An open conversation on what pool in North America needs and can support.

SJDinPHX said:
That is true!..Trudeau was a man of very questionable character!..But with Mike Sigel's guidance, the IPT had the potential to be an enduring success!..It appears the law change, (at about that same time) making internet gambling illegal, was its ultimate downfall!..We'll never know if it could have survived all his 'other' notably shady tactics, but he sure had everyone excited over big prize money in pool, didn't he? :rolleyes:

PS..Maybe the guy looking to invest the 500K in pool, should have a chat with Mike Sigel???
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Um, no offense.
But if Mike gets involved in this, he will negotiate a 500k salary for himself and say the heck with everyone else.
Lets keep it real.
 
Johnnyt said:
Watching pool is not boring when you have a bet on the game. Not betting on pool is like not betting at the Horse or Greyhound track. Johnnyt
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I've bet on indy racing and golf before. Still found them boring as hell to watch.

On the flip side, I've never bet on snooker and can still sit through a 3 hour long match no problem.

While betting on pool would be nice. It wouldn't make a huge difference in getting the general public interested. Not everyone is a degen like you.
 
Post #92

For fun I picked and inserted individual ideas starting from threads in the 30 then the last thread seemed to want to take a different course.
Here's some of YOUR thoughts:
#37 boogeyman
The IPT was indeed great.
#38 DaveM
$5 to be added to the yearly APA membership
#39 dardusm
I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel.
BRussell
Focus on the investors and promoters making money
Fuji-whopper
In the US you get looked down upon, thought of as a hopeless gambler and are constantly compared to (and losing to) a large pizza.
Tramp Steamer
Take the best parts of the WPBA, for instance, and use that as a start point. Throw out the parts that didn't work.
JCIN
Honestly though if I had half a million burning a hole in my pocket I would look to just about everyone in the U.S. pool industry for what not to do. I include myself in that group. At the end of the day no one in it has figured out the answer
Positively Ralf
I think it would be easier to put together something long lasting for amateurs than it would be for pros
JoeyA
he is the wellspring from whence visionary ideas could be found.
NYC cue dude
It's not individual money that can revitalize the sport. It has to be a systemic change both on how pool is perceived by the masses and corporations
Fran crimi
One of the things that made the WPBA work so well was the cooperation of the players.
cleary
In my opinion, the only way to make pool self sustainable is similar to a pyramid scheme. I know, that sounds bad but in this case it's not
cleary
Also, I'll add, pool in general doesn't appeal to a younger generation.
#53 tennessee joe
Maybe it's time to think outside of the box.
Slasher
Respectability
kissed out
real problem. No viable fan base
336Robin
If Pool cannot make it on its own neither can an organization without members.
sixpack
pool needs to be organized so that there is massive structured participation with rewards for achievement.
336robin
Game where the players have to come with something trying to make a shot is exciting.
watchez
First and foremost - the person in charge of the money should not be a pool player.
#92 realkingcobra
I've read through all the responses posted so far and have come to one conclusion, no one gets the picture as to how to fix pool as a sport
.

When you read all of these ideas in short clips....it's fun.
 
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You guys shouldn't focus on snooker champions who left for pool.
You should focus on snooker wannabe and never were's who left snooker, (which has way more money in it) for pool, (which has none) relatively speaking.
And why.

My thoughts immediately go to which has more regulations and drug testing, and who wants to skirt that.

Anyway, now that that's settled, back to some more productive talk.
 
vjmehra said:
Steve Davis retired from snooker this year for reference.

He played a bit of 9-Ball, but never switched.
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He was actually fairly active in 9 ball from about 1995 to 2004. He competed in several World 9 Ball League championships, and played at the World 9 Ball Championships from 1999 to 2004.

I don't really call that a "dabble". Or "a bit" of 9 ball.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
He was actually fairly active in 9 ball from about 1995 to 2004. He competed in several World 9 Ball League championships, and played at the World 9 Ball Championships from 1999 to 2004.

