APA equipment really puts the "Amature" in APA

[KMRUNOUT]

I think we forget how excited we were to earn our first patch. I play to win. Most of my competitors play to have fun. Who is to say which of us is right?

Lyn

Lyn,

Good point. I think winning is fun. I think playing my best is fun. If I play my best, I win more than I lose. I do remember back when I broke and ran my first rack practicing by myself, and how stoked I was when I finally did it in the league. I must say I wish I remembered the patches while I was out in Vegas, because I do like collecting them and the national ones are kinda cool. Maybe I can have them mail me some lol.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

To KM:

When I said you were whining, I wasn't calling you a whiner. My son whines, my wife whines. Hell, you should have heard me whining after a 4 ran a rack and a half at league last night to beat us in 9-ball playoffs. I was just saying rise above the excuses. You play in a recreational league. Half the bars I had to play in had oversized cueballs. Most of the APA regular season play is on the barbox, with heavy cue balls. So, I think they are being more than fair with their equipment choices. And, it's also tough having missed qualifying for Vegas by 2 balls (our team), and then read a post about a guy that was peeved about the equipment setup at the national event. Some of us would have been happy just to be there - to hear someone who didn't appreciate it makes me think if my team had have gone instead of yours, we may have had a better time.

It's not always about you. I have to say this to my wife and son daily.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

To KM:

When I said you were whining, I wasn't calling you a whiner. My son whines, my wife whines. Hell, you should have heard me whining after a 4 ran a rack and a half at league last night to beat us in 9-ball playoffs. I was just saying rise above the excuses. You play in a recreational league. Half the bars I had to play in had oversized cueballs. Most of the APA regular season play is on the barbox, with heavy cue balls. So, I think they are being more than fair with their equipment choices. And, it's also tough having missed qualifying for Vegas by 2 balls (our team), and then read a post about a guy that was peeved about the equipment setup at the national event. Some of us would have been happy just to be there - to hear someone who didn't appreciate it makes me think if my team had have gone instead of yours, we may have had a better time.

It's not always about you. I have to say this to my wife and son daily.

Shawn,

This post sounds more like the Shawn Armstrong posts I'm used to. I hear ya. I guess it is a little bit lame to get the free trip and all and then complain about it. Still, since this was my post, it kinda is all about me :grin: I basically was posting my thoughts on the situation to see what other people think. Since you've explained your circumstances, I can see how that might be irritating to hear. Still, look at it from my perspective: I've spent 12 years in the APA. I've been the team captain for about 10 of those. I've dealt with every manner of whining, drunkenness, total irresponsibility, total mental breakdowns, all sorts of awful equipment...you get the idea. To finally get a team of adults together that played well enough to make it to the big show, and then to have it be less than perfect, was a bit of a let down. It kinda made me say "what have I been wasting all this time for". You know what I mean? I generally am a glass 1/2 full kinda guy, but I will make sure to investigate ways to get the glass to be more full. I prefer better to worse.

Thanks again for the thoughts. I appreciate the other perspective.

KMRUNOUT

 

[mongoose-]

Ha ha...yeah, I think I have a large bucket somewhere full of patches. Hey...I didn't notice...did they have a 9 ball break and run patch for masters? I got a couple of those...

KMRUNOUT

Not that I know of they didn't when I was there in 06. But who knows now they very possibly may. THough I didn't see much given out at the masters event in the form of posters, patches etc at that time I'm sure that level would love a bucket of those things to sell for a dime a piece. :wink:

 

[mongoose-]

Shawn,

This post sounds more like the Shawn Armstrong posts I'm used to. I hear ya. I guess it is a little bit lame to get the free trip and all and then complain about it. Still, since this was my post, it kinda is all about me :grin: I basically was posting my thoughts on the situation to see what other people think. Since you've explained your circumstances, I can see how that might be irritating to hear. Still, look at it from my perspective: I've spent 12 years in the APA. I've been the team captain for about 10 of those. I've dealt with every manner of whining, drunkenness, total irresponsibility, total mental breakdowns, all sorts of awful equipment...you get the idea. To finally get a team of adults together that played well enough to make it to the big show, and then to have it be less than perfect, was a bit of a let down. It kinda made me say "what have I been wasting all this time for". You know what I mean? I generally am a glass 1/2 full kinda guy, but I will make sure to investigate ways to get the glass to be more full. I prefer better to worse.

