am i being a dousche

[alstl]

I care about respecxt and value every single posters oppinion. So let me have it

My opinion is you are probably a better captain than the other guy and the fact that you are posting here means you probably are more intense about the league.

A lot of people who play in leagues are just there to shoot pool and have fun, and maybe the bad weather prevented some of his players from showing up.

I won't pass judgment on you because I wasn't there and don't know what the behavior of the other captain was, but those are things I would consider before making his team forfeit.

For some people leagues are an escape from everyday life, for others leagues are their life.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Because this isn't a pro sports team. Its a bunch of guys getting together to compete and have a good time. Perhaps it would have been better handled if either captain checked with the other, but neither did, so why does one have to rely on winning by default. Winning on the merits is much more credible.

Perhaps it is taken too seriously?

The position you show here is not entirely uncommon. It helps to try and recognize the issues at hand. This is not targeted entirely at you, but I think in general people really should try to distinguish between "pool league" being taken too seriously and "personal responsibility" being taken too seriously.

Whether we are talking about showing up on time for a pool league match, a court date, a casual and tentative arrangement, or any other kind of organized social interaction, the bottom line is this: if you make a plan with another person, you should follow through with the plan. If you can't, it is your responsibility to inform the other person that you have an issue, and attempt to make other arrangements.

If you are getting stuck on the nature of the meeting (an amateur pool league match), and your personal evaluation of the importance of that event, then you are really missing the important principle here. *It doesn't matter what the event is*. What is important and to be taken seriously is the commitment you have made to participate in an activity with other people. Their time is no less important than yours. If you say you will be somewhere, you should be there. If you can't make it, tell them in advance. Of course unforeseen things can come up at the last minute, and any reasonable person can accept that. But that isn't what happened here. You should respect your fellow person and their time by taking your commitments *seriously*.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I agree to disagree with you. Good luck on your league night. Play hard!!

Well when you explain it like that...????????

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I play a town away in Brockton and the entire league stayed home last night. It wasn't safe everywhere. You're making assumptions by saying they are lazy.

Kerry, you do make some good points but, this is league pool and stuff does happen. It's happened to me before too. I just rescheduled and we played a double-header on a different night. If people don't feel safe I am not going to bash their heads in because I chose to get in my car and drive.
I practiced for a couple of hours and called it a night.
But hey, that's just me.

I couldn't agree more. Personally I have no issue if people stay home when it snows. I believe that when deciding whether or not to brave a storm to get to league night, that not too much importance should be given to the event, since it can always be done later. But *whether or not* they stay home isn't the issue here. The issue is that if in fact the other team will not be coming, to what extent are they responsible for contacting their opponents in advance and letting them know. The whole point is that it is up to the two teams whether or not they play. If one team thinks it's too dangerous to go out, then they must assume it is dangerous for the other team too, no? Wouldn't the right thing to do be to tell the other team you're not coming, so that they don't have to undertake that risk for nothing? This is one of those "its not *what* you do but *how you do it*" kind of things. Personally, I would know by 5pm if my team was not planning to play. Nothing is going to change in those next couple of hours...to me that is just responsible captaining. Definitely not for everyone, I know. I would feel very bad if I just didn't bother to find out anyone's situation, showed up at the match, dragged the other team out, and THEN had to cancel. Seems very pointless to me.

Again, it makes no difference if we are talking about league pool, a casual meeting, or the Olympic Games...thats all beside the point. Not showing up is totally fine, just be an adult about it and cancel in advance. Is that too much to ask?

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

What is your leagues' rules on forfeitures, doubling up, and re-scheduling matches?

Please correct me if I get the situation wrong.

As team captain, one of your responsibilities is to get enough people to play the matches. Its not your responsibility to follow-up on the other team members to show up on a scheduled match time. As courtesy, the other team captain could've told you before the start of the match. It doens't sound like he extended that courtesy, and then tried to shift his failure to you.

After 75 minutes past the the scheduled match time of 7 PM, the other captain asked to re-schedule. As captain its you're duty to evaluate the offer, review against the league rules and protect your team's interest. In my league, forfeiture is the penalty for being 20 minutes late past the scheduled match. If my league if people show up, then you're required to play, otherwise its a match forfeiture.

