Anyone else think the requirement to rack solid-stripe-solid (US Open 8b) is goofy?

CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Corey just got warned for having solids on all 3 corners of the rack, and Ken S.
explained there's a rule in place where players are required to alternate solid-stripe-solid etc.
throughout the entire rack.

The reason is supposedly to prevent any sort of pattern racking.

Anyone aware of a pro using pattern racking in 8b?
Corey's soft breaking, but only because he hurt his shoulder.
Everyone else is crushing them which means there's no predictable outcome.
No pattern would give the same result from one break to the next.

I know a lot of players (even experienced ones) think this will guarantee an "even spread",
but common sense will tell you it doesn't, the balls have a million random interactions
and kisses and collisions, they're moving at different speeds, some travel 20 feet and others
go 8 inches... they don't just fan out in a perfect little starburst.

So what's the point? It's like they put a bar rule into the US Open.
 
CreeDo said:
Corey just got warned for having solids on all 3 corners of the rack, and Ken S.
explained there's a rule in place where players are required to alternate solid-stripe-solid etc.
throughout the entire rack.

The reason is supposedly to prevent any sort of pattern racking.

Anyone aware of a pro using pattern racking in 8b?
Corey's soft breaking, but only because he hurt his shoulder.
Everyone else is crushing them which means there's no predictable outcome.
No pattern would give the same result from one break to the next.

I know a lot of players (even experienced ones) think this will guarantee an "even spread",
but common sense will tell you it doesn't, the balls have a million random interactions
and kisses and collisions, they're moving at different speeds, some travel 20 feet and others
go 8 inches... they don't just fan out in a perfect little starburst.

So what's the point? It's like they put a bar rule into the US Open.
Click to expand...

I think goofy pretty much covers it! :thumbup:
 
I think it's fine. Same rack for everyone. But what irritates me is that I don't think players should ever have to rack for themselves at the pro level. I think every pro match should have a referee who racks.
 
WPA 8 ball rules require that the two lower corner balls in the rack must be one solid and one stripe. I think BCAPL the same
 
It's the dumbest, most nitty, rule ever! I get called on it a lot.... Every single time I get called on it I want to blow a gasket. Nits.....
 
I guess the purpose of the rule is because the two back corner balls are the most likely to fly around the table and go in somewhere and don't want both to be the same.

For me it's not hard to remember to put one solid and one stripe in those positions. We even do it when playing with my wife at home. Call all fouls too.
 
I think the idea of putting a stripe on one corner and a solid on the other is the way it should be done. I LMAO watching people trying to get the stripe- solid rack in order.---Smitty
 
GADawg said:
WPA 8 ball rules require that the two lower corner balls in the rack must be one solid and one stripe. I think BCAPL the same
Click to expand...

GADawg said:
I guess the purpose of the rule is because the two back corner balls are the most likely to fly around the table and go in somewhere and don't want both to be the same.

For me it's not hard to remember to put one solid and one stripe in those positions. We even do it when playing with my wife at home. Call all fouls too.
Click to expand...

Harold Smith said:
I think the idea of putting a stripe on one corner and a solid on the other is the way it should be done. I LMAO watching people trying to get the stripe- solid rack in order.---Smitty
Click to expand...

^^^ This (or "these"). Even in most 8-ball leagues -- the most commonly played league game is 8-ball -- this rule is the same. The two corner balls (in the back row) must be different ball categories; a stripe in one corner, a solid in the other. And of course, the 8-ball is smack-dab in the middle of the rack (goes without saying). It's considered good practice (but not mandatory) that the rest of the balls will alternate around the rack; which means you'll have an equal instance in the rack where two stripes are together and two solids are together.

The point of the different categoried corners in the back row, is because these two balls have a tendency to go a couple rails back up to one of the head-row corner pockets, and we'd want an equal chance for either category of balls a shot at those pockets. Or worded differently, we don't want just one category to be lop-sided in commandeering those banking lanes to those pockets. Or worded even more differently, we want parity in the rack. A strictly-alternated border in the rack (stripe, solid, stripe, solid, ...etc. all the way around the rack) does NOT offer parity.

