Alex Pagulayan going to UK to try pro snooker
- Thread starter gordml
- Start date
You'll know where to find me.
I can't stand the stench of the troll feces on this thread this morning. So sad this guy is allowed to continue to provoke others for no damn reason other than his entertainment. 
TheThaiger
Banned
As linked by naji on another thread. CD is further behind than I thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVI2oaNq6E8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVI2oaNq6E8
^^^^^ this
Not everyone has read 19 pages of this thread and simply quote short snippets which they feel they can add to. If people go off of track and have missed the point of the original conversation then that is natural, however please don't take it too seriously it is just social banter after all
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Serious question to those going on about trolls - I haven't posted here too often in the past but have a renewed interest and have been quite active the last few days. There are a few crazy, daft, stupid whatever you want to call them posts on this thread showing an ignorance of the differences between pool and snooker. Most of the posts though are about Alex Pagulayan having a shot at snooker, the difference between the games and the players, and peoples (differing, as one would expect) opinions about the possibility for success (to varying degrees).
Why so much anger?
Why so much anger?
Back on topic - I hope
I think its awesome how much interest and opinions Alex taking a shot at pro snooker has garnered.
As long as we stick to topic it is all good.
I was with Alex P yesterday afternoon at a snooker tournament near Toronto. I told him a lot of what has been written on here and we really did have a good laugh about it. Especially the part about him locking horns with Ronnie. Worlds apart on a snooker table, period.
For those on this forum that know me primarily from doing pool commentary, I wanted to let everybody know that I actually played professional snooker for 17 years. And the majority of that time I was ranked in the top 50 in the world. I started doing tv commentary in professional snooker in 1990, it overlapped my playing career by about 7 years. So I had the best seat in the house and got to see all the great players of the 80's, 90's and well into the 2000's. I hope you can take my opinion as one who actually knows all these guys and played with and against many of them.
Doesn't make my opinion right by any means, but it should at the worst establish some credibility.
The game of snooker has improved by leaps and bounds as have the conditions they all play under today. It all makes for improvement in standard of play. Statistics don't lie but they can be jaded when the conditions are not equal. So all we can do is look at what the players of the past could and did do given the conditions they all played under. And we have to accept the fact that the top ones could have easily adapted to whatever conditions they were faced with.
Any great player of the 70’s through to the turn of the millennium would most definitely be competitive with today’s players. Maybe not the upper echelon of them but most certainly the mid range of ranked players and the majority of the 128 that are currently ranked. I had a quick look at the top 64 and a player the caliber of an Alex Higgins on song would own at least half of these guys. No disrespect intended, just my opinion based on what I know, what I have seen and of course some of the great players that I have had similar discussions with.
I can certainly tell that in reading almost all of the posts on this thread that a good deal of posters have a handle on this.
The only two that had me spurting out my coffee back on to the keyboard were the Alex Higgins couldn’t beat the top 1000 in today’s snooker and the Alex Pagulayan would beat O’Sullivan for the cash in a long snooker match. Hey, it’s my coffee and my keyboard but these two comments are too funny. But they are opinions and as we all know, everybody is entitled to theirs.
Have to say this too, kind of back on topic, Corey called me a couple days ago to ask me what I thought about his snooker endeavors. He said something to me that I passed on to Alex yesterday, (to which Alex reminded me what an intelligent guy Corey really is). I already knew that Alex didn’t have to remind me.
Corey said he wanted to go over and play snooker because he knew that in playing with all these top young players that he might pick up two or maybe three shots from the snooker world that he could apply on a pool table. That made the trip worthwhile in his mind. And folks, he most definitely will pick up two or three shots that he can use when he gets back to the pool table.
When you have an attitude like that you always leave yourself open to improve.
You just have to admire Corey’s philosophy behind this move.
And Alex, Corey and Chris Melling all have that intangible from the neck up – they know how to win and can handle the heat. All the talent that I saw over there in my 20+ years of professional snooker experience, that little intangible is what separated the men from the boys.
Whew long post!
Jim
I think its awesome how much interest and opinions Alex taking a shot at pro snooker has garnered.
As long as we stick to topic it is all good.
I was with Alex P yesterday afternoon at a snooker tournament near Toronto. I told him a lot of what has been written on here and we really did have a good laugh about it. Especially the part about him locking horns with Ronnie. Worlds apart on a snooker table, period.
For those on this forum that know me primarily from doing pool commentary, I wanted to let everybody know that I actually played professional snooker for 17 years. And the majority of that time I was ranked in the top 50 in the world. I started doing tv commentary in professional snooker in 1990, it overlapped my playing career by about 7 years. So I had the best seat in the house and got to see all the great players of the 80's, 90's and well into the 2000's. I hope you can take my opinion as one who actually knows all these guys and played with and against many of them.
