An American disgrace

billy said:
:bow-down: ... :bow-down: ... probably a few out there ...
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I'm singing this TUNE every single morning, these days. :embarrassed2:

FIVE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNIN'
I'M UP BEFORE THE SUN
WHEN MY WORK DAY IS OVER
I'M TOO TIRED FOR HAVIN' FUN

WELL I BEEN WORKIN' IN A COAL MINE
GOIN' DOWN DOWN
WORKIN' IN A COAL MINE
WHEW ABOUT TO SLIP DOWN

WORKIN' IN A COAL MINE
GOIN' DOWN DOWN
WORKIN' IN A COAL MINE
WHEW ABOUT TO SLIP DOWN
 
arps said:
maybe these stats could explain why this is happening,
View attachment 306321

note that none of these events happened in europe.
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case closed.

the fact that europe also have an organized tour for pool is another part of the explanation. both feijen and souquet have been doing fairly good on the eurotour this year, feijen being ranked nr 3 at the moment. and thats besides the national tours, which are based on the same system.
 
It's better to wait for the cup to be over before final conclusions, I will only say at this moment that things in Europe are not better for pool than USA..
 
JAM said:
Well, 90 percent of this forum are second-tier pool aficionados. What gives them the right to judge a professional player?
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It's easy to judge the misses. Especially the ones these pros are heavy favorites to make. That shot on the 7 that Mika missed hill-hill when he and Darren were playing Shane and Earl. Yeah, I think it's okay to be a little harsh on him for that. Commentators (that have never played in the NFL) do it all the time when a wide receiver misses an easy catch. Heck, they even do it when he misses a not so easy catch.

Some people here will say the pressure is getting to the Americans, but to that I can't fully agree. Everyone on our team are veterans, not only in the sport of pool, but in the Mosconi Cup as well. Plus we're playing at "home." Pressure should be the last excuse.

We can also use excuses like the break, or lucky rolls. But the fact is as of right now, Team Europe is just playing so much better than us and making fewer unforced errors.
 
Petros Andrikop said:
It's better to wait for the cup to be over before final conclusions, I will only say at this moment that things in Europe are not better for pool than USA..
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I do not pretend to be an expert on neither the US nor the EU system(s)....but I would like to know your reasoning here? From what I can see, there is a functioning Eurotour, there are functioning governing body for Europe for billiards as well as individual organizations in most countries that have their own tours. There are also youth-programs in many European countries and even funding from Gov't or national olympic committee (NL) for the sport and the top-athletes. Perhaps there is something I do not know about the US system that makes it superior (or at least on par with the EU system), in which case I would really love to know.

Also, I would not draw any conclusions based on a single tournament...perhaps a series of tournaments, but even that would be very inconclusive.
 
BeiberLvr said:
It's easy to judge the misses. Especially the ones these pros are heavy favorites to make. That shot on the 7 that Mika missed hill-hill when he and Darren were playing Shane and Earl. Yeah, I think it's okay to be a little harsh on him for that. Commentators (that have never played in the NFL) do it all the time when a wide receiver misses an easy catch. Heck, they even do it when he misses a not so easy catch.

Some people here will say the pressure is getting to the Americans, but to that I can't fully agree. Everyone on our team are veterans, not only in the sport of pool, but in the Mosconi Cup as well. Plus we're playing at "home." Pressure should be the last excuse.

We can also use excuses like the break, or lucky rolls. But the fact is as of right now, Team Europe is just playing so much better than us and making fewer unforced errors.
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The main problem with this year's Team USA is lack of team unison.

Those on site stated two of the members stayed out partying late the night before Day One. When I was on the tournament trail with my other half, I made damn sure he was in bed EARLY before the next day's tournament began. You don't go out partying all night long and expect to bring your best game to the table the next morning. That's a given.

Johnny Archer's entire family is at this event. I love his spirit and admire his passion for pool, but it seemed to me, from what I could see on the broadcast, that he was distracted. At one point when he was partners with Dennis, I heard Johnny say, "There goes Leeanne again." He might have meant it lovingly, but I'm not sure. He wasn't smiling when he said it. I think it is great to have that family support, though; however, his mind just didn't seem to me like it was 100 percent on the team as captain or as a member, IMO.

Shane and Earl was visibly absent from the audience, supporting their fellow team members. Some said they were in the practice room, gearing up, so that's a good reason to not be there, but when you look at Team Europe, they sure did seem to have a lot of support at every single match, right there in the front row, providing encouragement and/or pats on the back after EVERY SINGLE GAME. Not so with Team USA.

It's easy for me to sit back and critique what I think went wrong so far, but I'm not there. I'm not shooting in the Mosconi Cup. There may be things that all of us are unaware of.