-Sean
 
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It doesn't seem that difficult to me, so I'm sorry that I don't see your point, CreeDo.

And one would think that of all people, Corey would know what you're supposed to do with a rack. Odds are if he wants to do it a certain way, there is likely a reason for it. Conversely, if he doesn't want them in solid/stripe order, there must be a reason for it.

Or he could just do it because he's supposed to.
 
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the recent efren vs svb match on TAR, efren had screwed up the 8 ball racking a few times. shane pointed it out to efren at least a couple of times.
 
If it wasn't clear, I have no problem at all with stripe in one corner, solid in the other.
That's the age-old rule used by leagues and tournaments. I do that myself.

What I think is dumb is having to alternate all 15 balls.

It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the rack.
You don't want people making the rules, if they don't understand what's happening on the pool table!
 
I kinda do it when I rack 8-ball anyway, just to spread them out well. I suppose it's possible to have all stripes on one side and all solids on the other, but it's not clear to me whether that would be an advantage or a disadvantage. It's a simple, easy solution to a problem that probably doesn't exist.
 
I very, very seldom play 8 ball anymore but I seem to remember doing this years ago when I first learned to play and always doing it that way thereafter. I don't see what the big deal is. As with a lot of things with this game, it's all about what you're used to.
 
I've always racked solid/strip/solid/stripe, with swapping a corner ball to have a stripe/solid as well.

On top of that, I always put the 1 at the front. Not sure why, just a habit. Probably because the 1 goes up top for the other games as well.

Except in 1p or straight pool of course.
 
I've racked 8b that way my entire life, alternating all the balls. It takes about ten seconds to do.

Does it make one bit of difference? Maybe not but as BRussell points out, suppose you want to rack all stripes to the left and all solids to the right? Would that make any difference in how they lay after the break? Again, still maybe not.

Could just be psychological - I'll keep doing it, though. :)

best,
brian kc
 
I also rack in an alternating stripe/solid format. When you're used to it, it takes no more than an extra 3-5 seconds. I do it more out of habit than any attempt to assure an even distribution after the break, because an 8-ball breaks seems completely random to me.

But consider that I think this is interesting: the mathmatically correct 8-ball rack - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQBeWCFsvtg

Not saying that I disagree with Jimmy Reid (since he has a little more experience than me) but I think his theory here is tenuous at best.
 
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DoubleD said:
Does anybody else realize that an alternating rack is impossible? You are guaranteed to have either: 1. Two of one type touching each other; or 2. All three corners the same.
Click to expand...
I think everyone understands that. The rule is to alternate as much as possible and to have different groups on the corners. "As much as possible" means that there will be two non-alternations.
 
WPO rules:
break (See Regulation 15, Subsequent Break Shots.)

3.2 Eight Ball Rack
The fifteen object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangle, with the apex ball on the foot spot and the eight ball as the first ball that is directly below the apex ball. One from each group of seven will be on the two lower corners of the triangle. The other balls are placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern.

eight ball rack
Eight Ball Rack
 
CreeDo said:
Corey just got warned for having solids on all 3 corners of the rack, and Ken S. explained there's a rule in place where players are required to alternate solid-stripe-solid etc. throughout the entire rack.
...
Click to expand...
I would have thought that they would use the BCAPL racking rules. They are below. Are you sure they were not using those rules?

2-2 8-Ball Rack
The balls are racked as follows (see Figure 2-1):
a. in a triangle with the apex ball on the foot spot (AR p. 78);
b. the rows behind the apex are parallel to the foot string;
c. the 8-ball is in the middle of the row of three balls;
d. the remaining balls are placed at random, except that the ball at each rear
corner of the rack must be of a different group from the other rear corner
(left/right orientation those two balls does not matter). (AR p. 96)​
 
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