When he didn't get his way, he chose not to play the 3 matches and left? If there are no league penalties, then it was a smart decision on his part. Otherwise, its another bad decision and he was being the douche by misplacing guilt and blame on you. That's bad sportsmanship in my book.

Well put...I think you struck the heart of the issue here.

 

[ridinda9]

oh , yes , you are . . .to them and to us . . .

not only are you being a douche to the other team , you are being a douche to us by withholding the local bylaw until post #42 .:frown:
Any post before that that holds that you 'simply want to abide by the rules' could not have taken that into account .
In the first two weeks of session , (not even taking into account the storm issues) many teams have not even finalized their rosters . I'm sure your local LO and/or Board of Governors thought long and hard about that bylaw , and decided that in the interest of fair play ,matches from the 1st & 2nd week must be rescheduled instead of forfeited .
I find it VERY enlightening that Brockton , 1 town over , found it necessary to reschedule ALL matches from that night . Maybe the driving conditions weren't as safe in everyone else's opinion .
Finally , as Dr9ball paraphrased , a longtime league motto has been "win at the table , not from the chair" . It is better to win only 2 in a 'real' match than to take 5 in a 'forced' forfeit . . . . .

Man up , FastEddie427 , and schedule a rematch in the near future .



as an aside , could it be that your lack of understanding in matters such as this is part of the reason that all of the former BALL BUSTAHS "betrayed" you and left to form their own team ??

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Some ppl are so die hard league that they will take wins any way they can get them. No way to tell that's the case here, but I've played with teams who would take a forfeit to split that $400 at the end of league 6 ways.

I didn't really see the whole points issue as a part of this. Perhaps the OP can comment on that. To me this was only about consideration. It sounded like the OP felt the opposing team captain was being very inconsiderate by not simply cancelling the match and calling ahead. He basically made the OP's team show up for nothing. I didn't take it that there was anything more to it than that, but of course I might be making an incorrect assumption there.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

To add one last thing, the NFL post was pretty bad as those guys do it for the money and love the game also, but the money is so much more, and they have close to 60 player rosters so it ain't going to happen short of a blizzard where a team can't come, and those ppl have 60k other depending on them for tickets. You and your team Fast Eddie have a bar who is depending on you for ice waters all night and free peanuts. Well maybe not that, but the team which took a forfeit in our league drank ice water and whatever was free as opposed to patronizing the bar and helping them stay open.

wow...talk about losing track of this thread...where are you going man?

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I don't think the OP really wants anyone's opinion unless it goes along with what he believes, that's what I'm getting here so I don't have too much to say..

I will say one thing, if the weather was bad, I'd certainly overlook the other team not getting to the match this time and just reschedule.. I like to use common sense, not everyone lives by it.. Rules don't apply to every situation and league pool just is not that important! YMMV

Since you asked, and you did ask... Yes, you are being a douche.

Mojoe,

Since league pool isn't that important...let me ask you a question. If you knew you were not going to make it to a match, would you let anyone know? Would you tell anyone on your team? If you were the captain and you knew your entire team wasn't going to show, would you call the other team captain? Or are those types of things unimportant to you, and its ok to just blow them off and who cares how it affects other people? Just wondering...common sense is surprisingly uncommon, especially among its biggest advocates.

So in your common sense approach, could you put in one sentence why the OP is a douche? (Hint...try to involve the part about the other captain not bothering to try rescheduling before match time).

I will be quite impressed if you offer a reply to this...something tells me you're not that kind of person. Could be a wrong assumption though.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Yeah, you're definitely being a douche. Weather is out of his and his team's control. Is there some other reason you can't make it up later that you're not telling us?

Be flexible. Pool is supposed to be about fun.

....or did you just want everyone to agree with you? If so f that other guy and grab the forfeits!!!

Again, weather destroyed the guys phone? I personally hate the idea of winning by forfeit. If I were in the shoes of the OP, I would have suggested starting the match, and making up whatever games they didn't have players for. I did this before, and it worked fine.

