Accuracy of the Long Straight-in Shot

[greyghost]

If you think of how small the contact point is when 2 perfectly round balls collide then you will realize that this statement is probaly true. All shots must be hit perfect in order to make the shot. place 2 balls together and you will see how small the contact point is. No matter how you place them together the contact point size is the same whether you are straight in or cutting the ball at an angle. I had this discussion with a very very good pool player once in Charlotte, NC at Paradise billiards. I wish I could remember his name???? He taught me alot about the realistic side of aiming and contact..

What makes the straight in is its more dependent on tip placment than other shots. If you don't have a pure stroke and you try to hit center even if your aligned right...but hit to the left or right then the OB will throw off line and you miss. When you use english your already aiming off the side of the ball so if you miss the desired contact point on the CB by a small portion its not going to affect the line of your shot like it does when trying to hit center long and straight in... you miss center by a pinch and you just missed.

Its the same reason many players (matlock for example) use some english on bank shots if your hitting some right english then your going to hit right english basically every time. If you must hit pure center then the chances of you hitting left or right of it are greater and will result in a miss, which makes it a lower percentage shot. Its just a technique that adds another level of consistency.

Its mechanically less forgiving. Thats why its such a good item to use in your pratice regimine. I like shooting it and scratching the CB in the same pocket i make the OB in. I would have to overpower it too much to get it to draw back and scratch from corner to corner, but I can definately put a descent speed on the CB and shoot it straight and follow it without having to try to force anything.

Works well for me too, its one of my bread and butter shots to get me on my game quick if I need to do some preflight checks b/f i take off. It'll help you to diagnose stroke and mechanical problems really easy.

-Grey Ghost

 

[lfigueroa]

Right where I've always been.

Remember, no matter where you go, there you are. -- Buckaroo Banzai in The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension (but see below for an earlier reference)
​

If you measure the distance from the cue ball to the object ball in diamonds and the distance from object ball to the pocket in diamonds and multiply those two numbers together, you get the basic "difficulty" of the shot. This tells you directly how much your alignment can be off when you hit the cue ball. Just divide one centimeter by the difficulty, and that's your allowed error to left or right. The multiplication for the shot above gives 20, so your front hand (for example) must be in the correct position within 1/2 mm to either side or within a 1mm window. That's the thickness of a penny, more or less.

So there's this snooker player where I play who was practicing on one of the 6x12 tables, and he allowed as to how he would bet he could pot the blue and draw the cue ball back to the scratch -- more or less the same position given by the OP. I bet that he couldn't. He did it on the eighth try. With an open bridge.

"So, the cross is always ready and waits for you everywhere. You cannot escape it no matter where you run, for wherever you go you are burdened with yourself. Wherever you go, there you are."
—Thomas a Kempis, Imitation of Christ, ca. A.D. 1440​

OK, .3969. So I was close. Sort of.

Lou Figueroa
always pictured Bob
as more Tom Joad
than Buckaroo Banzai

 

[jay helfert]

You can throw the Physics out the window! I'm here to tell you that for a POOL PLAYER, the long straight in is more difficult than the long, angled cut shot. Now when you're talking about a very thin cut shot from distance, of course that's a harder shot.

I think it has more to do with the way we sight the balls and the steadiness/solidness of our stroke. You need a perfect stroke to execute the long straight in shot. For whatever reason, the cut shot is easier to see and execute. Don't believe me, ask a pool player. A good one!

 

[Maniac]

Often when I judge a cut to be something like 80 degrees, I basically just say "cut until you can't cut anymore and will miss the ball"... and in a way that's maybe easier for me to visualize than a 70 degree cut.

Gosh, and I thought I was the only one using that aiming system .

CreeDo, on another post you said this: "Some might also suggest staring at the pocket as if shooting the CB directly into the heart of it. Makes sense to me." I've also heard the one where you can sight the axis line of your cue straight for the heart of the pocket, focus on the CENTER of the cue ball and let-'er-rip! I've tried this and have had decent success with it.

Maniac

 

[jay helfert]

Gosh, and I thought I was the only one using that aiming system .

CreeDo, on another post you said this: "Some might also suggest staring at the pocket as if shooting the CB directly into the heart of it. Makes sense to me." I've also heard the one where you can sight the axis line of your cue straight for the heart of the pocket, focus on the CENTER of the cue ball and let-'er-rip! I've tried this and have had decent success with it.

Maniac

Buddy told me once that he aimed to shoot "through" the object ball and not into it.

 

[ShootingArts]

I sometimes pick a comfortable aimpoint

Buddy told me once that he aimed to shoot "through" the object ball and not into it.

