Amateur or Pro has nothing to do with ability

[Johnnyt]

This all goes back to theirs no money in pool for the pro. #1 no one wants to watch them play unless your a hardcore fan. #2 if no fans watch=no sponsers=no money. #3 this is not something that just happened.

For anyone with a half a brain that is thinking or making a living playing pool on tour. All they have to do is check a few things out. Make a list of all the tournaments they can go to in a three month period in their area. See what the top 5 finishers in each take home. Figure how much it will cost you to go to each one of these tournaments. Basic math tells you it's a big negitive for all but a VERY few.

My advice #1 go back to school and get a job. #2 forget most tournaments. #3 if you are a B+ or higher player gamble only. Save up a stake. Don't use a stake horse. Learn how to match up. Learn money management. I'm not saying rob, but many give too high of a spot just to get in action. You can grind out more of a living doing this than most can at tournaments.

I know most don't want to hear this part but it takes a lot of pressure off you if you have a part-time job. When you know the rents paid and you have food in the fridge it's easier to wait for the right match-up. Johnnyt

 

[Stones]

So you are saying that I should get into my car and drive anywhere from 50 to 200 miles round trip, pay my $50 entry and $20-$30 tour card, play my ass off against 30 or so people and get a trophy??? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! And before you ask, yes I do play in open events and will continue to do so...so Im not being hypocritical here.

Southpaw

Sounds like something got lost in the translation of my post.I guess you missed one of the major points of my thread which was why call it an "amateur" tourney.

Wikipedia defines an amateur as "An amateur is generally considered a person attached to a particular pursuit, study, or science, without formal training or pay.

If you get paid, you're not an amateur.

Oh, and by the way, back in my archery days, I flew from across country many times to shoot in the regionals and nationals for just a trophy.

Aw, the good ol' days! LOL

Stones

 

[Southpaw]

Sounds like something got lost in the translation of my post.I guess you missed one of the major points of my thread which was why call it an "amateur" tourney.

Wikipedia defines an amateur as "An amateur is generally considered a person attached to a particular pursuit, study, or science, without formal training or pay.

If you get paid, you're not an amateur.

Oh, and by the way, back in my archery days, I flew from across country many times to shoot in the regionals and nationals for just a trophy.

Aw, the good ol' days! LOL

Stones

Yeah lets do away with the APA too...those "amateurs" have no business paying weekly dues and annual dues to compete for a chance to go to Vegas and win $250,000......

Southpaw

 

[mullyman]

LOL...just gotta twist that 40th BD knife huh?

That 40 year old body decline is hitting me after just one day..... I woke up and looked in the mirror and noticed that last night all my hair fell out.....

But hey...at least all the important body functions still work...

For now.
MULLY
:grin:

 

[halhoule]

Pool

Some people on this website have still got no understanding of this. AMATEUR OR PRO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SPEED AT WHICH SOMEONE PLAYS!(contrary to what tour directors will have you believe) It is simply a classification. That is why the Amateur tours are bullshit. Two examples.......... Bobby jones (many people consider the greatest golfer of all time) won all his pro events as an AMATEUR! 2nd exp. All olympic athletes are amateurs and yet they set world records all the time. Meaning they are the best in the world at that event and yet they are amateur. That's why its bullshit to say your too good to play in this amateur event. (because in other sports the amateurs are some of the best in the world). I welcome all responses.

HOW WOULD YOU FARE
AGAINST RALF SOUQUET, EFREN REYES, AND SO ON.

HAL HOULE

 

[mullyman]

Sounds like something got lost in the translation of my post.I guess you missed one of the major points of my thread which was why call it an "amateur" tourney.

Wikipedia defines an amateur as "An amateur is generally considered a person attached to a particular pursuit, study, or science, without formal training or pay.

If you get paid, you're not an amateur.

Oh, and by the way, back in my archery days, I flew from across country many times to shoot in the regionals and nationals for just a trophy.

Aw, the good ol' days! LOL

Stones

Fair enough on the description of an amateur but look at it like this, if being paid is what separates pros from amateurs then we're all pros. I've won money in tournaments, can I call myself a pro? If the payout of a tournament doesn't qualify as pay then the pros should be considered amateurs because they don't have a salary. Sponsors don't count because the players are being paid to whore their goods, not to play pool. Although the 2 go hand in hand.
MULLY

 

[kevin s]

So you are saying that I should get into my car and drive anywhere from 50 to 200 miles round trip, pay my $50 entry and $20-$30 tour card, play my ass off against 30 or so people and get a trophy??? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard! And before you ask, yes I do play in open events and will continue to do so...so Im not being hypocritical here.