I still don't get why people are overlooking the responsibility that the opposing captain had to make arrangements beforehand. I figured that was all part of the whole adult and respect thing. Perhaps that is all a fantasy of the way I wish the world was...not the way it really is.

KMRUNOUT

 

[ridinda9]

If a pro sports team dosent have enough players. They tale their lumps and forfiet. Why is this different. Milliuonth time saying. If a phone call had been made prior to starting. Fine. Over an hour after start time shut up n shoot

Hmmm , good analogy . . . . except . . . . when was the last pro forfeit that you can remember ? Seriously , in your lifetime , not a Googled reference from 1956 ?
Conversely , when was the last MLB game you can remember being rained out ? How about a NASCAR or SCCA race ? Doesn't matter that the fans are already in the stands , if the weather is wrong , they don't play .
The NFL will play in snow , but not in BLIZZARDS . . . . .

"milliuonth" time saying ? Hey , that was only post #18 . . . . and you hadn't even bothered to tell us THE RULE yet . . . .

 

[rossaroni]

I am wondering if the FASTEDDIE427 and KMRUNOUT are on the same league team.

 

[FASTEDDIE427]

I am wondering if the FASTEDDIE427 and KMRUNOUT are on the same league team.

Different teams

www.baystateapa.com

On left side click documents and forms. The click local bylaws. Read them for yourself

Kmrunout did his reasearch. We play apa in the same state but different L O

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I am wondering if the FASTEDDIE427 and KMRUNOUT are on the same league team.

Haha...that's a reasonable assumption given my many posts here. Actually, I don't think I have ever met the OP. I am definitely not on his team. This thread just struck a chord with me...it has always bothered me when people don't act like adults, blow off their simple responsibilities to each other, and then confuse the issue by saying "well its just a pool league...not that important". Sure, the league isn't that important at all. But respecting each other is. In ALL areas of life, if I say I'll be there, I think its important to be there. If I can't make it, I think its important to let you know before whatever we planned is to start. I guess those types of courtesies simply stop being important to people when they join a pool league or something...

FASTEDDIE427, I would make up the match personally. However I think the other captain needs to learn how to be an adult. Maybe you can show him, maybe its too late for that. Good luck with the situation though.

KMRUNOUT

 

[ridinda9]

I personally hate the idea of winning by forfeit.

KMRUNOUT

then stop trying to defend the OP's position . The OP's position became indefensible after post #42 , when he (finally) revealed that his local bylaws DO NOT ALLOW receiving forfeits in the 1st two weeks of session . Now it is on the OP to be the one who "abides by the rules" .

Oh , and I don't know how they do it in Mass , but in our region , the LO doesn't distribute a list with the opposing captains phone #'s until around the 4th week of session . . . .makes it hard to call when you don't have the # , or maybe even know who the team captain IS . . . .
If I read this correctly , I 'believe' (may be wrong) this was a 'home' match for the OP . That would mean that the home team had the play sheets , with the rosters . Without that roster , how would he know who the captain of the opposing team was , let alone how to contact him prior to match time ?
We know from another thread that FastEddie427 just had to rebuild his team from scratch , perhaps there is even some confusion on the opponents part over which team is his . . . .
You KNOW we're only hearing one side of this story . . . . .

 

[rossaroni]

Haha...that's a reasonable assumption given my many posts here. Actually, I don't think I have ever met the OP. I am definitely not on his team. This thread just struck a chord with me...it has always bothered me when people don't act like adults, blow off their simple responsibilities to each other, and then confuse the issue by saying "well its just a pool league...not that important". Sure, the league isn't that important at all. But respecting each other is. In ALL areas of life, if I say I'll be there, I think its important to be there. If I can't make it, I think its important to let you know before whatever we planned is to start. I guess those types of courtesies simply stop being important to people when they join a pool league or something...

FASTEDDIE427, I would make up the match personally. However I think the other captain needs to learn how to be an adult. Maybe you can show him, maybe its too late for that. Good luck with the situation though.

KMRUNOUT

Thanks!