Once I select the line the cue ball is going to travel down and extend it to the rail or pocket I sometimes focus on a point on that line. It might be in front of or behind the point where the cue ball actually contacts the object ball. Works well for many shots. Maybe I'll start telling folks I am using the Buddy Hall method when I do that, sounds a lot more impressive than that I use the Hulucination method!

Hu

 

[greyghost]

Gosh, and I thought I was the only one using that aiming system .

CreeDo, on another post you said this: "Some might also suggest staring at the pocket as if shooting the CB directly into the heart of it. Makes sense to me." I've also heard the one where you can sight the axis line of your cue straight for the heart of the pocket, focus on the CENTER of the cue ball and let-'er-rip! I've tried this and have had decent success with it.

Maniac

thats how most of the top players in oklahoma line up. Just hold the cue up in front your face and look through it making it inline with the shot....thats why its important. Many players can easily get thier body in line with the cue stick, but they don't know how to get the CUE INLINE with the shot....then the body adjusts in relation to the alignment of the cue stick.

Its nothing more than a rifle, you aim it straight at the target...you can even see through the shaft and line up the edges on the tight cut shots with the edges of the shaft and again drop in PERFECT on the shot. You aim the cue stick not the CB...the stick is the rifle and the CB is the bullet. Bullets are shot not aimed, guns are aimed and they shoot the bullet.

Kind of a exagerated reference b/c you do sometimes need to aim with the CB on certain shots, but you get my point.

There's a particular set up technique that you can do to accomplish it correctly that is the nutz...easy to learn and remember and apply in no time.

 

[TATE]

Once I select the line the cue ball is going to travel down and extend it to the rail or pocket I sometimes focus on a point on that line. It might be in front of or behind the point where the cue ball actually contacts the object ball. Works well for many shots. Maybe I'll start telling folks I am using the Buddy Hall method when I do that, sounds a lot more impressive than that I use the Hulucination method!

Hu

I don't know, Hu - for me I think the rifle shot is a lot harder (using just a tripod on a bench).

I tried that pool shot last night and it wasn't that difficult. I made most of them (4" pockets). I didn't fire the ball, just shot them in.

I have a couple of fairly accurate Sako's with 24X scopes and I would have to be pretty lucky to nail a dime. I can group fairly tight for factory barrel rifles and factory ammo, (.223 and .243) but nailing a dime from 100 yards requires the scope to be right on, the barrel to be a consistent temperature, good conditions, consistent loads, etc. etc. Maybe once I got it warmed up and sighted in, I could hit one fairly consistently but in the long run I would much rather take the pool shot.

Chris

 

[Neil]

................

 

[TXsouthpaw]

Id call BS too. I use those to warm up and can drill em 10 or more in a row and I aint no efren. Rifle shots gotta be harder than that.

 

[greyghost]

Id call BS too. I use those to warm up and can drill em 10 or more in a row and I aint no efren. Rifle shots gotta be harder than that.

dude they are not talking about us lefties....they are speaking about the mortal right handers. Everyone knows that shots easier left handed.

 

[jay helfert]

I tend to look at a straight in shot like a freethrow in basketball, it shouldn't but rarely be missed. Every time you shoot it, it's exactly the same. (unless you are jacked up or bridging off the rail)

I was going to hold this part back, but I decided to post it... The final "trick" to making them, in addition to what I already said, once you are on line, and KNOW you are hitting the cb dead center, forget about the cb. Make the top of the ob your cb and try to hit it with your tip. You don't need to exagerate your follow through, just let it stop where it's supposed to, but shoot like you are going to hit the ob with your tip.

Once again, GREAT information from Neil here! I mean it. :thumbup:

 

[NewStroke]

I tend to look at a straight in shot like a freethrow in basketball, it shouldn't but rarely be missed. Every time you shoot it, it's exactly the same. (unless you are jacked up or bridging off the rail)

I was going to hold this part back, but I decided to post it... The final "trick" to making them, in addition to what I already said, once you are on line, and KNOW you are hitting the cb dead center, forget about the cb. Make the top of the ob your cb and try to hit it with your tip. You don't need to exagerate your follow through, just let it stop where it's supposed to, but shoot like you are going to hit the ob with your tip.

That's good info. Thanks Neil.

I'm able to see a line to the pocket, this helps "guide" my cue.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

I don't know, Hu - for me I think the rifle shot is a lot harder (using just a tripod on a bench).

I tried that pool shot last night and it wasn't that difficult. I made most of them (4" pockets). I didn't fire the ball, just shot them in.

I have a couple of fairly accurate Sako's with 24X scopes and I would have to be pretty lucky to nail a dime. I can group fairly tight for factory barrel rifles and factory ammo, (.223 and .243) but nailing a dime from 100 yards requires the scope to be right on, the barrel to be a consistent temperature, good conditions, consistent loads, etc. etc. Maybe once I got it warmed up and sighted in, I could hit one fairly consistently but in the long run I would much rather take the pool shot.

