American Rotation

Sloppy Pockets said:
Just watched up to 109-51, Alcano over Eberle. That's a pretty big deficit to overcome with alternate breaks and a point-based scoring system. It was hinted that this wasn't the end of it for Max, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see how it turns out.

I guess I really like this game a lot. The rules seem well thought out, giving each player multiple chances at the table, even during the most lopsided of mismatches. Seems like it will be very easy to handicap this game. Can't wait to play it, but I really don't see it making its way into bar play, at least in my area, where most of the bars have one table at best and the wait is long enough for an 8-ball game as it is.
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Hi Sloppy Pockets, I did manage to come back and win, maybe you saw it already. Ronnie and I have battled it out before in rotation in the Philippines with him up 2-1 in races to 7 of 61 before we played this match. I've been playing rotation since I was a teenager, as my grandpa was a master at it and showed me the ropes. I like Joe T's version of rotation a lot, American Rotation, as it incorporates safeties and call shots. I do look forward to playing more! Thanks Joe T!
 
Great game Joe!
Played it at my club and really enjoyed it. Think that 1 and 2 points is a better balance in American rotation than the original game!

I'm lovin' it! Lalala
😏
 
maxeberle said:
Hi Sloppy Pockets, I did manage to come back and win, maybe you saw it already.
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Damn, Max, you spoiled the ending for me! Lol

You're a very scrappy player with a lot of heart. No surprise to me that you'd come back like that. I hope all the pros like it as much as you do. I think this may be just the game pro pool needs right now... on the 10' table, naturally. ;)

One thing I would have liked to have seen is to divide the ball values between solids and stripes instead of 1-10 and 11-15. It would create a lot more scoring options through combos and caroms. Of course, that would leave the 8-ball out. Maybe save it for the end, give it 3 points? I think it would be easier to sell to diehard 8-ballers (99.9% of recreational players).

Sounds like this game has already moved out of the Beta stage, though. It seems enjoyable enough just the way it is.
 
maxeberle said:
Hi Sloppy Pockets, I did manage to come back and win, maybe you saw it already. Ronnie and I have battled it out before in rotation in the Philippines with him up 2-1 in races to 7 of 61 before we played this match. I've been playing rotation since I was a teenager, as my grandpa was a master at it and showed me the ropes. I like Joe T's version of rotation a lot, American Rotation, as it incorporates safeties and call shots. I do look forward to playing more! Thanks Joe T!
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Hi Max, I have watched your match with Ronnie and I was impressed with your comeback. I could see a lot of straight pool technique in your game. You have great way of explaining things to, any chance of you doing some commentating on one of these matches anytime soon? I would love to hear your thoughts as a rack is being played out.
P.S. I really enjoyed you helm-cam videos.
 
There we go, a lil USA, Japan, Germany awesome, glad you guys are taking it to the table. That's where I would like the game to be judged. Just being a new game is like being on 2 but once it gets tot he table it doesn't go on 3, lol

Max you deprived the man of sweatng your comeback!
 
Since your watching this post I thought I would take this opportunity to thank you Joe. Not just for the game but also for some great instructional material.
The "Guaranteed Improvement" has been great for me and I really like your dvd on racking secrets. I need to go ahead and order the rail workout DVD's, I hear they're great.

For anyone who hasn't tried it I highly recommend Joe's Guaranteed Improvement Combo, Racking Secrets and the Stroke Trainer. All worthwhile products. Joe has a nice straight forward no BS way of explaining things.

So anyhow thanks Joe, You've really helped improve my game.
 
Cdryden said:
Since your watching this post I thought I would take this opportunity to thank you Joe. Not just for the game but also for some great instructional material.
The "Guaranteed Improvement" has been great for me and I really like your dvd on racking secrets. I need to go ahead and order the rail workout DVD's, I hear they're great.

For anyone who hasn't tried it I highly recommend Joe's Guaranteed Improvement Combo, Racking Secrets and the Stroke Trainer. All worthwhile products. Joe has a nice straight forward no BS way of explaining things.

So anyhow thanks Joe, You've really helped improve my game.
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Well you are very welcome and I thank you for the support. I checked out your videos in your signature and it's clear you have some skills of your own ;)
I appreciate you bringing American Rotation out for others to see and play.
 
Joe T said:
Well you are very welcome and I thank you for the support. I checked out your videos in your signature and it's clear you have some skills of your own ;)
I appreciate you bringing American Rotation out for others to see and play.
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Thanks Joe! If there is anything else I can do to help feel free to let me know.
 
Bump for my bud Cleary ;) Grab a good player, make a game and let me know how you like or you no like.
 
Joe,

I watched you and JB play several games in Jersey. It Looked like a ton of fun... Will have to break down and try it soon.. Any word from your App guy when it will be available to the public??

Will be looking for you down this way in the next month or so... Hope the new tip is still holding up to your liking.....

Chris
 
Joe, have you figured out a speed ranking system for American Rotation, similar to what you did for the Ten Ball Break-N-Run drill. Five racks to 100?, ten racks to 200? Where would an D,C,B,A,SS,pro stand?
 