Thanks again for the thoughts. I appreciate the other perspective.

KMRUNOUT

Your a class act KMRUNOUT. Well written. It aisn't easy responding on a keyboard. lol. :grin-square:

 

[Koop]

Your a class act KMRUNOUT. Well written. It aisn't easy responding on a keyboard. lol. :grin-square:

He's a damn good shot too.

Kerry, you probably don't remember me but I was the one with Dave E up at the poolhall in Woburn a few months back and I was also with Tony R in Vegas when he said hi.

Regards,
Koop

 

[KMRUNOUT]

He's a damn good shot too.

Kerry, you probably don't remember me but I was the one with Dave E up at the poolhall in Woburn a few months back and I was also with Tony R in Vegas when he said hi.

Regards,
Koop

Hmm...I know Catscradle on here has descibed you to me more than once, and I know I would know you if I saw you. I do remember seeing Dave E in Marc's room in Woburn. Were you about to play with him on the back table?

In Vegas, do you mean just last week?....man, I was blanking out on which Tony R you could mean, but it just came to me. At that moment he said hi I was scrambling to get in to a match and very distracted. Didn't you play on a team with him at one point? Maybe with Steve too?

I'm sure we've met before. Maybe we will see each other at Country Club?

How did you like Vegas?

See ya soon!

KMRUNOUT

 

[jrt30004]

I doubt you will get any responses from anyone in the upper level of the APA managment. I myself would love to hear a response from that operator down in the Shrevport LA area who had Gary Abood in his league LOL. But I certainly ain't gonna hold my breath.

When I moved away from Maine in the early 90's there was not much going on up here for leagues other than the VNEA. When I moved back a few years ago the APA is now state wide run by 1 operator whos making a fortune off his setup. What dumbfounds me is that with 250 teams playing 2 nights a week if you asked 95% of the players involved can you tell me what the Johnson City tournament was is they can't even answer that. Let along 95% of them have never played a game of "real" 9ball without counting balls as points.

The APA sells entertainment not actual "POOL".

i wish i knew how to put something like a smiley face rolling around the floor here. a response from apa upper management hahahahahahaha. i can't even get a straight answer as to how my handicap is figured out. i have posted a few times in defense of the apa because where i play we play on either 8 or 9 foot gold crowns with simonis cloth and aramith(sp?) balls. we have a few sl7's in 8ball and sl9's in nine ball that are actually break and run players and compete in some of the regional ameteur tourneys so there is good equipment and competition, however i have heard that all bets are off when you go to vegas and this thread is about what you can expect. it's sad, the largest amature league and they can't get thier s*it together on thier biggest stage. although sadly this seams to be the case more and more in all of pool, with the recent annoucement that the bca is considering doing away with the hall of fame induction ceremony and a few other things to save money. i love how we are so often told that gambling will bring down the sport and yet some really good players can't make enough money in tournaments to live and cover expenses and then our governing bodies turn arond and base every decision on how they can pocket more coin. WTF?

 

[Koop]

Hmm...I know Catscradle on here has descibed you to me more than once, and I know I would know you if I saw you. I do remember seeing Dave E in Marc's room in Woburn. Were you about to play with him on the back table?

In Vegas, do you mean just last week?....man, I was blanking out on which Tony R you could mean, but it just came to me. At that moment he said hi I was scrambling to get in to a match and very distracted. Didn't you play on a team with him at one point? Maybe with Steve too?

I'm sure we've met before. Maybe we will see each other at Country Club?

How did you like Vegas?

See ya soon!

KMRUNOUT

Yeah, that was me with Dave. I was getting a table from him and he wanted to show the ones he did at Silver Cue. Also, that was actually me with Tony in Vegas because you definitely seemed hurried.

I'll make sure to introduce myself at CC one of these nights.