Doesn't make my opinion right by any means, but it should at the worst establish some credibility.
The game of snooker has improved by leaps and bounds as have the conditions they all play under today. It all makes for improvement in standard of play. Statistics don't lie but they can be jaded when the conditions are not equal. So all we can do is look at what the players of the past could and did do given the conditions they all played under. And we have to accept the fact that the top ones could have easily adapted to whatever conditions they were faced with.
Any great player of the 70’s through to the turn of the millennium would most definitely be competitive with today’s players. Maybe not the upper echelon of them but most certainly the mid range of ranked players and the majority of the 128 that are currently ranked. I had a quick look at the top 64 and a player the caliber of an Alex Higgins on song would own at least half of these guys. No disrespect intended, just my opinion based on what I know, what I have seen and of course some of the great players that I have had similar discussions with.
I can certainly tell that in reading almost all of the posts on this thread that a good deal of posters have a handle on this.
The only two that had me spurting out my coffee back on to the keyboard were the Alex Higgins couldn’t beat the top 1000 in today’s snooker and the Alex Pagulayan would beat O’Sullivan for the cash in a long snooker match. Hey, it’s my coffee and my keyboard but these two comments are too funny. But they are opinions and as we all know, everybody is entitled to theirs.
Have to say this too, kind of back on topic, Corey called me a couple days ago to ask me what I thought about his snooker endeavors. He said something to me that I passed on to Alex yesterday, (to which Alex reminded me what an intelligent guy Corey really is). I already knew that Alex didn’t have to remind me.
Corey said he wanted to go over and play snooker because he knew that in playing with all these top young players that he might pick up two or maybe three shots from the snooker world that he could apply on a pool table. That made the trip worthwhile in his mind. And folks, he most definitely will pick up two or three shots that he can use when he gets back to the pool table.
When you have an attitude like that you always leave yourself open to improve.
You just have to admire Corey’s philosophy behind this move.
And Alex, Corey and Chris Melling all have that intangible from the neck up – they know how to win and can handle the heat. All the talent that I saw over there in my 20+ years of professional snooker experience, that little intangible is what separated the men from the boys.
Whew long post!
Jim
Jim, it's great to have someone with your level of talent and experience in the snooker world posting here. I recall watching a 9 ball game on television where Steve Davis was co-commentating and a snooker pro (can't recall which, maybe it was Jimmy White) was up against an established pool pro. Now, I'm just a league 8 ball player ho has played a bit of 9 ball and so on and don't rate myself as the greatest selector of shots by any stretch. But I know the basics. Steve was commenting on the snooker player's "wrong" shot selection (Steve Davis knows way more than the basics in 9 ball) that just happened to be working and getting him round the table in good enough shape (with maybe a little luck thrown in). That's just one case, but an analysis of snooker players' shot selection in pool, and vice versa, might lead to some tweaking of what is considered optimal. Anyway, I'm sure it's been done already by the thinking players (like Corey) and that they'll continue doing it. All the end to end ball sports - football, soccer, basketball, rugby etc steal each others coaching secrets. Why not cue sports? Open mindedness gotta be a good thing.
This thread "Was" interesting actually.
We had Jim Wych comment in it, we had a lot of valuable debate going with people who feel strongly that Alex can make it, and others that think it will be tough. No name calling was taking place, no off topic or personal fighting between people, lots of points and facts and information was offered and being bounced back and forth.
Then you came in and made a little quip and said the thread was stupid. And sure enough, right at that moment you caused it to be so... You could not just come in and stay on topic and become a part of the actual discussion? Talk about some pool player who played some snooker, mention Mike Sigel as a potential guy who might have picked up on the game faster then most pool players?
All you did was come in and post a pic of Alex, mention out of the blue that Keith beat a pro snooker player 30 years ago on a 10 foot in a game of 6-ball (which was not a bad addition to the thread up to that point), and then you ran out of things to say, did not like that everyone was not thinking Alex is going to completely dominate the snooker world, and therefore we needed to be told we are wasting our time and this thread is stupid?
Thanks Jam.
The trenches of the pool room bars of the US pool world percolate with froth of this nature. It's no different than a two year old carrying on a conversation with a PHD cept, they listen.
TheThaiger
Banned
You are a contemporary of Alex Higgins. Where do you think you would fit into the top 1000 players of today, assuming your standard of play now is the same as it was back then?
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I was a journeyman snooker pro and prided myself on being a tough opponent even on an off day.
