Damn! You mean I've been trying to hit something that's not there all this time?!!! And who took it without telling me?!!! No wonder my game sucks! Or are you gonna tell us what's up?
Best,
Mike
Aiming - what does Efren know, that no one else does ?
- Thread starter Yoda4962
- Start date
Damn! You mean I've been trying to hit something that's not there all this time?!!! And who took it without telling me?!!! No wonder my game sucks! Or are you gonna tell us what's up?
Best,
Mike
No, but that is a great prompt. We just finished adding about 20 videos with Tony Robles to my website and I'm planning some new videos for the next round... I'll definitely add this demo.
The main thing when practicing this skill is it begins with a commitment to get close enough to be willing to smack the top of the cue ball in practice and foul. Many players "learned" early in their careers to create a large tip gap to avoid the foul--then they wiggle their strokes and move their body angles in all kinds of hurtful, subtle ways to make contact with the cue ball where they aim. If the player has a reasonable tip gap when they set into the stance--without needing to move either arm or the feet forward or shuffle around--they are "glued to the cue ball" and can stroke with more confidence...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79f5vvdtiUg
Maybe that might help.
Maybe that might help.
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That if you start out playing very young and you are in action all the time with great players to emulate and you are diligent about practicing unusual ways to move the cue ball you will eventually become the type of player that people refer to as the magician.
If any of us had the same exact experience that led Reyes to Red's in Houston in 1985 then it's a lock that we would all be very very very good. Mayne not as good as Efren because there is that thing called character that is of course different for every person but with the same conditions no able bodied person of average intelligence could fail to become a world class player.
If any of us had the same exact experience that led Reyes to Red's in Houston in 1985 then it's a lock that we would all be very very very good. Mayne not as good as Efren because there is that thing called character that is of course different for every person but with the same conditions no able bodied person of average intelligence could fail to become a world class player.
Yes, and I talk about building Quiet Eyes either on the cue ball or the object ball at my website. The research was done at my alma mater in 1999.
John,
I tend to agree. Although I would not be so all inclusive of all able bodied of average intelligence people. Those kinds of statements will bring on keyboard 'savants'.:wink:
Best Regards to You &
I played Efren for $20,000 in Seattle at an all Filipino Pool Room
I've played Efren many times and we do many things very similar (as far as striking the cue ball). He DEFINITELY looks at the cue ball and he told a friend of mine that he looks at it last...Remember, it was Mike Lebon that hinted about the TOI method in 91 and if you watch Efren play you will see him hit the "floating shot" that is the sign of TOI. Granted he can use any spin, but hits the cue ball basically the same every chance he gets.
I played him for $20,000 in Seattle at an all Filipino Pool Room for 14 straight hours. I missed 6 balls the entire time and came out 1 game behind (this match was witnessed by a room full of people and he actually out broke me because I was knocking object balls off the table when I hit them hard) , we ( I was with Tommy Rey from Dallas) won the money because I was getting 3 on the wire to 22. No rematch was ever discussed.
He uses a version ( I say version because we've never discussed it) of the TOI and those that are using it now will be able to see it. Watch videos of him playing and pay attention to the sound his cue makes and the reaction of the cue ball with "NO SPIN" after contact....this can only be done cuing to the Inside....that's a fact.
PS: on page 126 (shown below) there was an article that I hadn't seen before when they were trying to get me to tell them about the "Touch of Inside" technique.AIMING TECHNIQUES OF THE PROS
THE FINAL SECRET
There you have it, the secrets of aiming
from dozens of the top players who do it
best. But then again, is the secret really
out? #2 ranked C J Wiley offers that you
must aim before you get down on the ball
by lining up correctly, of course, but adds
that as far as his aiming method itself,
"There are certain things you don't tell.
Last time I wrote anything about aiming,
somebody copied it and started selling it."
I considered Chinese water torture, but
I don't think he would've cracked.
I guess the secret may still be out
there... somewhere. •
I've played Efren many times and we do many things very similar (as far as striking the cue ball). He DEFINITELY looks at the cue ball and he told a friend of mine that he looks at it last...Remember, it was Mike Lebon that hinted about the TOI method in 91 and if you watch Efren play you will see him hit the "floating shot" that is the sign of TOI. Granted he can use any spin, but hits the cue ball basically the same every chance he gets.
