That's why I said "would be considered all pros." That's today's world. Sure, using your exact standards to determine who is a pro and who is not, no one has ever been a pro.
Alternate break is ruining pool
- Thread starter Hobo
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That's why I said "would be considered all pros." That's today's world. Sure, using your exact standards to determine who is a pro and who is not, no one has ever been a pro.
There you go, and that is how i feel for sure.
That's right on man!
I see your point, but the guy who won the game did nothing wrong to lose his turn at the table, he should have the advantage in the next game. For the record, I have no problem with winner breaks OR alternate breaks, I'm just playing a little Devil's advocate. Pool is fun wither way.
1p has ALWAYS been alt.brk. unless the break is part of the spot. The break in one-hole is BY FAR the most critical shot in a game. VERY little, if any, 1p would be played if it was winner brk. Ever played it???
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I've played it a lot. I love the game. The argument was used earlier that the breaker in rotation games hasn't done anything wrong, so why punish him by letting his opponent break. I'm just wondering why the same logic isn't used for one pocket. I mentioned that I was playing devil's advocate, I don't care how people choose to play any game.
Kinda obvious isn't it?? The break in rotation is NOWHERE near the game-changer as in 1p.
I actually disagree with that, to a point. Obviously the break is big in one pocket, don't the "experts" value it somewhere around a ball and a half? I think the break is huge in almost all games. It's different for every game, on every table. Any game on a bar table, the break is huge. If you don't think so, try spotting the break to any competent player on the bar table. Tough to outrun, right?
Let's say I play even with (insert any pro player here). I'd win more games giving him the breaks in one pocket than I would any bar table game. That's only my opinion, but it's about as close to a fact as you can get.
Unless you're an absolute MONSTER 1p player you might want to avoid trying it winner brk. As for the bar-box, i see dry breaks quite a bit. Personally, i'd rather take my chances playing wb on the bb as opposed to 1p. Should add that most guys i play 1p with break pretty sporty. If you're playing a newbie they don't know how to break and it can(and often does) hurt the. Have a good one. Hit em pure.....................
My problem with one pocket is not the breaks, it's the scoring of the game points, i don't agree witb it. One pocket to me should be based on a shot reward system. Balls made straight in the pocket, 1 point, banking is all banks +1 point, meaning a 1 rail bank equals 2 points, 4 rail bank equals 5 points. If a ball is sitting in the jaws of your pocket and you choose to shot it in, it's oy worth 1 point, BUT if you bank the cue ball 7 rails around the table and kick it in, that's worth 8 points, and contact with any rail leading into the object ball don't count, kicking or banking, meaning at the end of that 7 rail kick, if the cue ball comes of the side rail and kicks the ball in, that rail don't count. Then one pocket matches can be played to 50, 75, or 100 point games, which helps neutralize the power of the break, and gives a player a player a reason by reward to make harder shots to come from behind and steal a win when it's least expected. Matches played like this can fit in a 3 hour format time limit, because even if the match winning points haven't been reached, there's still a winner by points at the ding of the bell.
Accu-Stats does an interesting rule in their game show where the breaker has to push out as his first shot (and I think it's alternating break also), so every player has a chance at the rack to shoot. I am not sure how well I like that rule, but it does make for the most even and "fair" breaking situation. You can't shoot on your break, your opponent can't shoot on their break, you push if you are hooked or not.
I really don't think I would want to see this rule everywhere, but it is a big equalizer. Does not matter if you have a monster break, or get lucky and make 4 balls or sink nothing, your break does not matter aside from starting the game.
And yes, I know that the break is about as much of a skill shot as anything else, you can practice the break, you can practice racking well and reading the rack, so a player with a good break should be rewarded for having a good break. We don't try to take away the advantage a good banker has by making them bank 2 rails all the time do we? And yet.. I don't know LOL Every racking/breaking rule I see has some good and some bad in it.
I really don't think I would want to see this rule everywhere, but it is a big equalizer. Does not matter if you have a monster break, or get lucky and make 4 balls or sink nothing, your break does not matter aside from starting the game.
And yes, I know that the break is about as much of a skill shot as anything else, you can practice the break, you can practice racking well and reading the rack, so a player with a good break should be rewarded for having a good break. We don't try to take away the advantage a good banker has by making them bank 2 rails all the time do we? And yet.. I don't know LOL Every racking/breaking rule I see has some good and some bad in it.
