Another Bizarre Dennis Moment vs Shane

[Inaction]

An opportunity for a Swiss Army cue? If a feature is intentionally built into the cue, would these features then be considered to be an intended use?

Markings on the cue that are the same as a ball's diameter. Other markings that make it easy to find the midpoint of two points. Sort of like a slide rule.

 

[(((Satori)))]

the

For some reason, the wording that explicitly forbids using out-of-play balls to measure distance isn't copied/pasted into the WPA rulebook. But the BCA ruleset (which is where the WPA ruleset originally was copy and pasted) still has it:

http://bca-pool.com/general/custom.asp?page=55

1.3 USE OF EQUIPMENT
Players may not use equipment or accessory items for purposes or in a manner other than those for which the items were intended (refer to rules 3.42 and 3.43). For example, powder containers, chalk cubes, etc., may not be used to prop up a mechanical bridge (or natural hand bridge); no more than two mechanical bridges may be used at one time, nor may they be used to support anything other than the cue shaft. Extra or out-of-play balls may not be used by players to check clearance or for any other reason (except to lag for break); the triangle may be employed to ascertain whether a ball is in the rack when a match is unofficiated and the table has not been pencil marked around the triangle area. (Also see Rule 2.3)

2.15 INAPPROPRIATE USE OF EQUIPMENT
The referee should be alert for a player using equipment or accessory items for purposes or in a manner other than those for which they were intended, or for the use of illegal equipment, as defined under “equipment specification”. Generally no penalty is applied. However, should a player persist in such activity or use of such equipment, after having been advised that such activity or use is not permissible, the referee or other tournament official may take action as appropriate under the provisions of “Unsportsmanlike Conduct” (Also see Rule 1.3 and Rule 1.4)

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Reading these both, it reads as if a warning should have been given, not a foul.

It's still bizarre for Dennis, but it looks like he go the worst of it.

What rules were they using in this tournament?

 

[SUPERSTAR]

If he can't understand the rules maybe he should stay the hell home.

Um. Maybe people should be a little more tolerant and understandng of cultural differences.
If he didn't affect the layout, what difference does it make?

Was it specificaly addressed in the players meeting? Cause i'm willing to bet that everyone on this forum doesn't have every single rule from every different version of the rulebook, committed to memory.

 

[Johnnyt]

Um. Maybe people should be a little more tolerant and understandng of cultural differences.
If he didn't affect the layout, what difference does it make?

Was it specificaly addressed in the players meeting? Cause i'm willing to bet that everyone on this forum doesn't have every single rule from every different version of the rulebook, committed to memory.

What notebook? Every FN tournament is different.

 

[Black-Balled]

Um. Maybe people should be a little more tolerant and understandng of cultural differences.
If he didn't affect the layout, what difference does it make?

Was it specificaly addressed in the players meeting? Cause i'm willing to bet that everyone on this forum doesn't have every single rule from every different version of the rulebook, committed to memory.

Where do you draw the line? Would it be ok for the opponent to stand at the table with his hands on the rail while the other guy shots?

Many other countries see that as normal.

 

[Bigdogbret]

Under CSI Rules it is very clear about using a ball to measure with...

Rule 1-3 (g) - You may only use your vision to judge whether the cue ball or an object ball will fit through a gap, or to judge what ball the cue ball would contact first. You may not use any ball, cue, rack, chalk cube, or any other equipment or other part of your body as a width-measuring device.

 

[Apocalypse2017]

Where do you draw the line? Would it be ok for the opponent to stand at the table with his hands on the rail while the other guy shots?

Which guy is taking shots?

 

[smashmouth]

Dennis seems kinda suspect, I've seen/heard/read a few things now that would not raise alarms as isolated incidents, but cumulatively........
hmmmmmmmm

 

[Black-Balled]

Which guy is taking shots?

depends who's shot!?

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Where do you draw the line? Would it be ok for the opponent to stand at the table with his hands on the rail while the other guy shots?

Many other countries see that as normal.

When i was in Hawaii, you had people gambling, climbing on tables. So much for one foot on the floor.