How to get ppl interested ?

dr_dave said:
I concise summary, detailed rules, a score sheet, and a video demonstration can be found here:

Enjoy Joe's great new game,
Dave
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Dr. Dave,
IMO, You and a few other "instructors" in this forum are PRICELESS !! :smile:

I would shout-out their names ,but figure I would upset someone if I forgot to mention them. You all know who you are ! There's about 1/2 dozen helping us all !! :thumbup::cool:

Everywhere I go, everyone wants to play 8-ball or 1 pocket. I try to tell them how challenging it is and they shrug, then try it to appease me, then revert back to 1 pocket or 8-ball. Thankfully, I can talk some into 9-ball, 10-ball. :grin:

You guys ROCK! :thumbup2:
 
Toncam said:
I am liking what i have seen and read so far. I have always liked Rotation and i play it with a weaker player and i give up ball in hand when i miss to keep it interesting.
What we do for score is we have a sheet of paper listing 1 through 15 at the top and little boxes underneath it and two columns for our names and we just check off what balls we have made as we got along and add them up to see who gets to 61 first.
Its easier than getting under the return and stuffing the balls into the slots, provided one of us doesnt forget, lol.
This new game looks very interesting and i will watch it again to get everything right.
In the original form of the game when someone scratches or fouls, the incoming player gets ball in hand anywhere on the table or it stays in the kitchen ? And if the next ball is in the kitchen, does it go to the head spot ? Old timers have told me different variations through the years.
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That is what I was doing. Ppl look strangely at ya when you pull out a slip of paper! I would also play the "points" balls ,.... 7 of them. Play them for face value, or 1 pt each taking best of 7. The "points" balls were 1,3,5,8,10,12,15. I think there are about 12 different variations of rotation. I only know of 4-5 of them.Oldsters I knew ruled a scratch was CB goes in the kitchen. If lowest rotation ball is in there too, the CB goes on the footspot.
 
Joe T said:
This was one of the motivating factors that went into creating the game in the first place, GET US BETTER! We all have a lot of theories as to why the Filipinos play better than most everyone but one of the reasons I think even all us azers can agree on is that they play more rotation.

A few other things this game is going to do for us are;
Create more action; it’s going to be another game and another way for players of all levels to match up and match up pretty fairly. So fair I’ll probably end up catching sh** for it. When that happens, lower level players are going to enjoy playing higher level players more often and this is good for both sides as the stronger players need the action and lower levels need the experience.

Simply playing the game with anyone improves everything, kicks, safes, position play, decision making and RUNNNNNING OUT.

Initially, before they ever play, some people worry about keeping score but after just 1 game they see it’s a hanger so please don’t let that stop you. And the app is already built so it’ll be even easier real soon ;)
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I think the game needs to be simplified as far as points are concerned. Currently, with the 1 point for balls 1-10, 2 points for balls 11-15, it wasn't easy to keep track of scores. It would be easier to have just 1 point per ball and keep the balls you make in the table slots like one pocket. Then tally it at the end.

Another value of 1 point per ball is that people have to work harder to make the first set of balls (1-10) owing to much more traffic at the beginning of the rack. So it doesn't make sense to me that the last few balls (11-15) would be worth more points. It wont be fair if you do a good clearance at the beginning but miss the last few balls, and your opponent doesn't have to sweat it to stay in the game.
 
Joe T said:
I'm very interested in receiving some bar table feedback for this game.
I haven't played or witnessed a set on a bar table yet and I'm very curious on how the game will flow? The only time the rules call for spotting a ball are if you happen to knock a ball off the table on the break, other than that we never have to spot balls so it should work out fine on the bar box. That is, other than having to manuever your way through 15 balls in rotation around a lot of traffic.
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It is definitely tougher on my bar table. Lots of clustering, just like 8-ball. However, it goes quickly enough. I enjoy maneuvering on a small table through the traffic.
 
This game is a breeze to handicap. We have been playing sets of 3 with a race to 50 points. (for a quick game) And we have done races to 150. In either case, no matter what the skill level of a player is, it is simple to give 2 players a fairly even chance of winning.

I have given up to 35 points in a race to 50 and we both felt it was a close game and wanted to do it again. Before we had a hard time matching up in 9 ball because he wanted so much weight that it made it hard for me to beat him. I would play better but he would luck out on one shot and the game was over. One little mistake was all it took.

This game allows for a lot more tweaking with the handicap which can result in a near even game. (If both players are honest about their speed) I have noticed that more players are willing to mix it up because they are actually able to get a handicap that gives them a real chance of winning.

So for all you gamblers out there, this is a great game to get someone on the table that wouldn't play you before. Once people see how this handicap allows for a wider range of skill levels to compete against each other they are more willing to risk their cash.

9 ball is easy enough to handicap but someone like Shane could give most any normal player the orange crush and beat them all day long. With this game you have a better equalizer, and no more luck out shots for the bangers.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys, keep on playing, the talking about a new game doesn't work too well but when they play they like. I'll be playing some at Zingales in Tallahassee today ;)
 
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