Vette was right............. You don't know much...........This isnt new, ive NEVER been allowed to play in an amateur event. And as for your odvious lack of knowledge, I do quite well in open events when i'm around to play in them.Russ Chewning said:No worries, simply two differing viewpoints. I am just saying there are plenty of Open tourneys, regardless of whether their fields are smaller. If some of these guys have been told to step up to the next level, and that next level has smaller fields, then it ought to be easier to cash.
But these guys aren't cashing all that much at the next level.
To tell the God's honest truth here, I think that Brian was just comfortable beating on the lesser players, and doesn't like having to compete against the pros. I think that all this talk about the smaller fields is just sour grapes that he is no longer allowed to compete where he feels comfortable.
I used to travel all over the state of Washington to find the toughest weekly and weekend tournaments could find.
If Brian is truly in it for the competition, then there are plenty of tournaments out there for him, shorter fields or not. If he just wants the competition, he'll travel to find the best players he can to compete against.
Someone else mentioned they haven't seen Brian at the local tournaments he could have competed in. It seems to me he doesn't like being dead money any more than the amateurs he used to beat up on.
Russ
Amateur or Pro has nothing to do with ability
- Thread starter B_White
- Start date
Russ Chewning said:
......you should quit while you are way behind............
..............
I understand what Brian is trying to say AND I dont really think its solely the Am events killing the Opens.
Brian has been around long enough to have seen a decrease almost every year.
If I go back about 10-15 years there were more people playing tournaments and more Open events. you could go to several Open events around the south pretty reasonable.
Now today even the Rooms wont have events. Prices are very high to travel to other Open events when they do have them.
I don't think that its the weaker players responsibility to fund an Open event.
Honestly if the Am events go for a few years and are spreading then wont a new grouping of Banned players have to step up and play more Open events. At that time I would see a greater need for Open events.
Brian has been around long enough to have seen a decrease almost every year.
If I go back about 10-15 years there were more people playing tournaments and more Open events. you could go to several Open events around the south pretty reasonable.
Now today even the Rooms wont have events. Prices are very high to travel to other Open events when they do have them.
I don't think that its the weaker players responsibility to fund an Open event.
Honestly if the Am events go for a few years and are spreading then wont a new grouping of Banned players have to step up and play more Open events. At that time I would see a greater need for Open events.
B_White said:
I can not discount these words from Brian White. He has a valid point on this subject.
On 12-04-2005 I wrote this:
MikeJanis said:
And on 12-04-2005
MikeJanis said:
And on 12-5-2005 Re: HCP / Amateur events I wrote This:
MikeJanis said:
The entire thread about the subject can be found here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=22173&highlight=handicapped
Unfortunately, around that time others started doing Amateur and or HCP'ed events here in the South. And based on the economics of the situation the Viking Tour had to start the Amateur division in the South. Now it seems that everyone is doing them and it is definately driving the #'rs down for the open divisions.
However, as Brian stated, the Open Divisions were only getting about 45 players per event back then. Fortunately the Viking Tour was getting in the 50's but that still was not good enough compared to the 80 and 90 players we used to get in the 90's per event.
Now with the advent of of our combined events we are getting the 80 and 90 players each weekend again and this is helping to keep the room owners happy so they are still willing to host events. It's a trap that can not be overcome and must happen to keep pool alive.
The Viking Open only sustain because we are able to add some of the money made off the Amateur division to the Open events. If we didn't do this the Open events would have less money added to them or not exist at all.
Basically, what I am saying is that right now given the current economic weakness with the economy and the lack of BIG money added to Open and/or Pro events we NEED the Amateur events to maintain the current outlook for our sport.
The good news is that the Amateur divisions are attracting new participants in our sport to the tournament end and keeping others around while we get through the tough times.
In the future as the Amateur tour portion of the Industry becomes saturated the end result will be to have LARGER Open events with more money added to attract the players that the Amateur tours created and thus the circle continues.