Anyway, that's my take. :)
 
boogeyman said:
For those of you who cry "disgrace" you need to not feed into the Ugly American syndrome.
It is only a disgrace if our players don't handle defeat in a professional manner.
And from what has been witnessed already, they are NOT doing that.

For those of you who also demanded "ratings" by having Earl participate have erred. More people have been exposed to bad behaviors.

We need a team who wants to win and can keep their hearts in their chest when things go awry—a la Ralph Souquet—and can watch their mouths and NOT disrespect others.

Be smarter about this next year folks.
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Completely agree with this.

As much as Earl deserves to be there, and I love Earl, he is who he is and people shouldn't be surprised by his behavior. However, the American team cannot be winning any new fans by watching his childish antics. He's difficult to root for at times. Especially if you don't know him as well as we do. We all wish that we could have five Shanes on the team. Both for his play and his professionalism but thats not possible. And maybe Rodney and Hatch are not playing how they are capable of playing but thats the game. I do think that the Europeans have gotten way more of the "rolls" so far though. Especially on day one. And we all know that it takes just a couple bad rolls to change the course of a match. Especially such short races.
 
JAM said:
The main problem with this year's Team USA is lack of team unison.

Those on site stated two of the members stayed out partying late the night before Day One. When I was on the tournament trail with my other half, I made damn sure he was in bed EARLY before the next day's tournament began. You don't go out partying all night long and expect to bring your best game to the table the next morning. That's a given.

Johnny Archer's entire family is at this event. I love his spirit and admire his passion for pool, but it seemed to me, from what I could see on the broadcast, that he was distracted. At one point when he was partners with Dennis, I heard Johnny say, "There goes Leeanne again." He might have meant it lovingly, but I'm not sure. He wasn't smiling when he said it. I think it is great to have that family support, though; however, his mind just didn't seem to me like it was 100 percent on the team as captain or as a member, IMO.

Shane and Earl was visibly absent from the audience, supporting their fellow team members. Some said they were in the practice room, gearing up, so that's a good reason to not be there, but when you look at Team Europe, they sure did seem to have a lot of support at every single match, right there in the front row, providing encouragement and/or pats on the back after EVERY SINGLE GAME. Not so with Team USA.

It's easy for me to sit back and critique what I think went wrong so far, but I'm not there. I'm not shooting in the Mosconi Cup. There may be things that all of us are unaware of.

Anyway, that's my take. :)
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Speaking of team unison, the only doubles match I watched was Shane/Earl vs. Mika/Darren, but there was one thing that immediately stood out.

When it was Europe's turn at the table, both players were up surveying the situation. But when it was USA's turn, only Shane or Earl would be at the table.
 
Agree - although Dennis got all the rolls vs Ralf and still lost. 2 9 ball breaks and a 3 9 combo off of Ralf's break.

He simply should not be there.

JBB2388 said:
Completely agree with this.

As much as Earl deserves to be there, and I love Earl, he is who he is and people shouldn't be surprised by his behavior. However, the American team cannot be winning any new fans by watching his childish antics. He's difficult to root for at times. Especially if you don't know him as well as we do. We all wish that we could have five Shanes on the team. Both for his play and his professionalism but thats not possible. And maybe Rodney and Hatch are not playing how they are capable of playing but thats the game. I do think that the Europeans have gotten way more of the "rolls" so far though. Especially on day one. And we all know that it takes just a couple bad rolls to change the course of a match. Especially such short races.
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Kimmo said:
I do not pretend to be an expert on neither the US nor the EU system(s)....but I would like to know your reasoning here? From what I can see, there is a functioning Eurotour, there are functioning governing body for Europe for billiards as well as individual organizations in most countries that have their own tours. There are also youth-programs in many European countries and even funding from Gov't or national olympic committee (NL) for the sport and the top-athletes. Perhaps there is something I do not know about the US system that makes it superior (or at least on par with the EU system), in which case I would really love to know.

