An American disgrace

[tommy84]

Yes there are leagues that have the Valley Bar Box tables. But its few and far between. We have competed in the VNEA national championships before and have faced teams from Europe.

Yes you are correct these are amatuer teams but they still play very good.

Large Majority of pool rooms again have 9ft tables + with lots of snooker and several countries sponsor there players and support the junior leagues. Until we start encouraging younger players to play pool at a high level. America will always be behind the 8ball.

I love America!

Absolutely correct. If you look at the German Premier League you have Feijen, van den Berg, Souquet, Alcaide and also great German junior players. One player started playing Premier League at the age of 15 and competed against the above mentioned pros.

Just check youtube for the channel "poolstage" and look for videos called "Bundesliga"

But for me, the real problem is Earl. He just said "I'd be playing better if my team did" - that thought might hold true, but you never ever say something like that out loud and you shouldn't think about it at all. And it's not that he gave up at 2-10, he was like that on day one. All Earl cared about was negativity - complaining about rolls and hard shots instead of looking for opportunities. That safety he played instead of running out like Karl did...

edit:
The other big reason is that many European players are very much used to team play. Above mentioned Bundesliga is full of high caliber players. You have the paid pros, but also very talented amateur players. There's one guy who works in a normal job and he beat almost every German pro at least once. We Germans grow up playing pool being part of a team and not as money players on the road

 

[bowiebill]

one major difference between the two teams that i noticed was the americans were too aggresive. There were too many times throughout the cup that american players sold out on difficult shots when a defense would have been the better move.

 

[sharkmate]

11-2 is a joke....

Its time to retire these guys with the exception of Shane!:grin:

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

"What started as a joke, has turned out to be a disaster!"
Rocky 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEtJ0GiOp64

 

[ceodynamo]

forgot about bartram SHAME ON ME

Dechaine, Bartram, Joey Gray or Chip Compton, We need some guys that want to win for each other.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Lol. Are you suggesting Dennis Hatch is a better player than Darren Appleton? Factless trolling indeed!

This is an illogical inference from Bob Dixon's post. His post implied that Hatch played better than Appleton *for money*, as in gambling matches. Also, he implied that Hatch is not even in the tier 1 of american players. The conclusion that could be drawn from this is that there are several more American players that are better money match players than Appleton. I'm not so sure this is true, but it is the correct inference to draw from his post.

So I'd say "no". He wasn't suggesting that.

KMRUNOUT

 

[CJ Wiley]

The American players are capable of running out ever time..but they didn't

This. Europe have had the edge in rolls, but nowhere near 7 matches difference worth of rolls.

The big difference this year has been simple, from what I've seen. Europe have been running out when they should run out, the USA just haven't. Too many make-able balls missed, too many simple positional shots left long or short, too many bad decisions poorly executed.

Yes, no matter your age, country or gender you have to run out consistently to win.

The American players are capable of running out ever time {that they didn't this year}....so it isn't the skill level, it's something else.......hmmmm, what could that be???

 

[derekdisco]

No one has brought up the real issue as to why the USA lost this year, and its clearly Rodneys eyebrow ring.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Very true. People like to bang on Earl, but he has been the best player so far on our team by a wide margin. Not to mention that he is also the only player that looked like he had any desire to win. SVB did a few times, then, it seemed to go away again.

Earl played very well, despite missing two balls he never should have missed. Most of the time he was right in line and on the correct side of the ball. The others seemed to be on the wrong side of the ball more often than not. The Euros flat out out-shot our guys both days. Niels Feijen played truly professional pool today. Then yet, he is the one that believes in doing drills and hard work too. It does pay off in time. Half our team doesn't even believe in practice, and hardly ever match up with anyone of equal caliber. Shane will step up, as will Earl when given the chance, and both hold their own. The others just seem to sit back and wait for someone to give them something. That doesn't work on the world stage anymore.

Another thing that shocked me, is that our team pushed for the change in the rack and the break box, yet, none of them seemed to know how to break from there. ??? Niels was the one that seemed to show everyone else how to do it. That break has been around for a long, long time. The cb just has to be one balls width off the center line, and then a very solid hit on the one. The back ball will kick the 9 up to the corner every time, and you will often get an early game if you control the speed of it. Why did our guys not even know that?

Why did all but one of our guys look like they didn't even want to be there? Any potential sponsors seeing their attitudes would be turned away immediately by it. The only time Hatch showed anything was when he slopped in the 9 on a break, then he strutted around like he really did something.

A lot on here won't like it, but our guys just flat out don't deserve to win. They have to get their act together. First step is to at least act like a team and act like you are grateful to be there and want to win.

I agree with you 100%. Well said. Very good post.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Pool Shark]

This was a mismatch on mental strength and leadership! plain and simple...

 

[CJ Wiley]

What other 5 players could beat these guys?

Its time to retire these guys with the exception of Shane!:grin:

What other 5 players could beat these guys? Shane has to be included because he's got the worst record out of all of them overall. I really don't think this format appeals to any of them, but who does it appeal to?

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Well, 90 percent of this forum are second-tier pool aficionados. What gives them the right to judge a professional player?

Their existence as a sentient conscious human being. That is what gives all people the right to form opinions about anything and everything. Whether their opinions are right or wrong, well founded or not may be a different story...


