Another video to add to my Watch Later list, and with a great sjm cameo appearance.
Thanks,
Dave
Analysis of the GREATEST POOL MATCH of All Time – Sigel vs. Varner
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
Another video to add to my Watch Later list, and with a great sjm cameo appearance.
Thanks,
Dave
That would be my definition, too! On that basis, the two best matches in my book are Reyes-Rempe 1996 PBT 9-ball and Archer-Rempe Sands XIV. Both players in both matches are trading punches and shooting c.950 TPA. And there is plenty of drama too!
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Thank you for the recommendations!
This one -
I’m not sure you will be able to find Archer-Rempe as Accu-Stats have never got round to converting it to DVD. I’m selling my tape with a DVD backup copy if anyone’s interested (the conversion was done by a specialist shop so the quality is pretty good considering the age of the footage)
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i think the four-railer was there though. but mike was clearly not paying the shot full attention. it is a great match that has everything.
my favourite match is earl's world championship win in cardiff 2002 against bustie. i think the year before he played steve davis in the quarter, in another legendary match. very hostile crowd but earl brings it. my other suggestions to the greatest matches would probably mostly be confined to the diamond table era (or current era) as i think we are truly watching greater pool now than ever before.
my favourite match is earl's world championship win in cardiff 2002 against bustie. i think the year before he played steve davis in the quarter, in another legendary match. very hostile crowd but earl brings it. my other suggestions to the greatest matches would probably mostly be confined to the diamond table era (or current era) as i think we are truly watching greater pool now than ever before.
that was a great match, but quite nervy if my memory serves me right. kuo "the little devil" had gone deep the previous years but choked a bit in this match. of course winning the worlds at 16 years is unsurpassed, wu is one of the greats. wu probably would have won more if it wasn't for his cancer and other personal issues. the filler - wu match in the US open was also very memorable.
Dr. Dave, I really enjoyed your analysis. I watched the match in it's entirety not long ago.
My big question? How did these guys play so well without goves and carbon fiber low deflection cues?
Nick's comeback has to be one of the best of all time. Also, loved the non pc comments. I've reached the age where I now believe the world has gone bass ackwards.
My big question? How did these guys play so well without goves and carbon fiber low deflection cues?
Nick's comeback has to be one of the best of all time. Also, loved the non pc comments. I've reached the age where I now believe the world has gone bass ackwards.
Well said. It's often discussed on the forum what it is that make a match worthy of being called great. Two of the criteria often cited are a) the "size of the moment", meaning how important the match was and b) whether the match represented a big moment in the career of a player that went on to be legendary. This match qualified on both counts. Do these attributes necessarily make a match great? Perhaps not, for beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
For example, the final of the China Open in 2019 between Wu and Raga, also a double hill affair, was probably a better match than this one, and it also occurred at a very big moment, but, at least for me, it's not nearly as memorable as when Wu beat Kuo in 2005.
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The 4-railer was possible, but the 2-rail bank also went, as I demonstrated.
Thank you for the suggestions.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks.
I great player can learn to play well with any equipment. Having said that, LD shaft still offer advantages.
Whatever one thinks about the "non-PC" comments, they are still hilarious.
I was there Dave and I couldn't believe what I witnessed in that hill-hill game. I don't think Nick ever missed an easier match winning shot like that before or after, and what Sigel did afterwards defies description. He basically lost his mind momentarily. Like you diagrammed on here, I could immediately see that he had safety options, that would leave the cue ball down table and a very difficult shot for Nick. Mike basically gave up when he fired that shot at warp speed. What I'm left with is that Nick and Mike were close friends and it's entirely possible they were splitting first and second place money right down the middle, so only the trophy was on the line. This might account for Nick's careless execution of his shot and Mike's half hearted attempt afterwards.
Jay, thank you for your perspective. Definitely a comeback, amazing shot sequence, and ending for the ages.
This was the match that shaped my life.
I was 14 and in love with pool. After watching this I wanted to be just like Nick. It may not technically be the greatest match ever played or the greatest comeback ever, but it was the first of it's kind I saw and it made a profound difference in my life.