Chris

This is a bit NPR but it's probably your ammo. Factory ammo is usually loaded to maximum velocities which is almost always detrimental to good accuracy, especially in the .243. Give handloading a try. Once you have the equipment set up, you can experiment until you have the right load for each gun, and it will be less expensive in the long run. Remember that the only interesting gun is an accurate gun. Just like a long, straight, corner to corner shot in pool. Hey! It's pool related after all. :smile:

 

[ShootingArts]

"Accurate"

I don't know, Hu - for me I think the rifle shot is a lot harder (using just a tripod on a bench).

I tried that pool shot last night and it wasn't that difficult. I made most of them (4" pockets). I didn't fire the ball, just shot them in.

I have a couple of fairly accurate Sako's with 24X scopes and I would have to be pretty lucky to nail a dime. I can group fairly tight for factory barrel rifles and factory ammo, (.223 and .243) but nailing a dime from 100 yards requires the scope to be right on, the barrel to be a consistent temperature, good conditions, consistent loads, etc. etc. Maybe once I got it warmed up and sighted in, I could hit one fairly consistently but in the long run I would much rather take the pool shot.

Chris

Chris,

The key is what is accurate. My best aggregate(five 5 shot groups) with my factory Remington 700 .308 was a . 403 but over the long run it had trouble holding consistently under .600". My AR and my benchrest rifles all have custom barrels and are smithed to a level far beyond any factory rifle. Then they are tuned and tweaked from there. I won't detail all I do in handloading but it is as involved as building the rifle. Custom bullets, the projectile itself, is another huge component and finding which one your rifle likes. The last time I moved I had over 200 pounds of handmade bullets just for my 6PPC's. Then I'm set up to load at the shooting range so I tune for the conditions of the moment. The result was not just a best aggregate of under .125" for my 6PPC but a best aggregate of five 5 shot groups that every group was under .125". That is still considerably better than the official world record the last I knew.

Another key is a set of windflags that you know well. Without my windflags out I am shooting blind. With the windflags out I'm getting the feedback how to steer my rifle. Even with the AR-15 which just happens to have a custom barrel from the same maker as my benchrest barrels and a trigger by a benchrest supplier, I can count on placing a bullet within at worst under two-tenths of an inch from where I aim it. The AR is scary accurate, most groups in the .2's with windflags out. It shoots about .05" behind my benchrest rifles with far less money or work in it. The outside extremes of my group can be almost an inch and still hit a dime. That gives me an allowance of .75" inch of error in reading the wind on my part. That just isn't going to happen at 100 yards.

Not directed at Chris but I notice some folks skeptical about the rifles, some going so far as to call BS. I'll say it again, the window is wide open for anyone that wants to bet against me hitting a dime ten times out of ten at 100 yards with a rifle, including the AR. Do a little homework first though, I'm stealing with this bet.

Hu

 

[greyghost]

I tend to look at a straight in shot like a freethrow in basketball, it shouldn't but rarely be missed. Every time you shoot it, it's exactly the same. (unless you are jacked up or bridging off the rail)

I was going to hold this part back, but I decided to post it... The final "trick" to making them, in addition to what I already said, once you are on line, and KNOW you are hitting the cb dead center, forget about the cb. Make the top of the ob your cb and try to hit it with your tip. You don't need to exagerate your follow through, just let it stop where it's supposed to, but shoot like you are going to hit the ob with your tip.

Rep to you brother! (sadly the gods insist that i spread more around b/f i pay homage lol, Dam the GODS! neil thats exactly my point when referencing and likening the cue to a rifle. The cue ball doesn't matter, the stick is providing direction so why not just use it to aim to where you want the ball to go. Its one of those things either you know how to shoot like that or you wish you did.

Not to mention its so easy a cave man can do it easy to teach and easily repeatable too.

 

[Tommyd1]

It's interesting that some of you compare this shot to shooting a rifle and being able to place your bullet into the a group the size of a dime at 100 yards, this being with a scope and being with the use of a bench rest I would imagine, if it's with open sights I think every SWAT TEAM in the world would want to hire you

Shooting a rifle with this kind of precision involves a good sight picture, good breathing control and most importantly a good smooth trigger pull. I'm sure my friend Hu would concur. Everything has to be smooth and steady.

This shot on a pool table also requires a good sight picture ( aim ), good breathing control and a smooth stroke delivery and follow through. I forgot to mention, but follow through is also important in shooting also.

Being smooth is involved in everything from Motorcycle Racing, Automobile Racing and most everything in between.

