Any shrinks in here?
- Thread starter poolchic
- Start date
I argue that losing to a slightly better players does indeed make you better...but if someone is say three balls better than you, all it will do is hurt your feelings. The BS about paying your dues or paying for lessons is just a bunch of hogwash. If you are outgunned, you will learn nothing but how to throw money out the window...and I can do that easier at a casino and have more fun than giving it to some pool hustler.
Just an opinion...
Just an opinion...
Not in and of itself. But it MAY make you better if:poolchic said:Does losing to better players make you better.... really?
1) you are paying attention to how the better player moves his/her cue ball around the table
2) it causes you to raise your standards regarding what is an acceptable level of play
3) the better player takes the time to give you a few pointers
4) it motivates you to work on your game
Now that "if" is a really BIG "if!" All of us old timers know players who have played for years without improving one bit, whether they played better players or not.
gpeezy
for sale!
Its not the losing
Its not losing to better players that makes you better its the experience. You can't learn form people you can beat. You'll see players from town that they all play the same. Reason being they haven't played anyone they could learn from. One thing to remember is that when playina a better player, your want to win but you want to learn from them more. That one reason why I like the regional tournaments. Its the cheapest way to play a great player. If you are playing even maybe a tad behind the players around you. Its time to move on. You have to keep challenging yourself in pool other wise you will never know what you can do.
Its not losing to better players that makes you better its the experience. You can't learn form people you can beat. You'll see players from town that they all play the same. Reason being they haven't played anyone they could learn from. One thing to remember is that when playina a better player, your want to win but you want to learn from them more. That one reason why I like the regional tournaments. Its the cheapest way to play a great player. If you are playing even maybe a tad behind the players around you. Its time to move on. You have to keep challenging yourself in pool other wise you will never know what you can do.
starting over
Its simple if ya want to golf at pro level- take lessons from the house pro and read. If ya want to drive race cars -- If you want to be a doc, nurse etc,etc,etc you learn from text bks, and take quality lesssons. Just because some people can play doesn't mean they can teach. There is one bk called Pleasures of small Motions, Mastering the Mental Game of Pocket Billiards. By Bob Fancher, Ph.D Read it until you understand it. You will have to throw all thoughts and conceptions other people use from tennis poker and all other sports--Knowthing is like playing pool --and who knows how our minds work. And finally 1 person is qualified and writes columns for Billiards Digest About pool. There is on the job training. This being said there is only one way to know what it is like to play in the us open. Play in the open. Set your goal as high as you can Being good at pool is like going to the olympics what are your chances with out cross training swimming, diet that helps your vision, and quality practice that takes you out of the comfort zone. And I won't charge you for the advise it'll take yrs to learn.
Its simple if ya want to golf at pro level- take lessons from the house pro and read. If ya want to drive race cars -- If you want to be a doc, nurse etc,etc,etc you learn from text bks, and take quality lesssons. Just because some people can play doesn't mean they can teach. There is one bk called Pleasures of small Motions, Mastering the Mental Game of Pocket Billiards. By Bob Fancher, Ph.D Read it until you understand it. You will have to throw all thoughts and conceptions other people use from tennis poker and all other sports--Knowthing is like playing pool --and who knows how our minds work. And finally 1 person is qualified and writes columns for Billiards Digest About pool. There is on the job training. This being said there is only one way to know what it is like to play in the us open. Play in the open. Set your goal as high as you can Being good at pool is like going to the olympics what are your chances with out cross training swimming, diet that helps your vision, and quality practice that takes you out of the comfort zone. And I won't charge you for the advise it'll take yrs to learn.
I think that we can (but don't always) learn from any experience. Some are better than others and it depends on what you take from the experience.
In general the best way to become a better player is to practice. We learn the most and the best when we are rewarded for our best (most accurate) play. In practice and in a match the primary idea is to make most (85%) of your shots and emphasize / remember the things you did right.
If playing against a better player helps you concentrate (pay attention) better then this is beneficial.
Oh -- I am a shrink
In general the best way to become a better player is to practice. We learn the most and the best when we are rewarded for our best (most accurate) play. In practice and in a match the primary idea is to make most (85%) of your shots and emphasize / remember the things you did right.
If playing against a better player helps you concentrate (pay attention) better then this is beneficial.
Oh -- I am a shrink
Yes
and
no.
and
no.
Yes, it does
and here is why I think so:
Because you realize just how naive, dumb, or how poor you are at the game, it pisses you off, and you apply yourself much harder in the future. It becomes a motivating driving factor for you to get better. Gambling at the game puts this into its rawest form, plus you don't eat for 3 days.
And shrinks are not concerned with your detail mental state, only with your overall mental state, and prescribing drugs for you to take to maintain it.