I don't really call that a "dabble". Or "a bit" of 9 ball.
Click to expand...

He was still playing snooker full time.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
He was actually fairly active in 9 ball from about 1995 to 2004. He competed in several World 9 Ball League championships, and played at the World 9 Ball Championships from 1999 to 2004.

I don't really call that a "dabble". Or "a bit" of 9 ball.
Click to expand...

For him it was a dabble, he even admitted he never practised before a tournament (I presume that was slightly exaggerated).

He did relatively well, from what I recall, a couple of respectable performances in the World Championships when they were in Cardiff and obviously the famous win over Earl in the Mosconi Cup.

However at no point did he stop playing top level snooker and whilst most of us would not be able to come close to his achievements in pool, it was only because he was such an amazing cueist that he was able to do so, he never took it that seriously (well either that or if he did he prefers not to admit that for whatever reason...he is a keen poker player, so maybe he just shows his poker face ;-)
 
Johnnyt said:
Your opinion, not mine or a lot of others. Why do you think Snooker is on TV in the UK? Because they can bet on it. Same boring game as pool. Johnnyt
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As you know we have legalised gambling here on most things, perhaps because of this we don't have the same obsession with it as many on this forum!

You're absolutely correct to say there is a ton of money in snooker which comes from bookies, however before that it was the tobacco companies and in the future it may be something else.

In the UK (and perhaps China), snooker is a marketable product, people watch it for entertainment, some may have a bet, but if you banned betting on snooker the gap in funding from sponsorship would be filled by someone else.
 
First I would find what the target audience wants. I would hire a film crew to set up streaming at every table with a chat feature for each table. Viewing numbers and comments will tell you a lot about what people want to watch. I would allow players to have a banner for their sponsor. As long as its a competition the best players are going be in the money. Players need sponsors and those sponsors need exposure. Seems they will always be playing for their own money but that is OK for now. There is no quick fix. If 90% of the field are not good enough to consistently make it to the money. What can you do? Focus on the 10%. Maybe do like they do in Nascar (which I don't watch) and have points awarded and a big payout for the year end winner. Something to strive for and money brings attention to the tour. Control the FREE streaming. Hire someone that gives the fans what they want. What we get now is usually one table with matches viewers don't care to watch. Big match is on a table with no stream. Show a pop up about the players. Sponsors, where they are from, what cue they shoot with, tip, weight etc. All for the novice viewer just tuning in. Who has no idea who they are watching but enjoy watching pool and would like some background on the players to keep their interest. No sport is about the players. It's about making changes to increase the fan base. Please the fans and the players will get compensated later.
 
Island Drive said:
For fun I picked and inserted individual ideas starting from threads in the 30 then the last thread seemed to want to take a different course.
Here's some of YOUR thoughts:
#37 boogeyman
The IPT was indeed great.
#38 DaveM
$5 to be added to the yearly APA membership
#39 dardusm
I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel.
BRussell
Focus on the investors and promoters making money
Fuji-whopper
In the US you get looked down upon, thought of as a hopeless gambler and are constantly compared to (and losing to) a large pizza.
Tramp Steamer
Take the best parts of the WPBA, for instance, and use that as a start point. Throw out the parts that didn't work.
JCIN
Honestly though if I had half a million burning a hole in my pocket I would look to just about everyone in the U.S. pool industry for what not to do. I include myself in that group. At the end of the day no one in it has figured out the answer
Positively Ralf
I think it would be easier to put together something long lasting for amateurs than it would be for pros
JoeyA
he is the wellspring from whence visionary ideas could be found.
NYC cue dude
It's not individual money that can revitalize the sport. It has to be a systemic change both on how pool is perceived by the masses and corporations
Fran crimi
One of the things that made the WPBA work so well was the cooperation of the players.
cleary
In my opinion, the only way to make pool self sustainable is similar to a pyramid scheme. I know, that sounds bad but in this case it's not
cleary
Also, I'll add, pool in general doesn't appeal to a younger generation.
#53 tennessee joe
Maybe it's time to think outside of the box.
Slasher
Respectability
kissed out
real problem. No viable fan base
336Robin
If Pool cannot make it on its own neither can an organization without members.
sixpack
pool needs to be organized so that there is massive structured participation with rewards for achievement.
336robin
Game where the players have to come with something trying to make a shot is exciting.
watchez
First and foremost - the person in charge of the money should not be a pool player.
#92 realkingcobra
I've read through all the responses posted so far and have come to one conclusion, no one gets the picture as to how to fix pool as a sport
.