Also, I would not draw any conclusions based on a single tournament...perhaps a series of tournaments, but even that would be very inconclusive.
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In my country for eg which provided a talented member for the winning European Mosconi cup team last year (huge accomplishment) there is no federation and no help for the players for a lot of years now, many other countries have problems as well, Eurotour is only a series of events that alone cannot support the idea of one living on playing pool which is difficult on a world basis as well.
Anyway this leads to another discussion which should be taken to another thread, I believe it's better to do it after the cup is over, things are kind of relative and a lot of parameters have to be considered when we try to analyze the whole thing.
Thanks for the reply,
Petros
 
Petros Andrikop said:
In my country for eg which provided a talented member for the winning European Mosconi cup team last year (huge accomplishment) there is no federation and no help for the players for a lot of years now, many other countries have problems as well, Eurotour is only a series of events that alone cannot support the idea of one living on playing pool which is difficult on a world basis as well.
Anyway this leads to another discussion which should be taken to another thread, I believe it's better to do it after the cup is over, things are kind of relative and a lot of parameters have to be considered when we try to analyze the whole thing.
Thanks for the reply,
Petros
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while I agree that the system in Europe is not ideal and there are many countries that have no official organization at all.....you still do have countries in Europe where there are....own tour, organized national teams, financial support, youth programs etc. Now compare that to the US where, AFAIK, there is none of these (some tours but mostly regional). I would take the EU system where at least in parts of EU you have something, any day over US where there is no system anywhere. (US friends, please correct me if I am wrong)
 
bring in the young guns

Earl and Johnny A are great but man there is some talent that deserves a chance. Mike Dechaine or Joey Gray give then some experience and see if they can shine.

Europe is much more organized and pool oriented. And they have no clue what a 7 ft bar box valley is in Europe they all play on 9ft plus tables. Unfortunately pool in america is a joke its just like everything else "COMMERCIALIZED" trying to become as rich as you can. I understand its the "American Dream" but man in this case its hurting our pro players.
 
BeiberLvr said:
It's easy to judge the misses. Especially the ones these pros are heavy favorites to make. That shot on the 7 that Mika missed hill-hill when he and Darren were playing Shane and Earl. Yeah, I think it's okay to be a little harsh on him for that. Commentators (that have never played in the NFL) do it all the time when a wide receiver misses an easy catch. Heck, they even do it when he misses a not so easy catch.

Some people here will say the pressure is getting to the Americans, but to that I can't fully agree. Everyone on our team are veterans, not only in the sport of pool, but in the Mosconi Cup as well. Plus we're playing at "home." Pressure should be the last excuse.

We can also use excuses like the break, or lucky rolls. But the fact is as of right now, Team Europe is just playing so much better than us and making fewer unforced errors.
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Technique fails under pressure. Elephant in room.
 
ceodynamo said:
Europe is much more organized and pool oriented. And they have no clue what a 7 ft bar box valley is in Europe they all play on 9ft plus tables.
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I can not agree with this 100%. I know at least in Finland you have special league for amateurs (not ranked players in the Finnish championships cirquit) and the winners of this league, both individual and teams go to participate at ValleyForge. From history I believe some teams and individuals have even done very well at these tournaments. This league in Finland is played in bars exclusivery on 7' tables as far as I know.
 
Thanks Kimmo

Yes there are leagues that have the Valley Bar Box tables. But its few and far between. We have competed in the VNEA national championships before and have faced teams from Europe.

Yes you are correct these are amatuer teams but they still play very good.

Large Majority of pool rooms again have 9ft tables + with lots of snooker and several countries sponsor there players and support the junior leagues. Until we start encouraging younger players to play pool at a high level. America will always be behind the 8ball.

I love America!
 
Ever have a friend or team mate who runs their mouth and puts everyone in a negative mood. Your embarrassed by their actions. That's Earl. Never understood bipolar. My brother was diagnosed as bipolar. Never agreed with it. He just picked and chose who and when he wanted to be an ass. That's Earl. Becomes an ass when he is losing. Don't care how brilliant they say he is or how great he was. Emotions are good for TV but they should have sharking rules. If your opponent does absolutely nothing wrong then you should have to keep your mouth shut. Earl is classless and may affect his team negatively.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
I was wondering if anyone had the balls to call a spade a spade. Rodney's position play has looked like a semi-pro. Dennis Hatch is always looking for a yes man in the crowd every time he dogs it. The Euros play better patterns and control the cue ball far better . They carry themselves like gentlemen and let their play do the talking/ I'm pulling like hell for the US .. but they just aren't as good. period!
Bob Dixon said:
The Euro team has gotten fortunate layouts and more lucky rolls. Earl wasn't just making that up. Mika beat Shane by slopping in the 9 on one break. That kind of luck won't hold out in a heads up money race to 50 or 75.

Also, everyone else on the American team is having to deal with Rodney Morris' absolutely crappy position play.
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kwakaa said:
this team needs to qualify for spots. But with all the tourneys bailing in the US it may be hard to gauge the best players here.

Dechaine, Shuff, SVB, Dool and Shandon Luffet should be USA's team the next 3 years. let them gel as a team, they can all play rotation. This is an exhibition where they all get paid and we are laying an egg so far. No harm in letting our youngest best players get some experience.

It aint over. Go USA!!!
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lolwat...are you serious?
 
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