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Just another way to play the game. Variety is the spice of life. Play it this way one time.... do it different the next time. I don't see why variety is such an issue. It eliminates stagnation. I would like to try Glens idea too. Just something to spice it up.
The issue is that no-one knows how to play pool anymore. Every tournament and pool hall has some rules they add. Bbreak from box here, break from side here, 9 on spot, 1 on spot, break soft OK here, not there, rack your own, opponent rack, ref rack, 9 on break counts here, not there, and not in some pockets here but OK there, winner break, alt break, loser break, template rack OK or no template rack. That is just for breaking, never mind keeping track about all the other rules and made up bar rules that change from place to place and league to league.
I enter a tournament or play against someone new and it takes a half hour to get through all the rules they use, instead of just flipping to the WPA web site and going, here are the rules.
Heck there was someone that asked how many cues you can have and if you can get a jump cue out in middle of a game in a cheap entry weekly tournament like it was the US Open LOL
I hear ya. When I decide to enter a local tournament, I ask for the rules in advance. I know what to expect before I even get there. And usually there is a players briefing before the start. I don't seem to have any problems in that regard. But there are those that don't want to stop practicing banging balls around long enough to listen. They have to be told over and over to stop. Then they get pissed because they were not told about something. We do have that problem. Like those few extra shots were going to make a difference in how they play.
I guess it matters most to me about how things go in my local tournaments more then it does in the pro's. They are light years away from me, and I'll never get there. So in that case, variety works for me and most in my skill level.
As for watching the pros, I prefer not to watch the same ol same ol. I still like the variety. I like how some of them adapt and some can't. Some show character, some dont.
I guess it matters most to me about how things go in my local tournaments more then it does in the pro's. They are light years away from me, and I'll never get there. So in that case, variety works for me and most in my skill level.
As for watching the pros, I prefer not to watch the same ol same ol. I still like the variety. I like how some of them adapt and some can't. Some show character, some dont.
I didn't read it all, but I like the valuation of different shots. That would really change the mid- end games.
I like your ideas about changing 1p. My brother and Ihave also talked about changes needed to various games. Some of these have been discussed before. 1p needs a shot clock and a more severe penalty for fouls. Something like 1f = 2 balls, 2f = 5 balls, and 3f = loss of game. The current penalty of 1f = 1b is pretty much a joke to strong players. A player makes a great defensive play and the incoming player takes an intentional foul.
9ball plays winner break. The balls are racked with 9b in the center, but the rest wherever including the 1b. No pattern racking, balls are touched only from the back and left alone when rack is lifted, and breaker must have 3 balls up table from side pockets. Failure to do so gives incoming player option to accept table or give it back to opponent.
I play most games, but snooker is favorite. Break is pretty neutral. I prefer American snooker on a 10 ft as compared to 12 ft table. (Too many bridge shots) I'm getting too old as well.
9ball plays winner break. The balls are racked with 9b in the center, but the rest wherever including the 1b. No pattern racking, balls are touched only from the back and left alone when rack is lifted, and breaker must have 3 balls up table from side pockets. Failure to do so gives incoming player option to accept table or give it back to opponent.
I play most games, but snooker is favorite. Break is pretty neutral. I prefer American snooker on a 10 ft as compared to 12 ft table. (Too many bridge shots) I'm getting too old as well.
What is the purpose of making balls past the side pockets to be considered a legal break? What is the purpose of racking the 9 on the foot spot? As far as a shot clock in one pocket, never happen, but a match time limit would end all one pocket matches at the same time, and 3 hrs is long enough to decide a winner. The point penalties you described would do nothing more than extend a game into the Twilight Zone as far as how long it would take to play a game.
And please explain your reason for racking the balls as you sugested.
I see one problem with the 3 hour time limit. If a player gains a lead, he could start playing the clock. Like clock management in the NFL. Just to keep his oppenent on the chair. And pool players will use it together advantage. If there is a 30 second time limit, the player that is ahead WILL take the full 30 seconds to make even the simplest of shots.
There will always be someone looking for an angle.
There will always be someone looking for an angle.
30 second shot clock is perfect. it would speed up guys like klenti and archer to play at a more quicker pace.