KMRUNOUT

 

[JAM]

No one has brought up the real issue as to why the USA lost this year, and its clearly Rodneys eyebrow ring.

No, it wasn't Rodney's eyebrow ring. It was clearly that stark white patent-leather belt he wore daily.

 

[JAM]

Their existence as a sentient conscious human being. That is what gives all people the right to form opinions about anything and everything. Whether their opinions are right or wrong, well founded or not may be a different story...


KMRUNOUT

With all due respect, "forming opinions" and "judging" are two different animals. :wink:

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I do not know him personally but even though he has had 2 bad mosconi cups he still deserves to be there to represent team USA!! He is the 2nd ranked American but gets bypassed probably because the mosconi cup is all political!! What about Jeremy sossei ranked number 3 American y not give this kid a shot there? No disrespect to Dennis or Johnny but what have they done to be there this year??

Johnny convincingly played the best last year. That is what he did. Not so sure about Dennis.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Desmondp]

The bottom line

The American team except for SVB are the stars of yesteryear, the European team are the stars of today

The commentators kept going on about how every player on both team was a world champ etc

For the european team, these titles have come this year or at the most in the past few years. For the american team with a few exceptions, the world titles were years ago.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

The fact that you consider 6 out of 7 flips totally normal sounds like you don't get statistics.
6 out 7 heads is about a 6% chance.

You really think that's what's been happening for the past 7 years?
A 6% statistical fluke?

If you have a more accurate way of showing it mathematically, put it out there.
But it's clear we're losing because our team is not as good as theirs.
We break worse and we handle pressure worse.

There's plenty of tangible stuff you can track:
Count how many times we don't make a ball on the break or scratch on the break.
Count how many times we make a huge error that is unquestionably "dogging it"
(like earl trying to thin a 1 ball just now and whiffing, giving up BIH and costing the rack).
Count how many times players hook themselves playing shape, or miss a routine shot.

Any way you wanna add it up, this is not bad luck. We're getting outplayed year after year.

I think the point was that in all the coin flips that have ever happened, heads has come up 6 out of 7 times VERY often. You know...if you flip a coin a million times, I'm gonna bet you get 10 heads in a row a few times in there...In other words it is reasonably common on a large scale to have 6 out of 7 heads. In fact, if you flipped a million times, it would be *highly* unusual to not get a bunch of runs of one side in a row...

KMRUNOUT

 

[HawaiianEye]

What other 5 players could beat these guys? Shane has to be included because he's got the worst record out of all of them overall. I really don't think this format appeals to any of them, but who does it appeal to?

Aloha CJ,

You BEAT me to IT!

I was going to ask the SAME question but was trying to figure out how to word it!

What OTHER 5 American players could beat the current USA lineup?

People can sit on here and talk $HIT all day about "XXX would have/could have/may have/etc. done better". I want people to name, BY NAME, the American players who have a PROVEN track record of consistently beating the players that were selected for this team.

Out of our lineup, I would say SVB, Earl, and Johnny are/would be the FAVORITE over almost ANY other US pro playing today. I'm not sure the SAME can be said for Dennis or Rodney.

I'm not blaming the loss totally on the players though. I think the loss was due to a LACK of LEADERSHIP and DIRECTION by "whomever" was considered the "LEADER" of this team.

The team should have been FORCED to stay together/practice together/play together beginning AT LEAST a week (preferably longer) prior to the event being held. They should have had REGULAR practice sessions utilizing all the Mosconi rules on the same type of tables and the breaking restrictions. If the "selected" players were UNABLE/UNWILLING to abide these rules, then they should have been "deselected" LONG before the event began and "new" players selected to replace them.

If the players CAN'T HANDLE "adult supervision", then they maybe should stick TOTALLY to INDIVIDUAL events where they don't need a babysitter.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

With all due respect, "forming opinions" and "judging" are two different animals. :wink:

I was specifically thinking about this when I wrote my response. I'd be interested to hear what you think the difference is?

To me, judging basically takes the "forming opinions" idea and adds on an *evaluation*. In other words, a pronouncement of good or bad. So it might look like this:

"If team USA had more team spirit, they would have played better" (forming opinion)

"If team USA had more team spirit, they would have played better. Since they didn't, they are terrible." (Judging)

To me it sounded like the majority of posts in this thread thankfully fell into the first category. With all due respect to you (and ALL people), I do not think any of us are first tier "judges". People are fairly stupid by their nature, and simply not qualified to judge. They should avoid it. (Notice how I carefully avoided judging people for judging, and instead only "expressed my opinion"? :wink:

KMRUNOUT

 

[Island Drive]

This was a mismatch on mental strength and leadership! plain and simple...

Your pretty much nailed it. JA and SVB had composure, Buddy I'm not sure what got accomplished there $$$$$. The excessive whining and Sigel like dialogue from some players was a VERY poor use of ones time during match play, It easily can effect others on their team. When a pro spends their time not thinking about cause/effect and instead complain about the bad rolls they pretty much self destruct. Even the players when sitting down waiting for their turn, should of at least postured up to increase their oxygen intake to open their lungs and increase awareness. Being slouched over is Not helping clarity. Having played under similar conditions for years, this seemed like Gamblers playing against Players. Many of the European players grew up around the Great Snooker players, and in turn understand and learn from their peers. In the US that demographic is nearly non existent, and that's how I see it.