Psychologists are the ones that delve into your detail mental aspects, and only if you tell them to begin with. Personally, I never tell a psychologist anything that could be subpeoned by the court.
and here is why I think so:
Because you realize just how naive, dumb, or how poor you are at the game, it pisses you off, and you apply yourself much harder in the future. It becomes a motivating driving factor for you to get better. Gambling at the game puts this into its rawest form, plus you don't eat for 3 days.
And shrinks are not concerned with your detail mental state, only with your overall mental state, and prescribing drugs for you to take to maintain it.
Psychologists are the ones that delve into your detail mental aspects, and only if you tell them to begin with. Personally, I never tell a psychologist anything that could be subpeoned by the court.
derk70 said:
If so, how will you ever get a game with a better player? By playing someone you can usually beat, you will solidify your knowledge by teaching (big part of learning), demonstrating, answering questions, and reinforcing your abilities. By playing an even player, you will get comfortable in the heat of competition. By playing better players, you will try harder, watch more, ask more questions, and raise your competitive comfort, so you will learn.
Absolutely not. Winning or loosing has nothing to do with learning. Playing and/or watching better players may contribute to a player getting better, but it has nothing to do with winning or loosing. Unfortunately, better players will beat you, which results in loosing...that's all.
poolchic said:Does losing to better players make you better.... really?
Play a better player 3x. Try your hardest. Then, go back and play someone your level (so you think). Chances are you, will beat them now.
You have to get used to shooting less often and making fewer mistakes when you do shoot. Only a better player can force you to do this.
Lots of good advice here. Yes, I think playing a better player helps because you know you have to raise your game. If you don't see that then you've already lost. Also, don't keep playing the same people. I got into that habit years ago until a friend told me I needed to play different opposition. That's what I love about tournament play, you get so many new faces & you don't know how they play. So I treat them all as a great player & try not to give them a chance. It may not always work but I'll always be giving my best.
Make friends with someone who is way better than you and match up with them for friendly, low stakes matches. Negotiate a spot that will put pressure on both of you. The idea is to raise the pressure so that both players benefit from the match. If playing 9 ball, instead of games, negotiate a spot in balls. One friend I play with on that basis gives me the 357 Magnum... The wild 3, 5 and 7, which don't count on the break if I make them. They spot up immediately after the break. We really go back and forth with this spot. It helps both our games, although I don't get to run out. It doesn't really matter, he plays jam up, and rarely leaves me an easy shot.
Try it, and when you figure out where your especially weak spots are, work on them. Then go back and play your friend again. Your game will definitely improve if you put effort into improving.
Flex
Try it, and when you figure out where your especially weak spots are, work on them. Then go back and play your friend again. Your game will definitely improve if you put effort into improving.
Flex
I have never been a great advocate of playing much stronger players, but playing against stronger players is definitely fundamental to development.
The metaphor I've always gone by is that the six minute miler gains little from trying to train with the four minute miler. After all, the four minute miler has no choice but to reduce their speed, while the six minute miler will still fail to even nearly keep up. This arrangmeent is bad for both of them. On the other hand, if the six minute miler trains with the 5:45 miler, the chance of improvement is much greater, as the goal of keeping up is a realistic one that can be accomplished by running a little better and a little smarter. in the end, the better miler may gain, too, needing to make similar advances to resume winning the race.
I believe the same thing happens when pool players of highly different skill levels hook up. For a "B" player, I'd say that watching a pro player playing against another pro player and taking notes will offer a much greater learning experience than playing against them, as the latter situation does not lend itself nearly as well to accumulating information about how a pro goes about his business.
The metaphor I've always gone by is that the six minute miler gains little from trying to train with the four minute miler. After all, the four minute miler has no choice but to reduce their speed, while the six minute miler will still fail to even nearly keep up. This arrangmeent is bad for both of them. On the other hand, if the six minute miler trains with the 5:45 miler, the chance of improvement is much greater, as the goal of keeping up is a realistic one that can be accomplished by running a little better and a little smarter. in the end, the better miler may gain, too, needing to make similar advances to resume winning the race.
I believe the same thing happens when pool players of highly different skill levels hook up. For a "B" player, I'd say that watching a pro player playing against another pro player and taking notes will offer a much greater learning experience than playing against them, as the latter situation does not lend itself nearly as well to accumulating information about how a pro goes about his business.
poolchic said:Does losing to better players make you better.... really?
It did for me (really).
Although it can be demoralizing, it forced me to solidify my game and improve my defensive game. Also, when you get good enough to win against someone you consider a better player, it is a big, big boost to your confidence.
Most of what I've learned about pool at an advanced level has come from playing my advanced level opponents.
Chris
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