As for the last shot, Mike just rattled plain and simple. Look at how he played in the beginning. After leaking away the lead he seemed rushed and made more errors in the last few at bats than in the first 10 racks he won. This happens sometimes. I just played a guy a race to 7. I ran the first two off the break and played nearly flawless to get up 6-0. I dry broke and he ran the table. Just that shook me. He was still fighting. I admit I was thinking it was over and wasn't really prepared for it. Oh, I knew better in my head, but I still felt pressure all of a sudden. Like surely this can't slip away, right? I tried to course correct but it is hard in the moment. I managed to finish the set off 7-4 but I blew a few chances. Against a player like Nick I might have lost.
Pool is a very hard game and the pressure affects everyone. Never underestimate how things can turn around for you, your opponent, and the rolls, if you hang in and send a message that you aren't backing down. When I'm down I just try to make one hard shot. If I can make one hard shot sometimes it all swings the other way. Just one. Easy to feel daunted when thinking about 9 games. But when Nick got through that one rack it all turned around. Yes, he needed Mike to dog it too. But that can happen when you put some heat on and stare at him. Be like Nick!!!
I'm guessing the match you're talking about doing next is the hill-hill with Efren and Earl with the Z-kick.
Thanks Dr. D. You da man!
I was 14 and in love with pool. After watching this I wanted to be just like Nick. It may not technically be the greatest match ever played or the greatest comeback ever, but it was the first of it's kind I saw and it made a profound difference in my life.
As for the last shot, Mike just rattled plain and simple. Look at how he played in the beginning. After leaking away the lead he seemed rushed and made more errors in the last few at bats than in the first 10 racks he won. This happens sometimes. I just played a guy a race to 7. I ran the first two off the break and played nearly flawless to get up 6-0. I dry broke and he ran the table. Just that shook me. He was still fighting. I admit I was thinking it was over and wasn't really prepared for it. Oh, I knew better in my head, but I still felt pressure all of a sudden. Like surely this can't slip away, right? I tried to course correct but it is hard in the moment. I managed to finish the set off 7-4 but I blew a few chances. Against a player like Nick I might have lost.
Pool is a very hard game and the pressure affects everyone. Never underestimate how things can turn around for you, your opponent, and the rolls, if you hang in and send a message that you aren't backing down. When I'm down I just try to make one hard shot. If I can make one hard shot sometimes it all swings the other way. Just one. Easy to feel daunted when thinking about 9 games. But when Nick got through that one rack it all turned around. Yes, he needed Mike to dog it too. But that can happen when you put some heat on and stare at him. Be like Nick!!!
I'm guessing the match you're talking about doing next is the hill-hill with Efren and Earl with the Z-kick.
Thanks Dr. D. You da man!
Could be a chop Jay, but if there wasn't so much pressure it's hard to think Mike would've played so hard in the first half and wilted so hard the second. And chop or no it was clear they both wanted this one and played their hearts out. The US Open title means a ton to both of them. I think it was just a result of Nicky bringing some serious heat. When you take a guy's knock out punch and don't flinch it can strike fear into the hearts of giants!
I'm guessing the match you're talking about doing next is the hill-hill with Efren and Earl with the Z-kick.
Bingo! Then the Color of Money match.
You're welcome, and thanks.
Well stated.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
I think Jay may be on to something, I saw something similar in a Davenport/Varner finals at the Sands during the late nineties. It was clear to most people watching that Davenport laid down in that final to let Nick win and most likely they split the winnings in some manner. If was so obvious that this guy that was sitting next me turned and said “this is despicable!’ Sadly these things occur even from our most respected players.
How can you differentiate a player who is dumping versus one who is simply wilting under pressure?
Until you can answer that 100% correctly, and I don't believe any of us can, I tend to believe we shouldn't make these accusations.
Also, there is a big difference between a savor and a dump. I can believe that many top pros make savers. Most don't dump matches.
D Man, a "saver" in a final match may well be a 50-50 split of the money. With no pressure, both players may play well and look like they are trying to win. It might be indistinguishable from a straight up match, even for a trained observer. Although how they react when the match is over can be telling as well. On the other hand, "dumps" often get ugly, with the player who is supposed to win struggling to make balls and looking like he's out of stroke. And the player who is dumping being forced to miss all kinds of shots to let his opponent win. A player who is wilting under pressure will react differently than a player who is dumping. That one is harder to define but has a lot to do with what is going on in their head at the moment. A player who is dumping might appear a little angry or disgusted at the player who should be winning easily, and a player who is wilting under pressure will show exasperation and inner torment at their own bad playing. I've seen both of these scenarios more than a few times. That said, you are right. You can never be 100% sure of what you are seeing, but sometimes you can just smell it.
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