ABP boycotts Berhman's event
- Thread starter CallShotCowboy
- Start date
12ozCurl
Banned
Greenies for you! I Agree 100%
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More info is available upon request.
Aside from all the cheap banter, premium content is available and can deliver the solutions you need for a price.
Sign up now and mention AZBILLIARDS for a promotional discount.
Also available is exclusive content on "How to renegotiate a contract when new people takeover the account."
For a limited time only you can also subscribe to exclusive columns written by writers no longer bound to non-disclosure agreements by previous employers to learn the inside track on business deals in the 21st century and how to stay ahead of the competition by knowing upcoming changes to the law.
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Not only that Mark, but I'm betting Dennis is doing this pro bono, as the ABP has no funds to pay an attorney or anybody else. They also (as you know) had the services of a prominent businessman, who helped formulate the mission statement, and offered more guidance...all for free. They didn't take the advice (what a surprise). This looks to me like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face! I guess we'll have to wait and see how it turns out.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I think that's why they want to seed it so they do get to play a no name in the first round. Seeding isn't the worst idea because it allows the best players to be there in the end but what list are they going to use to seed? The ABP will be lucky to make it past this year, IMO
I do agree with boycotting an event that does not post up the pay out. But, since the ABP is less than a year old and didnt say any reason other than the history prior to the ABP forming, then I think its a little bit to early for them to make a boycott letter. No, I am not saying that they should wait to get stiffed and then make a decision, but, I would think that the ABP would contact that specific event and attempted to get a contract with them because of the history. Now if that event did not sign a contract or just not willing to discuss the issue with them, then I could understand boycotting that event but I would state that in my boycott letter.
As far as the ABP wanting seeding and determine the rules and how long the races are? That is a long way down the road for them to have that type of power in my opinion.
Honestly, in my opinion they should be trying to promote themselves as a total package. If they are organized to say they want to boycott something then they better be organized enough to gaurantee the top 16 or 32 well known players in the US to show up to a tournament.
What will a promoter do for the top 16 or 32 to come to their tournament? Might be very little at the beginning, but if they prove they are an asset and draw the spectators or secondary business business proffits, then they have a proven product that next time they can ask for more. Notice I said ask, once you start demanding,,,,then you better be ready to hear "thank you very much, but your no longer needed" answer.
As far as the ABP wanting seeding and determine the rules and how long the races are? That is a long way down the road for them to have that type of power in my opinion.
Honestly, in my opinion they should be trying to promote themselves as a total package. If they are organized to say they want to boycott something then they better be organized enough to gaurantee the top 16 or 32 well known players in the US to show up to a tournament.
What will a promoter do for the top 16 or 32 to come to their tournament? Might be very little at the beginning, but if they prove they are an asset and draw the spectators or secondary business business proffits, then they have a proven product that next time they can ask for more. Notice I said ask, once you start demanding,,,,then you better be ready to hear "thank you very much, but your no longer needed" answer.
If the some of the greatest players don't think an event is worth playing in, then I don't think an event is worth watching.
Why go watch an event with anything less than the greatest players? However the boycott does leave the calender of the players open and able to attend competing events. During their usual circuit it seems room owners or people interested in an exhibition are able to reserve these players since their schedule is open.
I'll take dibbs on players with Southern accents or Eastern European accents. The room I play in could use some cultural diversity. Maybe some filipinos, but the room I operate in might not handle the Asian accent as well as the other types. I just wouldn't want the room to become misunderstanding central.
Why go watch an event with anything less than the greatest players? However the boycott does leave the calender of the players open and able to attend competing events. During their usual circuit it seems room owners or people interested in an exhibition are able to reserve these players since their schedule is open.
I'll take dibbs on players with Southern accents or Eastern European accents. The room I play in could use some cultural diversity. Maybe some filipinos, but the room I operate in might not handle the Asian accent as well as the other types. I just wouldn't want the room to become misunderstanding central.
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hmmm... well, I really don't ever follow all these leagues, apb,kbg,avg,pba,pos.. stuff, so I really don't know what the hell's going on. I only know what I pick up from reading these threads.