I played him for $20,000 in Seattle at an all Filipino Pool Room for 14 straight hours. I missed 6 balls the entire time and came out 1 game behind (this match was witnessed by a room full of people and he actually out broke me because I was knocking object balls off the table when I hit them hard) , we ( I was with Tommy Rey from Dallas) won the money because I was getting 3 on the wire to 22. No rematch was ever discussed.
He uses a version ( I say version because we've never discussed it) of the TOI and those that are using it now will be able to see it. Watch videos of him playing and pay attention to the sound his cue makes and the reaction of the cue ball with "NO SPIN" after contact....this can only be done cuing to the Inside....that's a fact.
PS: on page 126 (shown below) there was an article that I hadn't seen before when they were trying to get me to tell them about the "Touch of Inside" technique.AIMING TECHNIQUES OF THE PROS
THE FINAL SECRET
There you have it, the secrets of aiming
from dozens of the top players who do it
best. But then again, is the secret really
out? #2 ranked C J Wiley offers that you
must aim before you get down on the ball
by lining up correctly, of course, but adds
that as far as his aiming method itself,
"There are certain things you don't tell.
Last time I wrote anything about aiming,
somebody copied it and started selling it."
I considered Chinese water torture, but
I don't think he would've cracked.
I guess the secret may still be out
there... somewhere. •
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Hi CJ,
Did this match with Efren happen around '95 or '96 ?
I believe Mark V was Efren's backer then.
Shortly after he matched up with you, he matched up with Jimmy Wetch ( giving him the 7 ). I thought you and Efren matched up in Dallas.
You also matched up with Bustamante and beat him in Seatle I think.
Bustamante's backer told me you shot the lights out.
I have a vhs tape of your finals match with Efren at the Bicycle.
Great match, Efren barely beat you ( you were undefeated the whole tournament ). I also drove Efren to the airport to fly to Orlando when he won that ESPN tournament against you. This was around '96 - '97 iirc.
As far as Efren's aiming , everytime we ask him how to shot a shot, he almost always says the cueball is here then on.
I might see him in a few months. I'll ask if he does put a toi on most of the shots if I can.
Your Feel and Touch also comes directly from the cue ball, not the object ball.
I played Luat in Seattle first and he beat me (I was on the hill), then refused to EVER play me again. I went up to him after he won the set and ask "do you want to play tomorrow?" he shook his head "next week?" he shook his head again...."next month" ..nothing...I shook my head and immediately matched up and played Efren.
This was an incredible match and yes, we did play one, thousand dollar set in Dallas between tournament matches which he won, but we never played anything serous again. I'm sure he would have played, it just never came up between us again except in tournament matches, and we played several in Major Tournaments.
The ESPN match he beat me in 99 ( I ended up 5th after getting in the finals 3 years in a row) was the last match I played until 2007 US OPEN (I finished 9th after an 8 year sabbatical).
I played Bustemante in LA when he first came to the US...it was Jay H.'s tournament at the Burbank Hilton I believe. Then we gambled a couple of times, the last time at Hard Times and broke even after 4 sets.
I don't claim to know how Efren aims (I ask him his "secret" one time and he told me "NO SPIN", this was a step in the path to TOI), but I do know he aims at the cue ball....this is one of the issues I see players have, they're so "object ball" conscious they forget that the cue ball is the main target, the object ball is secondary.
It's like golf, you FOCUS on the ball you're hitting, not the target (the target requires an alignment system, not an aiming system). The pros can hit it with their eyes closed, and it's not because they're aligned to the target so well, it's because they're aligned to the BALL so well.
One thing is certain, if you don't make a vested effort to hit the cue ball precisely you can forget about "aiming systems," or anything advanced for that matter. Your Feel and Touch also comes directly from the cue ball, not the object ball.
I played Luat in Seattle first and he beat me (I was on the hill), then refused to EVER play me again. I went up to him after he won the set and ask "do you want to play tomorrow?" he shook his head "next week?" he shook his head again...."next month" ..nothing...I shook my head and immediately matched up and played Efren.
