Aiming with English

[JohnnyP]

I'm mostly with Patrick on the swerve deal.

If I'm trying to curve around a ball I will hit it low and slow.

However, I see much more swerve when hitting a follow shot with high outside, than I do when hitting it hard with low outside.

Low outside, I have to compensate big time for the deflection. High outside, the swerve can cancel it.

I love to shoot the "L" drill and practice two rail position on the last half of it.

If I get straight on the second to last ball and I'm long, I like to hit high outside and see how far around the table I can get. There is so much swerve that I end up compensating for it, rather than the deflection.

I used to wonder why I missed so many shots when I got on the wrong side of the ball, and I had to pound it in the side and go three rails. High outside swerve overcame the deflection.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think 2 and 3 are reversed for most shots. Hitting high usually causes more swerve than hitting low, because the downward force on the cue ball from hitting high causes more "masse spin" (as if you're hitting with more downward angle) and also causes it to "act" more quickly (because you're pushing the cue ball more forcefully into the cloth).

pj
chgo

Coriolis already showed us how to calculate the swerve angle. It is the same calculation as for the masse angle. Your stick points through the cue ball to a spot on the cloth -- imagine a laser that shoots through the cue ball and burns a hole in the cloth. The cue ball rests on a spot on the cloth. Coriolis's amazing result is that when the cue ball stops swerving, it will be going parallel to a line joining those two spots on the cloth. This predicts that in fact draw shots will have a larger angle of swerve than follow shots even for the same elevation angle.

However....

The ball will continue to swerve as long as it is not rolling smoothly on the cloth. For a draw shot, this means that the swerve will go on for a long time -- until the ball turns over and starts rolling smoothly. For a follow shot with side spin, the ball is almost rolling smoothly from the start, so all the swerve is going to happen in a very short distance. If you had a much longer table, the draw shot would eventually cross the follow shot, but in the short run, the follow shot may appear to have more swerve. I think Dr. Dave has done an article on this or plans to.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The ball will continue to swerve as long as it is not rolling smoothly on the cloth. For a draw shot, this means that the swerve will go on for a long time -- until the ball turns over and starts rolling smoothly. For a follow shot with side spin, the ball is almost rolling smoothly from the start, so all the swerve is going to happen in a very short distance. If you had a much longer table, the draw shot would eventually cross the follow shot, but in the short run, the follow shot may appear to have more swerve. I think Dr. Dave has done an article on this or plans to.

Thanks. I hadn't connected these dots to fully understand the reason for this effect.

Do you think there's any significant difference because of things like:

- "downward squirt" from hitting high vs. "upward squirt" from hitting low?

- hitting more perpendicular to the CB's surface when hitting high vs. low?

pj
chgo

 

[BRKNRUN]

I just put this up on youtube last night and would like some real pool players to look it over. It really wasn't 100% ready to put up but I figure to get some feedback now before its completely ready. Feel free to offer any kind of feedback, good or bad you won't hurt my feelings. and may save me from making some mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=24DC30773D56323B

I just posted same thing in the straight pool section cuz a thread entilted twisted english caught my eye.

Excellent presentation of explaining BHE / FHE and PE......(and I am happy to say it is exactly how I had understood them)

Interesing...I had never thought (or heard) about he concept of using both BHE and FHE together as you walk into the shot.

I typically use BHE for a majority of english applications...I sometimes just use PE in certain situations..usually very short easy shots..."hangers"...I expect I may have been using a form of "walking into the shot" as you describe with the cue angled without knowing it on those shots....(something new to play around with for sure)

Curious...I noticed toward the beginning of the first clip when you set your cue down on the table it "rolled over" as if it was weighted heavier on one side of the cue...It looked like it happened again later in the same clip... Is it just my imagination or is your cue weighted heavier on one side???

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Do you think there's any significant difference because of things like:

- "downward squirt" from hitting high vs. "upward squirt" from hitting low?

- hitting more perpendicular to the CB's surface when hitting high vs. low? ...

I think those are relatively minor and I don't see any shot that would distinguish them from the other effects going on.

In theory there is an "immediate masse" effect when you are elevated which is due to the large amount of force between the cloth and the ball because the ball is being driven into the cloth. This is expected to cancel squirt, and I think it is visible in the aiming line for some full masse shots that go out along a rail and come back hugging the rail. You have to aim away from the rail to start the cue ball straight along the rail. Since this is with a nearly vertical cue stick, the aiming line is a little hard to see.

 

[Joe T]

Excellent presentation of explaining BHE / FHE and PE......(and I am happy to say it is exactly how I had understood them)

Interesing...I had never thought (or heard) about he concept of using both BHE and FHE together as you walk into the shot.

I typically use BHE for a majority of english applications...I sometimes just use PE in certain situations..usually very short easy shots..."hangers"...I expect I may have been using a form of "walking into the shot" as you describe with the cue angled without knowing it on those shots....(something new to play around with for sure)

Curious...I noticed toward the beginning of the first clip when you set your cue down on the table it "rolled over" as if it was weighted heavier on one side of the cue...It looked like it happened again later in the same clip... Is it just my imagination or is your cue weighted heavier on one side???

Thanks. Not weighted but may be warped, its the only cue in the house that isn't meant for low squirt!

 

[dr_dave]

BHE, FHE, pivot length

I just put this up on youtube last night and would like some real pool players to look it over. It really wasn't 100% ready to put up but I figure to get some feedback now before its completely ready. Feel free to offer any kind of feedback, good or bad you won't hurt my feelings. and may save me from making some mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=24DC30773D56323B

I just posted same thing in the straight pool section cuz a thread entilted twisted english caught my eye.

Joe,

As always, good videos.

FYI to you and others, my November '07 BD article has some good illustrations and explanations of BHE and FHE. It also includes a well-illustrated procedure for determining the natural pivot length for any cue.

Check it out,
Dave