My feeling is.. I don't want to see a event that has been around for 30 some years, go away. I also don't want to see somebody continue to slow pay the players. Now, if the players pretty much know this is going to happen, then they are prepared for it. They know if they win, they might not get the money for several months. I can't really say I remember anyone saying the NEVER got paid.. just that it took awhile.
It would be nice if Barry could get the message that it's not allright to continue with his way of doing business. He needs to understand that he had to do, whatever it is he has to do, to guarantee the money regardless. If it means cutting this back or that back.. so be it. Maybe when times get better it can be more over the top.. but when times are tough, you have to adapt and change plans.
Hmmm... this is the perfect time for all those unemployed pool players to go mix it up at the new TAR Studio !!!
Yeah... no better way to say FU Barry.. we aint' playing if you ain't paying, then to go bet it up HIGH over at the TAR Studio. That's right .. get involved in a big matchup.. get exposed to the masses of pool fans to better maximize your sponsorship possibilities....
PLUS, one of the widely known facts are... if you play on TAR, you got the "cool" factor going for you now. If you're one of those uptight, can't get the cob out of your ass walking type of guy.... let your damn hair down dude!! Open up that shirt a little, mess up that perfect hair, get some stinkie on your pinkie, and come on down to the TAR Studio.
Important:::: Have 2 shots before you get there. You can't be drunk fool... but you need to take the edge off, so you can bark up a good game and back it up. Get that roll of 100's and wear that bulge proudly in that front pocket. Oh.. so SVB lounging around there on the couch??? Sheeeeetttt........ C'mon Boiw!!! Yeah, you're da man, but you ain't played THE man. You can do it man!!!! Think of it.. you play the best set of your life and you ROCK that kids world, LIVE ON PPV!!!! Yeah.. Dat's what I'MM talkin bout!!!! C'mon Shanneee... I'll send you to Mars:smile:
{oh.. sorry.. got carried away there, just picturing what it would be like to hang out with a bunch of players at the new TAR Studio and have a good time... like the old days}:embarrassed2::smile:
Anyways... in case you were living in under Oprah........ If you do have a opening in your schedule and want to make something happen!!!
Just
Do
It!
My feeling is.. I don't want to see a event that has been around for 30 some years, go away. I also don't want to see somebody continue to slow pay the players. Now, if the players pretty much know this is going to happen, then they are prepared for it. They know if they win, they might not get the money for several months. I can't really say I remember anyone saying the NEVER got paid.. just that it took awhile.
It would be nice if Barry could get the message that it's not allright to continue with his way of doing business. He needs to understand that he had to do, whatever it is he has to do, to guarantee the money regardless. If it means cutting this back or that back.. so be it. Maybe when times get better it can be more over the top.. but when times are tough, you have to adapt and change plans.
Hmmm... this is the perfect time for all those unemployed pool players to go mix it up at the new TAR Studio !!!
Yeah... no better way to say FU Barry.. we aint' playing if you ain't paying, then to go bet it up HIGH over at the TAR Studio. That's right .. get involved in a big matchup.. get exposed to the masses of pool fans to better maximize your sponsorship possibilities....
PLUS, one of the widely known facts are... if you play on TAR, you got the "cool" factor going for you now. If you're one of those uptight, can't get the cob out of your ass walking type of guy.... let your damn hair down dude!! Open up that shirt a little, mess up that perfect hair, get some stinkie on your pinkie, and come on down to the TAR Studio.
Important:::: Have 2 shots before you get there. You can't be drunk fool... but you need to take the edge off, so you can bark up a good game and back it up. Get that roll of 100's and wear that bulge proudly in that front pocket. Oh.. so SVB lounging around there on the couch??? Sheeeeetttt........ C'mon Boiw!!! Yeah, you're da man, but you ain't played THE man. You can do it man!!!! Think of it.. you play the best set of your life and you ROCK that kids world, LIVE ON PPV!!!! Yeah.. Dat's what I'MM talkin bout!!!! C'mon Shanneee... I'll send you to Mars:smile:
{oh.. sorry.. got carried away there, just picturing what it would be like to hang out with a bunch of players at the new TAR Studio and have a good time... like the old days}:embarrassed2::smile:
Anyways... in case you were living in under Oprah........ If you do have a opening in your schedule and want to make something happen!!!