Southpaw

I agree with you southpaw. Pool is a hobby for most of us amateurs. I feel like there should be some money involved. I know its going to be difficult for the tournament directors. I hope they can keep the level of competition down to a reasonable level. I know people say practice more get better but most of us have jobs and families and cant practice and play that much. The amateur tours are good for the local pool scene. Especially for those of us that enjoy pool as a hobby.

We had a local weekly tournament that drew around 16 to 24 players. A couple of the best players started robbing the tournament. They were several balls better. Well now there is no weekly tournament. The same would happen with the numbers on the amateur tours if they didn't guard it carefully.

Kevin
< hopes to be ineligible on the amateur tour someday> :grin:

 

[mullyman]

I agree with you southpaw. Pool is a hobby for most of us amateurs. I feel like there should be some money involved. I know its going to be difficult for the tournament directors. I hope they can keep the level of competition down to a reasonable level. I know people say practice more get better but most of us have jobs and families and cant practice and play that much. The amateur tours are good for the local pool scene. Especially for those of us that enjoy pool as a hobby.

We had a local weekly tournament that drew around 16 to 24 players. A couple of the best players started robbing the tournament. They were several balls better. Well now there is no weekly tournament. The same would happen with the numbers on the amateur tours if they didn't guard it carefully.

Kevin
< hopes to be ineligible on the amateur tour someday> :grin:

I understand what you're saying, Kevin, but I have to say that better players make a better, more exciting tournament. I surely wouldn't want to join a tournament with everyone at about the same level as me. I want the higher level players and the pros in there, even if it means that I'm paying my entry to go home empty handed. People go on and on about gambling making you a better player but in my personal opinion having people much better than I am in a tournament pushes me to work harder so I can beat them.
MULLY

 

[B_White]

My point is being missed in all this. If amateur tourney's continue it WILL , not maybe, but Will eventually make open events become extinct. 2 years ago the average player participation in an open event in the southeast was about 45 players. In the last 6 months the average is probably 25. Almost 50% decline since amateur events got popular. I'm not the only one affected. It will affect all open event players eventually. Look at it this way, we already have a small crop of people as it is and its becoming thinner as we break into different classifications. Only one way to solve it. Every tourney in the U.S. be open to EVERY U.S. player. And just in case you think i'm afraid to play against good players let me assure you, when i was coming up there were no amateur events around. Believe me, i've paid my dues! I went years and years never cashing. Now candy asses get everything handed to them. " oh mister tournament director, i can't beat that guy please ban him from playing." Maybe the PGA players should wine enough to get tiger banned from the PGA because they have trouble beating him. I would be embarrassed to hold a pool cue if I ever uttered the words "hes too good don't let him play"..........Let me add one more thing please. It's not pool that i love, it's the competition. Less tourneys = less opportunity to compete. I would love to travel and play in every pro event but simply cannot afford to do so.

 

[muttley76]

Southpaw makes a very valid point-The line between any pro/amateur status is so blurred that no definition I know of fits the current system. And by system I mean all of them. Unless the BCA steps in to make a ruling that has to stick for everybody, I don't see how anything will not have to be completely subjective for each individual circumstance.

 

[mullyman]

I would be embarrassed to hold a pool cue if I ever uttered the words "hes too good don't let him play".

I will agree with you 1 billion percent on this one.
MULLY

 

[tigerseye]

Some people on this website have still got no understanding of this. AMATEUR OR PRO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SPEED AT WHICH SOMEONE PLAYS!(contrary to what tour directors will have you believe) It is simply a classification. That is why the Amateur tours are bullshit. Two examples.......... Bobby jones (many people consider the greatest golfer of all time) won all his pro events as an AMATEUR! 2nd exp. All olympic athletes are amateurs and yet they set world records all the time. Meaning they are the best in the world at that event and yet they are amateur. That's why its bullshit to say your too good to play in this amateur event. (because in other sports the amateurs are some of the best in the world). I welcome all responses.

By the rules of golf, if anyone accepts cash, as part of a winning prize, he or she is considered professional. So does anyone think that this is the way pool rules should be too?

 

[muttley76]

No, but anyone who plays in ANY organized event that pays money, should be classified, such as baseball

 

[BRKNRUN]

My point is being missed in all this. If amateur tourney's continue it WILL , not maybe, but Will eventually make open events become extinct. 2 years ago the average player participation in an open event in the southeast was about 45 players. In the last 6 months the average is probably 25. Almost 50% decline since amateur events got popular. I'm not the only one affected. It will affect all open event players eventually. Look at it this way, we already have a small crop of people as it is and its becoming thinner as we break into different classifications. Only one way to solve it. Every tourney in the U.S. be open to EVERY U.S. player. And just in case you think i'm afraid to play against good players let me assure you, when i was coming up there were no amateur events around. Believe me, i've paid my dues! I went years and years never cashing. Now candy asses get everything handed to them. " oh mister tournament director, i can't beat that guy please ban him from playing." Maybe the PGA players should wine enough to get tiger banned from the PGA because they have trouble beating him. I would be embarrassed to hold a pool cue if I ever uttered the words "hes too good don't let him play".

