janis get the whells turning and make something happen even by yourself.Your respected tour and yourself speaks for its self alone.Come on MIKE show them.
.......Take over. Rich aka the skunk.
 
dardusm said:
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will it benefit the game in the long run? Or possible help destroy one of the best tournaments of all time. I wish that they could work something out with Barry instead of taking this action. If the sport was stronger and had a lot of promoters (i.e. where it was profitable for them), then this move would make more sense.

I understand that the players want to protect themselves but beggars can't be choosers. The business of running tournaments isn't very profitable, so whom is going to run the future tournaments that allow a professional to make a respectable living? Maybe the ABP can organize a tour under their guidelines that will be successful. History is against them. Good Luck.
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Very good points, and I agree about the tour.

I must say that the ABP seems to be more cohesive than the UPA was at its inception.

In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing the ABP rise in stature and eliminate the BCA, the WPA, and all the other minions in the blue-blooded pool caste system.

I can envision the ABP advancing pool on a global scale much more so than I can advancing pool in the United States. Since the existing lot of American pros continues to dwindle due to the financial hardships competing on a full-time basis, this is one direction that might benefit pool as a sport.

It must be said, though, that Mark Griffin should to be commended for the strong presence he's created in American pool with his support, financial and otherwise. Without him, I believe American professional pool would be a dead fish in the water.
 
know it all said:
I did not see Shannon Daltons name on the list? I think its time for Dalton, Janis,and Sullivan to get together and make a us open happen. Mike Janis get the whells turning and make something happen even by yourself.Your respected tour and yourself speaks for its self alone.Come on MIKE show
them.......Take over. Rich aka the skunk.
Click to expand...

What is there to take over? An event that never that makes enough to cover expenses? Once the Open is gone no one is going to pick it up in its current form.
 
know it all said:
I did not see Shannon Daltons name on the list? I think its time for Dalton, Janis,and Sullivan to get together and make a us open happen. Mike Janis get the whells turning and make something happen even by yourself.Your respected tour and yourself speaks for its self alone.Come on MIKE show them.
.......Take over. Rich aka the skunk.
Click to expand...

Agreed. That would be an excellent pool powerhouse to get things rocking and rolling.:smile:
 
CallShotCowboy said:
J
One of the goals of the Association of Billiards Professionals is to provide a platform where touring professionals can pursue the sport they love as a full time career and achieve reasonable financial success.
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OK. So the APB has shown that it can boycott an event (to what extent the boycott is effective, we shall see - perhaps not all APB members are in agreement? - Stand together, fall divided...). But what to make of the above statement. What "platform" are they creating here? They have initiated a negative response, but what are they doing that is proactively creating this "platform...to achieve reasonable financial success"?

I am completely behind these wonderful champions getting their due. But the reality is that expanding professional level tournament pool to a greater and paying audience is the only thing that will allow for a sustainable professional pool career. What are they doing to promote their sport???
 
brandoncook26 said:
I understand what the players are trying to accomplish, but they are shitting where they eat.
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And, unfortunately, they have a historical habit of doing just that, over and over and over again.
No outfit run by the players has benefited them in the long run.
If it appears that most of the players on that list will boycott, which I'm not quite ready to believe, I may not attend and would be very disappointed.
 
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How much does it cost to run one of these events?

- convention space - concession stands, spectator seating (for 12 people, lol) - 10-30k
- internet stream.. - 15k
- pool table rental, or purchase *gulp* - 25k
- pool table set up, repair, cleaning - 2 mechanics
- referees - at least 3-4 ppl
- staff to run the event - 5-6 ppl
- promotions/advertising/marketing

I'm guessing you're looking at 50-75k to just set it up.

And then you get to the prize money....
 
know it all said:
I did not see Shannon Daltons name on the list? I think its time for Dalton, Janis,and Sullivan to get together and make a us open happen. Mike Janis get the whells turning and make something happen even by yourself.Your respected tour and yourself speaks for its self alone.Come on MIKE show them.
.......Take over. Rich aka the skunk.
Click to expand...

A US open would be nice, but that is only one step. What we need is a sustainable series of pro events. Let's even agree to call it a tour. We need repeatable, scheduled and affiliated events (maybe even a pro pool league??????). Not this grab bag, pot luck style of my tourney here, your random tourney there, kind of thing.
 
jalapus logan said:
...What are they doing to promote their sport???
Click to expand...

It's the ol' chicken-and-the-egg scenario.:D

There are some pool peeps promoting pool, but most can't afford to make ends meet. Pool isn't a big money maker unless you have somebody paying all your bills for you, like a sponsor, backer, or corpulent stakehorse. The payouts in pool suck. We all know that. Industry members are suffering due to the economy. Pool is exploding in Asian countries and diminishing elsewhere. :frown:

I like the ABP vision. I agree with it. It will be interesting to see how transparent they are as time goes on. If it's legit, then this might be the best thing that's happened since the jump cue! :eek:
 
Oh yeah. We currently have the NFL lockout and the NBA lockout. Why not have a professional pool lockout as well?

Oh yeah, there is no such thing as professional pool...
 
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