Mj
B_White said:
I can not discount these words from Brian White. He has a valid point on this subject.
On 12-04-2005 I wrote this:
MikeJanis said:
And on 12-04-2005
MikeJanis said:
And on 12-5-2005 Re: HCP / Amateur events I wrote This:
MikeJanis said:
The entire thread about the subject can be found here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=22173&highlight=handicapped
Unfortunately, around that time others started doing Amateur and or HCP'ed events here in the South. And based on the economics of the situation the Viking Tour had to start the Amateur division in the South. Now it seems that everyone is doing them and it is definately driving the #'rs down for the open divisions.
However, as Brian stated, the Open Divisions were only getting about 45 players per event back then. Fortunately the Viking Tour was getting in the 50's but that still was not good enough compared to the 80 and 90 players we used to get in the 90's per event.
Now with the advent of of our combined events we are getting the 80 and 90 players each weekend again and this is helping to keep the room owners happy so they are still willing to host events. It's a trap that can not be overcome and must happen to keep pool alive.
The Viking Open only sustain because we are able to add some of the money made off the Amateur division to the Open events. If we didn't do this the Open events would have less money added to them or not exist at all.
Basically, what I am saying is that right now given the current economic weakness with the economy and the lack of BIG money added to Open and/or Pro events we NEED the Amateur events to maintain the current outlook for our sport.
The good news is that the Amateur divisions are attracting new participants in our sport to the tournament end and keeping others around while we get through the tough times.
In the future as the Amateur tour portion of the Industry becomes saturated the end result will be to have LARGER Open events with more money added to attract the players that the Amateur tours created and thus the circle continues.
Mj
B_White said:
I can not discount these words from Brian White. He has a valid point on this subject.
On 12-04-2005 I wrote this:
MikeJanis said:
And on 12-04-2005
MikeJanis said:
And on 12-5-2005 Re: HCP / Amateur events I wrote This:
MikeJanis said:
The entire thread about the subject can be found here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=22173&highlight=handicapped
Unfortunately, around that time others started doing Amateur and or HCP'ed events here in the South. And based on the economics of the situation the Viking Tour had to start the Amateur division in the South. Now it seems that everyone is doing them and it is definately driving the #'rs down for the open divisions.
However, as Brian stated, the Open Divisions were only getting about 45 players per event back then. Fortunately the Viking Tour was getting in the 50's but that still was not good enough compared to the 80 and 90 players we used to get in the 90's per event.
Now with the advent of of our combined events we are getting the 80 and 90 players each weekend again and this is helping to keep the room owners happy so they are still willing to host events. It's a trap that can not be overcome and must happen to keep pool alive.
The Viking Open only sustain because we are able to add some of the money made off the Amateur division to the Open events. If we didn't do this the Open events would have less money added to them or not exist at all.
Basically, what I am saying is that right now given the current economic weakness with the economy and the lack of BIG money added to Open and/or Pro events we NEED the Amateur events to maintain the current outlook for our sport.
The good news is that the Amateur divisions are attracting new participants in our sport to the tournament end and keeping others around while we get through the tough times.
In the future as the Amateur tour portion of the Industry becomes saturated the end result will be to have LARGER Open events with more money added to attract the players that the Amateur tours created and thus the circle continues.
Mj
Russ Chewning said:No worries, simply two differing viewpoints. I am just saying there are plenty of Open tourneys, regardless of whether their fields are smaller. If some of these guys have been told to step up to the next level, and that next level has smaller fields, then it ought to be easier to cash.
But these guys aren't cashing all that much at the next level.
To tell the God's honest truth here, I think that Brian was just comfortable beating on the lesser players, and doesn't like having to compete against the pros. I think that all this talk about the smaller fields is just sour grapes that he is no longer allowed to compete where he feels comfortable.
I used to travel all over the state of Washington to find the toughest weekly and weekend tournaments could find.
