PoolSleuth
Banned
Everytime I think it is learned it fools me again.
Anyone else driven KNUTS by the Diamond System?
Anyone else driven KNUTS by the Diamond System?
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Anyone Else Puzzled by the Diamond System of Kicking & Banking
- Thread starter PoolSleuth
- Start date
YOu can over-think anything. Just do it!
Whats the problem? As long as your aiming through the diamonds and not at the rails with a little running english and the same speed everytime it should work.
PoolSleuth
Banned
1pRoscoe said:
That is because you are a Natural, and maybe should Play in the IPT...LOL
I use the eyeball it and wish it well system....I think hitting the ball isn't much an issue but thinking you're going to make it is crazy talk...unless it's hanging in the pocket....
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nuth'n to tha diamond system
All you have to do is divide each diamond of distance into 64ths and cause the ball to hit the proper 64th. Then remember to consider hit speed, english, cloth and rail condition, humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, and the phase of the moon and you should be able to make almost any bank. Don't leave out the phase of the moon because it exerts different amounts of force on the balls in different phases!
Hu
All you have to do is divide each diamond of distance into 64ths and cause the ball to hit the proper 64th. Then remember to consider hit speed, english, cloth and rail condition, humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, and the phase of the moon and you should be able to make almost any bank. Don't leave out the phase of the moon because it exerts different amounts of force on the balls in different phases!
Hu
PoolSleuth said:
After watching the UPA tour championship on ESPN, it seems like Charlie Bryant is on to something, some type of system.
I just eyeball it when kicking and I do fine, not great, but fine.
I just eyeball it when kicking and I do fine, not great, but fine.
DIamond systems and other systems are guidelines.
To be able to execute them accurately and consistantly you need to practice them and become familiar to the adjustments required on different tables and at different speeds.
A good system should explain how to adjust to and adjust for the main variables involved. Unfortunately, most are just approximate guidelines that you have to work on to develop a reliable system.
To be able to execute them accurately and consistantly you need to practice them and become familiar to the adjustments required on different tables and at different speeds.
A good system should explain how to adjust to and adjust for the main variables involved. Unfortunately, most are just approximate guidelines that you have to work on to develop a reliable system.
Colin Colenso said:
tap, tap, tap, Colin. In addition, it helps to have a repeatable stroke too!
Bottom line is that every table is a little bit different, and A.S.S. (angle, speed & spin) account for the discrepancies in anyone's 'ability' to utilize the diamonds. Plus kicking the CB and banking an OB are totally different animals. Kicking can be learned fairly easily, including how to adjust to different conditions. Banking balls mutiple rails is much tougher, and takes a LOT of practice! I always tell students a cut is absolute and has but one variable...a bank is a guess, and has several variables that can go wrong.
You can learn to be a good guesser, by banking a LOT!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I have tried to depend on several different diamond and kicking systems, and the most important thing I've learned is that in general, most all of these systems are only guidlines for "what should happen if your cb strikes here." And most all of them work only to some degree. I've also found that if you take the 'feel/sense' out of the shot, and bear down and "hit here because all of my calculations say to" then the systems don't work. The three rail kick by placing the CB in the jaws of one corner pocket and going three rails to the corner pocket on the opposite side of the table for me, has been the base of almost all of my two/three rail kicks. I've found that if you can learn this kick pretty well, it can be used as a reference point to refer to when kicking different lines by making adjustments.
Too many times, the reason that diamond systems fail is becuase the player is probably expecting too much out of them. "The book says if I kick here, then the cb will go here." But if you line up your shot exactly like the book says, and believe in it blindly without any sense of your own feel and judgement, the systems won't work all the time.
Another thing to remember when refering to books and diagrams is that a half tip of running English gets a very wide variation of cb action from player to player. Some players hit low/hard/and left to get the cb to take a line that another player can accomplish with center/soft, and 1/2 left.
IMHO, systems can only be used as a starting point, or a guidline for initailly judging kicks, but eventually, the best thing to do is to eliminate the 'thinking' part of your pre-shot routine as quickly as possible, and switch to your 'feel/subcontious' mode well before you're down on your shot.
dave
Too many times, the reason that diamond systems fail is becuase the player is probably expecting too much out of them. "The book says if I kick here, then the cb will go here." But if you line up your shot exactly like the book says, and believe in it blindly without any sense of your own feel and judgement, the systems won't work all the time.
Another thing to remember when refering to books and diagrams is that a half tip of running English gets a very wide variation of cb action from player to player. Some players hit low/hard/and left to get the cb to take a line that another player can accomplish with center/soft, and 1/2 left.
IMHO, systems can only be used as a starting point, or a guidline for initailly judging kicks, but eventually, the best thing to do is to eliminate the 'thinking' part of your pre-shot routine as quickly as possible, and switch to your 'feel/subcontious' mode well before you're down on your shot.
dave
I'll agree that the systems are guidelines but if a table is set up to the 5 system then most kicking can be very accurate. The problems are many when studying the books. First and foremost nearly all pool tables play short. With clean balls and new cloth generally they'll play about 1/2 diamond short on a 3 rail kick. Then most pool halls complicate things by not cleaning the balls or cloth. This will shorten it even more sometimes as much as another diamond or more. I rarely play pool but did so the other day when out of town and tested a Gold Crown and it came in nearly 2 diamonds short. This is why it's so tough to duplicate these systems on the tables from the book.
My suggestion is find someone that can teach the basic systems then believe them. When you step to a table check out how it plays against what you know. Beware that most books do not tell you the adjustments that are required for them to work. So get a coach.
My suggestion is find someone that can teach the basic systems then believe them. When you step to a table check out how it plays against what you know. Beware that most books do not tell you the adjustments that are required for them to work. So get a coach.
PoolSleuth
Banned
Scott Lee said:
More GREAT Info.
it's always confusing as the diamonds r not placed exactly on the cushion edge
I like the fact that the diamonds are not on the rail, it QUADDRUPLES the amount of systems you can use!!!!
You can go:
1. through diamond to through diamond
2. through diamond to cushion edge
3. cushion edge to through diamond
4. cushion edge to cushion edge.
if it was setup different such as the cloth being dyed at diamond points or something, you'd lose the ability to accuratly switch between the 4 systems(you'd have to guess where the diamonds were)
I like the table the way it is
You can go:
1. through diamond to through diamond
2. through diamond to cushion edge
3. cushion edge to through diamond
4. cushion edge to cushion edge.
if it was setup different such as the cloth being dyed at diamond points or something, you'd lose the ability to accuratly switch between the 4 systems(you'd have to guess where the diamonds were)
I like the table the way it is