Just
Do
It!
If they are lobbying for a seeded event they just lost my support.
If I decide to toss my no-chance amateur entry fee into the mix all I want is a fair shake. They don't get that these events live or die on the backs of the amateurs willing to donate and get into the ring with the pros. What a bunch of weenies.
Seeding is bull-shee-toe.
Lou Figueroa
It is either the amateurs that think they can make it, or the no show corporate ghost sponsor. What is seeding by the way. Is that when top rank pros are initially placed into later rounds of the tournament, so they don't knockout weaker players early in the tournament.
It looks like the same thing that always happens when a few top players get together. They think the tail can wag the dog.
I hope Barry runs his tournament the best he can under the circumstances and if he does I think several of the players on the list will play.
I have mixed feelings -- at some point the players need/must stand up for themselves. I'm just not sure that this is the wisest course.
Lou Figueroa
The irony is Barry sent a letter out before the US Open 9-ball event of 2010 claiming he would have the prize money on display.
AZBILLIARDS Story of Barry telling everyone he will display the cash and have it protected by armed guards at the US Open 2010 9ball event.
So the players are requesting that instead of hire armed guards and put on a display just show them he has the money. Be reasonable and don't spend on armed guards just prove you can deliver when you say you will.
As for the players taking action as publicly as this, it is unfortunate Barry hasn't maintained better relations with the players especially after all the years they have worked together. At the 2010 US Open 9ball the US Open champions did give Barry a backhanded insult gift, describing him with a racial slur. Despite their personal opinion of Barry, they showed up to the event and played.
Maybe that is how the old days were, people do what they have to because they have no choice. You might not like the people you do business with, but you think about the fans that would miss out because there is no other place for players to showcase their talent. And so the players keep their expectations high despite what reality is telling them. Today the players are planning a boycott to at least get Barry's attention and possibly begin a dialog. The boycott hasn't even taken place, but it is a great point to start negotiations. Unless the two groups decide to play chicken, in that case it is better that they split ways, instead of suffer mutual disappointment.
AZBILLIARDS Story of Barry telling everyone he will display the cash and have it protected by armed guards at the US Open 2010 9ball event.
So the players are requesting that instead of hire armed guards and put on a display just show them he has the money. Be reasonable and don't spend on armed guards just prove you can deliver when you say you will.
As for the players taking action as publicly as this, it is unfortunate Barry hasn't maintained better relations with the players especially after all the years they have worked together. At the 2010 US Open 9ball the US Open champions did give Barry a backhanded insult gift, describing him with a racial slur. Despite their personal opinion of Barry, they showed up to the event and played.
Maybe that is how the old days were, people do what they have to because they have no choice. You might not like the people you do business with, but you think about the fans that would miss out because there is no other place for players to showcase their talent. And so the players keep their expectations high despite what reality is telling them. Today the players are planning a boycott to at least get Barry's attention and possibly begin a dialog. The boycott hasn't even taken place, but it is a great point to start negotiations. Unless the two groups decide to play chicken, in that case it is better that they split ways, instead of suffer mutual disappointment.
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12ozCurl
Banned
Greenies for you good sir! Valid Points!
I know I'm not good enfough to win the US Open, but I spend my money anyways. Why? Because if the stars align and something insane happens...I may atleast place in the money. And the memories and friends made are worth far more than $500.
Gracias.
The amazing thing to me, from a PR point of view, is that the pros will ultimately have to wage the battle for support of their cause in the court of public opinion. Which in this sport mainly consists of (guess who) amateur players.
Weenies.
Lou Figueroa
I knew this was coming and hoped it could be averted beforehand. I'm in a difficult position here, on the one hand a TD of the Open and on the other hand a supporter of the players and professional pool. I don't have enough information to comment yet.
I can say this, a similar boycott by the Mackey led MPBA in 1994 cost the players the Los Angeles Open 9-Ball Championship. We had paid out $140,000 in prize money in 1993 and $160,000 in 1994, the year of the boycott. ALL prize money was paid IMMEDIATELY! What the players (and Mackey) wanted then was a 50-50 cut on all revenues from the event, including the gate and vendor booths. To agree to this would have been financially suicide, a 100% guarantee that I would lose money! So naturally I refused and the event went on anyway.