If Brian is truly in it for the competition, then there are plenty of tournaments out there for him, shorter fields or not. If he just wants the competition, he'll travel to find the best players he can to compete against.
Someone else mentioned they haven't seen Brian at the local tournaments he could have competed in. It seems to me he doesn't like being dead money any more than the amateurs he used to beat up on.
Russ
have you even looked up Brian's name or thought about asking anyone his speed? He has never even played in an amateur tourney as far as I know so that doesn't even enter the equation. If you'll do a little research you'll see that Brian has won a ton of open events so him playing in the amateur tourneys is moot point. He was just saying that the classification and different tournaments was putting a strain on the open tourneys. I wish you would actually try to know a little about something before you post.
corvette1340 said:
He is a bad dude!
gpeezy
for sale!
One thing is there is a big difference in the caliber player that plays in opens and the ones who play the amateurs. Brian, what do you want more suckers for bigger payouts? There will be players that will get moved out of the amateur tournaments and will have to play in opens. I will play in them, but would rather play in an amateur. I agree with separating calibers if possible. There are people that play in an amateur tournament that I'm sure wouldn't play in an open.
Either way you go here someone hates it, cause no one wants to be dead money. If you let the A players in the amateur tourney's, then the B and below players feel like dead money! But if you boot them out, and make them move up, they become dead money in the open tourney's competing against guys who live in the poolhall 24/7! most A players still have jobs, and that is one of the big reasons they never play at that next level.
But the amateur tours are good for the sport because you have a different type of player out there today. Joe Nobody is no longer willing to just repeatedly donate to get better. It is the same reason there is less and less action every day. There are to many internet pool detectives, and action knockers. People want to play when they have way the best of it, or at least a good chance! These players would no longer play if there were just open events, they would be on the sidelines instead of out there competing!
And the combined events at the Viking tour, is the best solution. These give the players in the middle like Southpaw the chance to donate in the open events but still be able to salvage the weekend by playing in the amateur event.
Jeremy
But the amateur tours are good for the sport because you have a different type of player out there today. Joe Nobody is no longer willing to just repeatedly donate to get better. It is the same reason there is less and less action every day. There are to many internet pool detectives, and action knockers. People want to play when they have way the best of it, or at least a good chance! These players would no longer play if there were just open events, they would be on the sidelines instead of out there competing!
And the combined events at the Viking tour, is the best solution. These give the players in the middle like Southpaw the chance to donate in the open events but still be able to salvage the weekend by playing in the amateur event.
Jeremy
Meant no offense, just that your in the middle like me, where in the amateurs you're one of the favorites but probably at best a tough draw in a good open tourney. You probably don't have the same expectations when entering both. Though you probably would cash regularly in open events.Southpaw said:
Jeremy
instroke75 said:
Agreed...no offense taken. I have no illusions of winning an open event, but I do try and set a goal for myself to cash. That way, I feel I am getting a chance to play tough competition and a chance to improve my game at a reasonable price. Alot cheaper than taking lessons for $100/ hour and not getting a chance to shoot. JMO.
Southpaw
He must have been talking about me, Southpaw.........Southpaw said:
spoonie said:
This is all well and good ($50 entry fees for amateur events) if the amateur events are gonna pay cash to the winners instead of some dust-collectin' trophy
. But then, if they paid cash, then winners would then be classified as pros for getting paid 
. In the words of the famous brilliant-minded Vinnie Barbarino (Welcome Back Kotter): "I'm so confused".Maniac
instroke75 said:
Putting aside your snide remark aimed towards me in a previous post, I actually agree with you here. Holding amateur and open events side by side is best.
Russ
Hey Russ- you did say some things about Brian that weren't very nice. Are you going to reply to any of the questions, i.e., when Brian "robbed" amateur tourneys, etc. It seems only fair that you should give the evidence, since you already kind of dragged his name through the mud.-Matt