Regards,
Koop

 

[mongoose-]

i wish i knew how to put something like a smiley face rolling around the floor here. a response from apa upper management hahahahahahaha. i can't even get a straight answer as to how my handicap is figured out. i have posted a few times in defense of the apa because where i play we play on either 8 or 9 foot gold crowns with simonis cloth and aramith(sp?) balls. we have a few sl7's in 8ball and sl9's in nine ball that are actually break and run players and compete in some of the regional ameteur tourneys so there is good equipment and competition, however i have heard that all bets are off when you go to vegas and this thread is about what you can expect. it's sad, the largest amature league and they can't get thier s*it together on thier biggest stage. although sadly this seams to be the case more and more in all of pool, with the recent annoucement that the bca is considering doing away with the hall of fame induction ceremony and a few other things to save money. i love how we are so often told that gambling will bring down the sport and yet some really good players can't make enough money in tournaments to live and cover expenses and then our governing bodies turn arond and base every decision on how they can pocket more coin. WTF?

LOL you know it buddy. I won't even get going on the subject as I pi***d off a couple people on here yesterday by my negativity in a few posts on the APA. And that isn't what I come here for is get negative posts going. As for the rolling on floor sign. When you post a quote or reply there is a box of faces to your right. Select the [More] button. It will pull up another list of icons. You should find it in there. Good luck.

 

[Greg/Diamond]

Thanks KMRUNOUT

I really enjoyed you're post!

Just wanted to say a couple things??. First off Diamond makes coin operated tables for ALL leagues....Right now we are using our tables in approximately 60 tournaments per year (including BCBPL and TAP nationals) ....Many are APA events, however we did lose the National Championship when Mark Griffin bought the BCA Pool League...That was a sad day for Diamond and I have to admit I didn't see it coming....I thought that the APA viewed the Valley League just as much their competitor as the BCA League and since Larry and Terry were players themselves that playing conditions for their players would be more important than allowing Mark close to their players and dealers..I do understand their feelings, however enough time has gone by to show them they need not fear Diamond and Mark's ownership. Diamond wants to work with all leagues and hope someday to get another chance at the APA Nationals.


I really have to wonder why it's taken this long for a post like this...I for one feel the cue ball could be considered one of the most important parts of pool in general...After all it's used on every shot!! Diamond would have never made a coin operated pool table if we hadn?t first figured a way to use a regular cue ball?Pool was meant to be played with a regular cueball and now that the technology is here there?s no excuse to do otherwise.

On at least 2 different occasions we?ve tried to work with Valley and Brunswick to make the technology to use a regular cueball available to them, but it didn't seem to be that important to them. And it wasn?t anything to do with us charging to much for the technology??. Instead they tried to improve the magnetic cueball...It seems ridiculous to me...What do they want to do, sell replacement cueballs or replacement tables? Fixing the magnetic cueball is like killing the "golden goose"....Of course the cueball is a very important part in a table, but I feel there are other things that need to be corrected to make pool a viable sport...The old tables need replaced!! We are coming out with a new "No Excuse Policy" that will IMO allow any league location to have a Diamond Table, Light, Balls and Cloth for $4 or less per day and they will then own the equipment after 5 years?This will get things rolling and they can pay the table off early if they wish?I know it?s a tough decision to spend $4500 on a new table when the one they have is paid for, but if conditions are important enough and players show they care,,$4 per day IS affordable IMO.

IMO the league players have all the power...They show up, put quarters in the machines and sometimes buy food and drink...They are the customers...And how can the room owner tell you he can't afford $4 a day to give you better playing conditions.....We Will See.. ..Greg/Diamond

 

[cardiac kid]

Greg,

As always a well thought out informative post. We were discussing the cue ball dilemma at the ACS event. One of the Valley guys was asked the question about using the Diamond technology to improve play. Why pay for the technology? The new Aramith cue ball works just fine. That sounded like a business man, not a player. The new ball is better. Just not as good as using the cue ball that comes with the object ball set.

Your tables are too good! They have raised the level of play too much. I'm not sure thats a good thing. Lets see; cue ball doesn't j-hook, object balls roll straight and true, rail rubbers work just like a real pool table, no shadows on the playing area, twenty eight levelers for the slate, Simonis cloth. Yep, too good:thumbup: . Only downside is having to go to an event with Valleys and face all the above problems. Thanks again from at least one player!

Lyn

 

[chris_williams]

I really enjoyed you're post!