Now your singing my tune!!!! (but don't let Coco Boy see this)


BTW - I really think ameature vs Pro should be re-defined for all sports.

It should be that you are PRO if your Priamary Revenue Objective is from that sport...If it is not your primairy source of income you are an ameature.

However...Since there is not much money in Pool...I doubt there will be very many PROs

 

[mullyman]

By the rules of golf, if anyone accepts cash, as part of a winning prize, he or she is considered professional. So does anyone think that this is the way pool rules should be too?

Cool, I'm a pro.
MULLY

 

[kevin s]

I understand what you're saying, Kevin, but I have to say that better players make a better, more exciting tournament. I surely wouldn't want to join a tournament with everyone at about the same level as me. I want the higher level players and the pros in there, even if it means that I'm paying my entry to go home empty handed. People go on and on about gambling making you a better player but in my personal opinion having people much better than I am in a tournament pushes me to work harder so I can beat them.
MULLY

I attend and participate in open tournaments as well . It is nice to feel like you have a chance to win too. I have no chance to win an open event but if i play well i might cash. I have more fun playing amateur events because I know I have a shot to win. I have been to a lot of tournaments in the last year. Derby City , U.S open , Music City Open , 3 Florida pro events, 3 GSBT , and 3 Viking events. I don't mind donating my entry fee and participating. But for me I like the amateur events the best and hope to see more of them!

 

[kevin s]

My point is being missed in all this. If amateur tourney's continue it WILL , not maybe, but Will eventually make open events become extinct. 2 years ago the average player participation in an open event in the southeast was about 45 players. In the last 6 months the average is probably 25. Almost 50% decline since amateur events got popular. I'm not the only one affected. It will affect all open event players eventually. Look at it this way, we already have a small crop of people as it is and its becoming thinner as we break into different classifications. Only one way to solve it. Every tourney in the U.S. be open to EVERY U.S. player. And just in case you think i'm afraid to play against good players let me assure you, when i was coming up there were no amateur events around. Believe me, i've paid my dues! I went years and years never cashing. Now candy asses get everything handed to them. " oh mister tournament director, i can't beat that guy please ban him from playing." Maybe the PGA players should wine enough to get tiger banned from the PGA because they have trouble beating him. I would be embarrassed to hold a pool cue if I ever uttered the words "hes too good don't let him play"..........Let me add one more thing please. It's not pool that i love, it's the competition. Less tourneys = less opportunity to compete. I would love to travel and play in every pro event but simply cannot afford to do so.

Do you think Larry Nevel winning almost every event has anything to do with that? FTR I assume you must work cause I have't seen your name listed on many of the GSBT,Viking, or Southest tournaments.

Have you heard about the new pro tour Mark Griffin from BCAPL and Diamond Tables are putting together?

 

[pooltchr]

From a different point of view, there are a lot more C and D players in the world than there are A and B players. What's wrong with allowing the C and D players to have their own level of competition? Some of them are going to move up to a higher level over time, and then they should move on to the higher level tournaments. I think MJ has come up with a good plan that gives anyone the opportunity to play in the open events, while keeping the "amateur" level tournaments for just the C and D type players. The cream will always rise to the top. If you have reached the higher level, that is good. Then you compete at that level. B White said he likes the competition. How much "competition" is there for an A or B player in a C and D tournament?
Just a different way of looking at things.
Steve

 

[Derek]

Bobby Jones isn't a good example. Golf is much more organized now then it was back in Bobby's era. Now, the PGA is truly a pro league and the amateur leagues are truly amateur. I would gladly take the top 10 PGA players and play their speed against any collective body of amateurs. The difference is night and day.

 

[Russ Chewning]

Bobby Jones isn't a good example. Golf is much more organized now then it was back in Bobby's era. Now, the PGA is truly a pro league and the amateur leagues are truly amateur. I would gladly take the top 10 PGA players and play their speed against any collective body of amateurs. The difference is night and day.

And add to that, there are now amateur golf events that pay money just like in pool. Who ever said there isn't is full of sh*t.

This is just sour grapes about a really good player being asked to step it up to the next level.

Russ