This was an incredible match and yes, we did play one, thousand dollar set in Dallas between tournament matches which he won, but we never played anything serous again. I'm sure he would have played, it just never came up between us again except in tournament matches, and we played several in Major Tournaments.
The ESPN match he beat me in 99 ( I ended up 5th after getting in the finals 3 years in a row) was the last match I played until 2007 US OPEN (I finished 9th after an 8 year sabbatical).
I played Bustemante in LA when he first came to the US...it was Jay H.'s tournament at the Burbank Hilton I believe. Then we gambled a couple of times, the last time at Hard Times and broke even after 4 sets.
I don't claim to know how Efren aims (I ask him his "secret" one time and he told me "NO SPIN", this was a step in the path to TOI), but I do know he aims at the cue ball....this is one of the issues I see players have, they're so "object ball" conscious they forget that the cue ball is the main target, the object ball is secondary.
It's like golf, you FOCUS on the ball you're hitting, not the target (the target requires an alignment system, not an aiming system). The pros can hit it with their eyes closed, and it's not because they're aligned to the target so well, it's because they're aligned to the BALL so well.
One thing is certain, if you don't make a vested effort to hit the cue ball precisely you can forget about "aiming systems," or anything advanced for that matter. Your Feel and Touch also comes directly from the cue ball, not the object ball.
This makes absolutely no sense to me.
Why wouldn't you look at what you're hitting? This makes absolutely no sense to me. You're only hitting the cue ball, the object ball is a reflection of how the cue ball is contacted. Efren aims intently at the object ball when he gets down on the shot.
Why wouldn't you look at what you're hitting? This makes absolutely no sense to me. You're only hitting the cue ball, the object ball is a reflection of how the cue ball is contacted. Efren aims intently at the object ball when he gets down on the shot.
The double pause he does on the cue ball I think confirms that.
Thanks for the vid.
I notice that Efren points his tip at the bottom of the CB on his first stroke and raises it thereafter if necessary.
the greatest players always have a consistent reference point on the cue ball
One thing that you will notice is the greatest players always have a consistent reference point on the cue ball. Mine is about a tip below center, and Efren, Bustemante, use one that's basically where the cue ball connects to the table.
Mizerak said he used that point because it was the most "solid" point (I think he used that word), I wasn't clear on what he meant (maybe someone else knows?). This establishes the same perception of the cue ball, the same cue angle and a consistent "cue tip target reference."
Darrin A. uses the center of the ball and that's how I teach the TOI is to first cue to the center, then shift slightly to the Inside.
One thing that you will notice is the greatest players always have a consistent reference point on the cue ball. Mine is about a tip below center, and Efren, Bustemante, use one that's basically where the cue ball connects to the table.
Mizerak said he used that point because it was the most "solid" point (I think he used that word), I wasn't clear on what he meant (maybe someone else knows?). This establishes the same perception of the cue ball, the same cue angle and a consistent "cue tip target reference."
Darrin A. uses the center of the ball and that's how I teach the TOI is to first cue to the center, then shift slightly to the Inside.
He beat me in the pro tournament finals and I beat him in the California Championship
Can I get a copy of the match between Efren and me that you have? Or, if you could upload it to You Tube. He beat me in the pro tournament finals and I beat him in the California State Championships which was held the week before at the Bicycle Club.
Can I get a copy of the match between Efren and me that you have? Or, if you could upload it to You Tube. He beat me in the pro tournament finals and I beat him in the California State Championships which was held the week before at the Bicycle Club.
This is a good tip, applying the basic preshot routine principle to detailed aspects of the setup. It echoes the same helpful principle commonly applied to aiming: start with a consistent alignment and estimate/adjust from there.
pj <- but we're still not going steady
chgo
it's almost as if we are "of one mind."
Thanks Patrick, it's almost as if we are "of one mind."
Thanks Patrick, it's almost as if we are "of one mind."
Thanks Patrick, it's almost as if we are "of one mind."
i sincerely hope not
How do you spell facetious?
.."Treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant."
appologies, it was just the thought of you and PJ being of one mind :frown:
I stand corrected, it is indeed "flippant".
I stand corrected, it is indeed "flippant". Thanks sheffield, I'm learning a lot on this Forum.
I stand corrected, it is indeed "flippant". Thanks sheffield, I'm learning a lot on this Forum.