Good thread- Thanks

Tommyd1

 

[ShootingArts]

It's interesting that some of you compare this shot to shooting a rifle and being able to place your bullet into the a group the size of a dime at 100 yards, this being with a scope and being with the use of a bench rest I would imagine, if it's with open sights I think every SWAT TEAM in the world would want to hire you

Shooting a rifle with this kind of precision involves a good sight picture, good breathing control and most importantly a good smooth trigger pull. I'm sure my friend Hu would concur. Everything has to be smooth and steady.

This shot on a pool table also requires a good sight picture ( aim ), good breathing control and a smooth stroke delivery and follow through. I forgot to mention, but follow through is also important in shooting also.

Being smooth is involved in everything from Motorcycle Racing, Automobile Racing and most everything in between.

Good thread- Thanks

Tommyd1

Tommy,

Your statements are pretty accurate, other than benchrest shooting they would be spot on. The trigger pull is pretty easy on the benchrest guns, under two ounces and the trigger only moves a tiny fraction of an inch before firing. The rifle is fired off of a very stable bench free recoil, only the tip of one finger is touching the rifle when it is fired. The rifle slides back and contacts my shoulder after the bullet has left the barrel. Hold, breathing, most of the places you can make a mistake are eliminated. The AR has a stiffer two stage trigger, eight ounces to pull through the first stage and have it ready to fire, four more ounces to fire it and the movement in the second stage isn't detectable. I use it in the field. My furthest hits are at about a half mile at a target about eight inches tall by two to three inches wide.

The sniper or across the course shooter has to be concerned with hold, breathing, their own heartbeat, and all the things you mentioned. This becomes much more like a pool shot where there are many different things to go wrong. Holding the AR and shooting the dime from an improvised position I'd say would be fairly close to shooting the pool shot in terms of difficulty. I'd probably still take the rifle shot though. At my age and weight I'm better at holding still than moving!

Hu

 

[TXsouthpaw]

dude they are not talking about us lefties....they are speaking about the mortal right handers. Everyone knows that shots easier left handed.

Oh yeah I forgot lol

 

[TATE]

Chris,

The key is what is accurate. My best aggregate(five 5 shot groups) with my factory Remington 700 .308 was a . 403 but over the long run it had trouble holding consistently under .600". My AR and my benchrest rifles all have custom barrels and are smithed to a level far beyond any factory rifle. Then they are tuned and tweaked from there. I won't detail all I do in handloading but it is as involved as building the rifle. Custom bullets, the projectile itself, is another huge component and finding which one your rifle likes. The last time I moved I had over 200 pounds of handmade bullets just for my 6PPC's. Then I'm set up to load at the shooting range so I tune for the conditions of the moment. The result was not just a best aggregate of under .125" for my 6PPC but a best aggregate of five 5 shot groups that every group was under .125". That is still considerably better than the official world record the last I knew.

Another key is a set of windflags that you know well. Without my windflags out I am shooting blind. With the windflags out I'm getting the feedback how to steer my rifle. Even with the AR-15 which just happens to have a custom barrel from the same maker as my benchrest barrels and a trigger by a benchrest supplier, I can count on placing a bullet within at worst under two-tenths of an inch from where I aim it. The AR is scary accurate, most groups in the .2's with windflags out. It shoots about .05" behind my benchrest rifles with far less money or work in it. The outside extremes of my group can be almost an inch and still hit a dime. That gives me an allowance of .75" inch of error in reading the wind on my part. That just isn't going to happen at 100 yards.

Not directed at Chris but I notice some folks skeptical about the rifles, some going so far as to call BS. I'll say it again, the window is wide open for anyone that wants to bet against me hitting a dime ten times out of ten at 100 yards with a rifle, including the AR. Do a little homework first though, I'm stealing with this bet.

Hu

That's amazing shooting. The AR sounds like a really terrific sniper/varmint set up.

As I am sure you gather, I used to target shoot recreationally. I'm kind of sorry I didn't get the heavy barreled rifles but I like the beauty of sporting rifles. With standard barrels, taking my time (so the barrel would stay cool) and premium factory ammo, with the .223 I could sometimes shoot 10shots within a 1" group and maybe get one or two flyers. Once the rifles was zeroed, I was picking the staples out of the target

I used to think that was pretty good until one day a benchrest guy set up next to me. I could see through my scope he was grouping small, so I took a break and put my spotting scope on his target. I watched him for the full session watching his first hole get a little larger with each shot, then the second, third, etc. I couldn't believe how accurate he was. In fact, from 100 yards, I bet he could was more accurate than most people would be if they took their finger, put some ink on it, and repeatedly poked a spot on a piece of paper.

The accuracy of a fine tuned benchrest rifle, a powerful scope, and handloaded ammo, in the hands of an experienced marksman, cannot be disputed.

I bet most people here don't even know what a benchrest rifle looks like. Attached is a pic (from the internet) of a pretty cool looking benchrest rifle (6mm ppc).

Chris