When you read all of these ideas in short clips....it's fun.
Click to expand...

Thanks for compiling these comments. Good comments on managing a product. What's missing is the product.

What do you (AZB people) want to see?

How do you want it presented to you?

What do you think would capture the attention of young viewers?

I think people on here have the answer, it just needs to be put together. Talking about managing players, money, behavior and other higher manager functions is a bit useless without a clearly defined product.

I just read through 170 posts from people who adore the game. Most the posts were not constructive. This is a chance to get your opinions in on the front end. Why do you think that someone who figured out how to make enough money to do this needs a pool player's help managing a company?

Please give constructive ideas. RKC might rub people wrong, but he (In a round about way) not only gave an idea, but produced a product. I'm with Robin who is a man attempting to run a business and sell products the American way, hard work from the bottom. He know's to listen to everything, sometimes the package it was delivered in is ugly. BeiberLvr gave his ideas too. Why waste effort belittling other's opinions?

What way could pool be packaged and be sold to the public? How do you present this thing?
 
Social media = work

It is my belief that more professional pool players need to pay more attention to how they are perceived by the public.

Rodney Morris has established himself as a very popular player to watch and root for. Rodney has utilized social media by putting his real self out there for the public to see. The public likes what it sees and can't get enough of him. Rodney even invites his fans to walk up to him and say hi at major pool events. He takes stands on sensitive issues and when people zealously disagree with him, he simply replies with more of the same, making it comical in perspective. I haven't always been a Rodney Morris fan but with social media I have come to know him from many different perspectives.

North American pool players need to advertise their personalities and capitalize on them. Like others have mentioned, some players have an attraction because they are despised for their behavior. Some players act narcissistic even when they haven't got a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out but that's ok too. Some fans enjoy hating on particular athletes for various reasons and it is for that reason that those people with the negative personalities should attempt to develop that negativity until it becomes a social phenomena that others just can't wait to see.

Earl Strickland comes to mind with some of his eccentricities and he may be one of the most sought after pro players alive. Earl gets offers to travel all over the world. He has branded himself and the public is interested.

The downside to all of this is that some pro players don't see the benefit to working social media and seldom post about anything. This is where "out of sight, out of mind" comes into play. As far as I can see, it is a laziness on most of the players side in not participating in social media.

Shane Van Boening continues to rock the pool world not only through his winning ways but through social media. If you follow Shane you will see that he keeps his fans in the loop by posting regularly on social media. He doesn't always respond to the questions or replies but he is out there keeping the public interested in what he is doing whether it is ice fishing in South Dakota or sunning himself on some tropical beach.

Unfortunately, working social media is work and the fans want constant stimulation but many pro players don't see the value in it.

Every pro player should have a BIO describing his or her own idiosyncrasies, warts and all. If pro players don't have the skills to design an attractive BIO, there are volunteers all over the world who would love the opportunity to work with the pro players to enhance their public image.

When a pro player goes to a major event, he or she should already have a "PRESS SHEET" printed out and given to the live streamer so that the UP TO DATE information can be shared by the commentators.

SOCIAL MEDIA = WORK (And some don't think they want to invest in themselves.....sad).


How you are perceived by the public is almost as important as how you perform on the table.

JoeyA
 
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