But I couldn't chalk Alex Higgin's cue.
My game wouldn't have had a prayer against these guys today but Alex's game was different. He played an attacking style and had a great safety game to rely on anytime it was called on.
In my prime I would still have to think I could make into the top 1000 but they don't rank anywhere near that many Thaiger. And when you get outside the top 32 the standard dips noticeably just as it did in my day.
I think the main reason I took exception to your opinion (and that doesn't make you wrong) was that Higgins really could adapt to various conditions and could play an aggressive style of snooker, the same as you see today.
My best efforts were two quarter final appearances in the World Championships, and two quarter final appearances in two other ranking events, The European Open and the British Open. My partner and I made it to the world doubles final losing to Hendry and Hallet way back in 1991. Like I said, it was nothing special but I just tried to let my opponent know he was in for a struggle.
Glad you didn't take any offense to my exception to your opinion though Thaiger because there was none intended at all.
Cheers,
Jim
But I couldn't chalk Alex Higgin's cue.
My game wouldn't have had a prayer against these guys today but Alex's game was different. He played an attacking style and had a great safety game to rely on anytime it was called on.
In my prime I would still have to think I could make into the top 1000 but they don't rank anywhere near that many Thaiger. And when you get outside the top 32 the standard dips noticeably just as it did in my day.
I think the main reason I took exception to your opinion (and that doesn't make you wrong) was that Higgins really could adapt to various conditions and could play an aggressive style of snooker, the same as you see today.
My best efforts were two quarter final appearances in the World Championships, and two quarter final appearances in two other ranking events, The European Open and the British Open. My partner and I made it to the world doubles final losing to Hendry and Hallet way back in 1991. Like I said, it was nothing special but I just tried to let my opponent know he was in for a struggle.
Glad you didn't take any offense to my exception to your opinion though Thaiger because there was none intended at all.
Cheers,
Jim
You're right. My contributions to AzBilliards about Keith, my photos, and whatever I write about pool isn't interesting at all.
I'll pass the baton to you, et al., to keep this forum going. Thanks for the memories.
TheThaiger
Banned
"Then say that." See?
The issue today is that break-building, unlike in the past with the older conditions, is even more of a staple foundational skillset over the days of old. Reardon happened to be one of the few who put the "break-building" and "heavier nap cloth / non-phenolic balls" things together in two-and-two fashion. Today, if you don't have good break-building, you don't have the heavier nap cloth and non-phenolic balls to fall back on (i.e. leveraging it as an obstacle for your opponent), and thus, you don't stand a chance.
Unlike you where you feel you have to insult (I guarantee you have no idea how fast I read or type), I will further indulge the "let's see if I can explain things a little differently" way of doing things.
-Sean
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TheThaiger
Banned
Fair enough. My use of top 1000 players was clumsy. I should have said third or fourth tier professional instead. It would be relatively easy to identify the top 1000 football players playing today, but snooker is a different kettle of fish, given many extremely talented players don't quite make the grade and go on to do other things instead, like play pool for instance lol. There will never be a top 1000 whilst all the money is concentrated at the top.
That said, I'm sure there are many fantastic players in China, purely on the basis they have 30 million players.
All I meant to do was illustrate how difficult it is for someone to succeed who has not been disciplined in snooker from an early age. Alex H & Alex P are broadly comparable in this respect, as each has an emphasis on natural talent over years of structured training. Higgins' technique was poor, and that cost him, even during his prime. We will have to see what Alex P's technique is like, but he will have to learn quickly.
Who knows what Higgins would have achieved if he had benefited from what he helped create?
TheThaiger
Banned
Seriously, you cannot actually feel that playing the poor martyr in this is now the way to go.
In the very thread you quoted (and we all know you can read very well) I stated
Celtic said:
So that kind of negated your whole "woe is me" "bleeding heart" post about no one reading your contributions or seeing their value prior to your even writing it.
Stop with the forum equivalent of "ok I will go cry in the corner until someone comes up and tells me they love me" every time you might have a disagreement with people on this forum, it is childish and silly and you are better then that Jam. Me and you agree about a lot of things on this forum and I do respect your thoughts on most things on here, but at times you can go too far on threads like this when people are discussing Alex's actual realistic chances of making it in pro snooker.
Guess what, 99% of the people saying Alex cannot likely do it would LOVE to have Alex prove them wrong, myself included. Because we think he is going to have a tough time does not mean we do not like the guy or his game, he is one of my favorite players ever and I have NEVER routed against him and I am not in this endeavour either.
I can certainly testify to that.
I should've put a "[Note: Tim]" next to that one, because I *knew* you'd respond to that.