Personally, i don't care what someone does to measure something as long as the balls aren't moved.
Ive been in matches where people used an extra ball to see if a ball would squeeze by an impeding ball and the rail and didn't care...cause i was also kind of curious to see if it went by so i would know what to expect.
Most of the time the guy smashed right into the impeding ball anyway.

As for people standing around the table making all sorts of noise...
Stab them.

 

[smashmouth]

once in the finals of a local house tourney, we were hil hill and my opponent was on the nine ball for the match

it was a tough shot, he duplicated the shot on the next table and took a stab at it, lol
I don't remember the outcome

 

[HawaiianEye]

When i was in Hawaii, you had people gambling, climbing on tables. So much for one foot on the floor.

They STILL do.

Very few matches are played where a player must keep one foot on the floor.

FWIW, I don't play that way.

Aloha

 

[Nostroke]

For some reason, the wording that explicitly forbids using out-of-play balls to measure distance isn't copied/pasted into the WPA rulebook. But the BCA ruleset (which is where the WPA ruleset originally was copy and pasted) still has it:

http://bca-pool.com/general/custom.asp?page=55

1.3 USE OF EQUIPMENT
Players may not use equipment or accessory items for purposes or in a manner other than those for which the items were intended (refer to rules 3.42 and 3.43). For example, powder containers, chalk cubes, etc., may not be used to prop up a mechanical bridge (or natural hand bridge); no more than two mechanical bridges may be used at one time, nor may they be used to support anything other than the cue shaft. Extra or out-of-play balls may not be used by players to check clearance or for any other reason (except to lag for break); the triangle may be employed to ascertain whether a ball is in the rack when a match is unofficiated and the table has not been pencil marked around the triangle area. (Also see Rule 2.3)

2.15 INAPPROPRIATE USE OF EQUIPMENT
The referee should be alert for a player using equipment or accessory items for purposes or in a manner other than those for which they were intended, or for the use of illegal equipment, as defined under “equipment specification”. Generally no penalty is applied. However, should a player persist in such activity or use of such equipment, after having been advised that such activity or use is not permissible, the referee or other tournament official may take action as appropriate under the provisions of “Unsportsmanlike Conduct” (Also see Rule 1.3 and Rule 1.4)

---------------------

Reading these both, it reads as if a warning should have been given, not a foul.

It's still bizarre for Dennis, but it looks like he go the worst of it.

That can be read differently. I believe-1.3 specifically forbids the measuring with a ball and thus a foul.

2:15 seems to address things in general-other things i think

Id have to read the entire set of rules to be sure but im too lazy to that now. It's just me sense it's a foul under 1:3

other folks keep in mind they weren't using bca rules but wpa rules where the above is not shown whether it be inadvertent or not.

 

[Bob Jewett]

That can be read differently. I believe-1.3 specifically forbids the measuring with a ball and thus a foul.

2:15 seems to address things in general-other things i think

Id have to read the entire set of rules to be sure but im too lazy to that now. It's just me sense it's a foul under 1:3

other folks keep in mind they weren't using bca rules but wpa rules where the above is not shown whether it be inadvertent or not.

All fouls are listed (or should be listed) in Section 6. If a foul is going to be called, it needs to be either under touching a ball or unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

[3RAILKICK]

Spotting balls

If already discussed: disregard.

If not, consider:

How does one measure if a ball will spot on or below the spot? Whether there is room. Is there a different rule, so the ob can be used to measure, including touching another ball without penalty while trying to find it a proper home?



ps: recent post of match Filmos/Vilmos? vs a young Asian player where the kid had to jump on top of a surrounded ball to avoid 3 fouls...At one point he used the cb in hand to measure a possible opening to the hidden ball along the rail.


Referee Michaela didn't call a foul.??????

Is there enough inconsistency in rules or application of rules to create confusion at the Pro level?

 

[arps]

They do stuff like this in the Philippines. Dennis needs to know that he can't do it here or just about anywhere else. This time he is the one in the wrong. I will tell him myself.

yeah, i've seen people here do stuff like that. they'd get a ball (one that's already inside the pocket or 11-15), then check if a ball passes a gap/space between balls for example. i guess dennis didnt know it was a foul.