You are not on the other team in question are you? JK!

 

[itsfroze]

My opinion your opinion who cares ?

The rules are the only opinion that matters. When you sign up and join a league, you are not only signing up to play but also agreeing to abide by what ever set of rules govern that indivdual league or association. Whats wrong with leagues is that everyone wants things to be their way and they are fine with the rules as long as they are working in their favor however as soon as the rules are not working in their favor they want to bend and manipulate them in their favor. If this is allowed as it is in many leagues where the squeekyest wheel gets the grease it's bad for the league in the long run. What I think,you think,she said,he said,why don't we try, lets do it this, all doesn't matter except for convorsational sake if that. For we could debate our opinions until the cows come home my opinion and your opinion just arn't important the only opinion that counts is of the person or persons who wrote the rules in the first place. The rules are thought up ,then printed up, and then made sure to be distributed to every person in the league remember the league you joined where you agreed to abide by the rules of said league. Leagues would work much better and players would start to show up on time more often if the rules were followed because they would know that there were consiquenes if they didn't. Team captains also would make it their bussiness to have all the other team captains #'s and take responsibility in an adult fashion to call in a timely manner not only because they would forfeit but maybe theyed even realize thats it's incosiderate to the other team not to (maybe thats streaching it) The RULES are the RULES for a reason !!!!

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Different teams

www.baystateapa.com

On left side click documents and forms. The click local bylaws. Read them for yourself

Kmrunout did his reasearch. We play apa in the same state but different L O

Actually FASTEDDIE427, I didn't really know about your bylaws with respect to this issue. I know we talked before about equipment by laws...

Like I said, it just really bugs me when people use excuses to blow off their basic responsibilities to other people. All it would have taken is a phone call, and the whole thing could have been avoided. FYI, I got a call from my league operator on Wednesday afternoon around 4 saying that all matches in our area were cancelled. I am a division rep, and one of only a couple of contact people on our newsletter. He wanted me to be aware in case a got any calls. He also posted it on our Facebook page, if you can believe it. Our guy is pretty good...

I think in the same situation in the future, I would maybe call the other team before 6 and ask if they are coming. At start time, I would tell them that we either need to start the match now, play as many as we can, and work out the rest, or else reschedule. That way no one's time gets wasted. This might be *better* for you. Still, the other captain has a long way to go in learning how to be respectful to people.

Hope it helps,

KMRUNOUT

 

[ridinda9]

just did . again YOU ARE LATE with the info !

Different teams

www.baystateapa.com

On left side click documents and forms. The click local bylaws. Read them for yourself

Kmrunout did his reasearch. We play apa in the same state but different L O

Forfeits during the 1st two weeks of any session will not be awarded; Make-up matches will be required for those weeks that were missed .

That settles it , it's black letter law . You don't have a leg to stand on , or a valid argument to make .
Too bad you didn't start by letting us have ALL the details !:frown:

 

[FASTEDDIE427]

First off. He could have forfited the 5th match and played the first 4. Second. Both captains are mailed the rosters and scoresheets every week. If he didn't have my number ( he does ) our division division reps number is clearly printed on every scoresheet every week. No excuses for the lack of comunication here.


BTW. They were the home team

then stop trying to defend the OP's position . The OP's position became indefensible after post #42 , when he (finally) revealed that his local bylaws DO NOT ALLOW receiving forfeits in the 1st two weeks of session . Now it is on the OP to be the one who "abides by the rules" .

Oh , and I don't know how they do it in Mass , but in our region , the LO doesn't distribute a list with the opposing captains phone #'s until around the 4th week of session . . . .makes it hard to call when you don't have the # , or maybe even know who the team captain IS . . . .
If I read this correctly , I 'believe' (may be wrong) this was a 'home' match for the OP . That would mean that the home team had the play sheets , with the rosters . Without that roster , how would he know who the captain of the opposing team was , let alone how to contact him prior to match time ?
We know from another thread that FastEddie427 just had to rebuild his team from scratch , perhaps there is even some confusion on the opponents part over which team is his . . . .
You KNOW we're only hearing one side of this story . . . . .