Funny thing was that on the last day several of the top pros of that time period (you know who you are) showed up at the Open, hat in hand, to apologize to me. They openly regretted missing the tournament and the prize money being awarded to the top finishers. Mark Tadd was the top winner, receiving $26,000! That was the last L.A. Open!
Let's hope this boycott works out a little better for them.
I can say this, a similar boycott by the Mackey led MPBA in 1994 cost the players the Los Angeles Open 9-Ball Championship. We had paid out $140,000 in prize money in 1993 and $160,000 in 1994, the year of the boycott. ALL prize money was paid IMMEDIATELY! What the players (and Mackey) wanted then was a 50-50 cut on all revenues from the event, including the gate and vendor booths. To agree to this would have been financially suicide, a 100% guarantee that I would lose money! So naturally I refused and the event went on anyway.
Funny thing was that on the last day several of the top pros of that time period (you know who you are) showed up at the Open, hat in hand, to apologize to me. They openly regretted missing the tournament and the prize money being awarded to the top finishers. Mark Tadd was the top winner, receiving $26,000! That was the last L.A. Open!
Let's hope this boycott works out a little better for them.
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Successful
It is probably safe to say that the most successful individual sport in terms of sponsorship, player compensation and fan base is the PGA.
The PGA is governed by the player /members. Granted that the high school and college team system coupled with the demographics of the amateurs are different, but, can you imagine for just a moment what would happen if following the US Open the players were not paid?
I support the ABP and their stated mission as shown on their website. I also believe they need to acquire the same quality of management for their organization as the PGA has done. Again, the PGA is governed by the players, it is not MANAGED by the players.
Moreover, I would like to see someone like Mark G step up and provide his combination of love for the sport, energy, industry contacts and knowledge to assist the pros. Just imagine the quality and distribution of play if hundreds of pros could make a reasonable living playing full time.
It is probably safe to say that the most successful individual sport in terms of sponsorship, player compensation and fan base is the PGA.
The PGA is governed by the player /members. Granted that the high school and college team system coupled with the demographics of the amateurs are different, but, can you imagine for just a moment what would happen if following the US Open the players were not paid?
I support the ABP and their stated mission as shown on their website. I also believe they need to acquire the same quality of management for their organization as the PGA has done. Again, the PGA is governed by the players, it is not MANAGED by the players.
Moreover, I would like to see someone like Mark G step up and provide his combination of love for the sport, energy, industry contacts and knowledge to assist the pros. Just imagine the quality and distribution of play if hundreds of pros could make a reasonable living playing full time.
Seeded tournaments...
...are about as fair as the lions vs. the Christians. Memories and friendships notwithstanding, what rational man wants to pony up $500 or so when you're just about GUARANTEED to catch a real hitter no later than round three? That's Mackey-era stuff.
Can someone make clear exactly what the conflict is here? At first it seemed to be the players rebelling against getting stiffed, which they have every right to do. (Didn't Tony Annigoni run a tournament a few months back in which nobody get paid ANYTHING? How can that be right?) Now it's about changing the tournament format somehow? Why? Do they honestly think there are name pool players who put fannies in seats where others don't? That's just too naive.
It's an impressive list of players on the boycott list, all right. I wonder how many of them actually know what their names are doing there. GF
...are about as fair as the lions vs. the Christians. Memories and friendships notwithstanding, what rational man wants to pony up $500 or so when you're just about GUARANTEED to catch a real hitter no later than round three? That's Mackey-era stuff.
Can someone make clear exactly what the conflict is here? At first it seemed to be the players rebelling against getting stiffed, which they have every right to do. (Didn't Tony Annigoni run a tournament a few months back in which nobody get paid ANYTHING? How can that be right?) Now it's about changing the tournament format somehow? Why? Do they honestly think there are name pool players who put fannies in seats where others don't? That's just too naive.
It's an impressive list of players on the boycott list, all right. I wonder how many of them actually know what their names are doing there. GF