Just wanted to say a couple things??. First off Diamond makes coin operated tables for ALL leagues....Right now we are using our tables in approximately 60 tournaments per year (including BCBPL and TAP nationals) ....Many are APA events, however we did lose the National Championship when Mark Griffin bought the BCA Pool League...That was a sad day for Diamond and I have to admit I didn't see it coming....I thought that the APA viewed the Valley League just as much their competitor as the BCA League and since Larry and Terry were players themselves that playing conditions for their players would be more important than allowing Mark close to their players and dealers..I do understand their feelings, however enough time has gone by to show them they need not fear Diamond and Mark's ownership. Diamond wants to work with all leagues and hope someday to get another chance at the APA Nationals.


I really have to wonder why it's taken this long for a post like this...I for one feel the cue ball could be considered one of the most important parts of pool in general...After all it's used on every shot!! Diamond would have never made a coin operated pool table if we hadn?t first figured a way to use a regular cue ball?Pool was meant to be played with a regular cueball and now that the technology is here there?s no excuse to do otherwise.

On at least 2 different occasions we?ve tried to work with Valley and Brunswick to make the technology to use a regular cueball available to them, but it didn't seem to be that important to them. And it wasn?t anything to do with us charging to much for the technology??. Instead they tried to improve the magnetic cueball...It seems ridiculous to me...What do they want to do, sell replacement cueballs or replacement tables? Fixing the magnetic cueball is like killing the "golden goose"....Of course the cueball is a very important part in a table, but I feel there are other things that need to be corrected to make pool a viable sport...The old tables need replaced!! We are coming out with a new "No Excuse Policy" that will IMO allow any league location to have a Diamond Table, Light, Balls and Cloth for $4 or less per day and they will then own the equipment after 5 years?This will get things rolling and they can pay the table off early if they wish?I know it?s a tough decision to spend $4500 on a new table when the one they have is paid for, but if conditions are important enough and players show they care,,$4 per day IS affordable IMO.

IMO the league players have all the power...They show up, put quarters in the machines and sometimes buy food and drink...They are the customers...And how can the room owner tell you he can't afford $4 a day to give you better playing conditions.....We Will See.. ..Greg/Diamond

Ive been buying tables for over 2 years from diamond using this program and is working very well. I would drive past 10 bars with Valleys to play on a Diamond and so would most of the players in our area.
By the way Greg. How old is that picture in your avatar?

 

[Greg/Diamond]

Ive been buying tables for over 2 years from diamond using this program and is working very well. I would drive past 10 bars with Valleys to play on a Diamond and so would most of the players in our area.
By the way Greg. How old is that picture in your avatar?

That picture was taken in 1978 at a Tournament in Tampa Fla....I remember gambling or playing $50 nineball with Bill Stigel getting the 5 ball. I broke even with him and then a week or so later I found myself playing him even in the finals of the Minnisota Fats Easter Seal Bash in Michigan... Fact is I won that tournament and got alot of ribbing from him about getting the 5 ball earlier...I may as well add that I was fortunate enough to beat Jimmy Rempe in the simi finals of that same tournament...I don't know the exact date, but the year was 1978 and I know it was Rempe's birthday, because he jokenly let me know before we lagged for the break...I'm glad to get the chance to tell this story as it's the only fairly large tournament I ever ever won and I get to keep that memory forever..even though it won't buy a cup of coffee......I need to get a copy of the then Billiard News magazine for my grandkids..Gotta call Conrad Burkman...ha.....Greg/Diamond

 

[softshot]

I think that anyone who's game is so fragile that to tamper with any one condition throws their game wayyy off.. has issues with their fundamentals.

Pool is a game of adjustments.... adjust the angle, adjust the speed... adjust the spin..

adapting from a heavy ball to a equal weight ball is something EVERY decent player should have learned long ago..

here is a hint... when using a known heavy cueball.. you shift centerball roughly a half tip down... because the ball follows easier and draws harder..

in the 1 in 1000 chance you really need big draw on a box you increase speed..

the ability to adjust speed and tip placement in order to adapt to the current conditions is what separates the men from the boys..

perhaps it is your game that needs work .. not the conditions of the tournament you chose to play in..

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I think that anyone who's game is so fragile that to tamper with any one condition throws their game wayyy off.. has issues with their fundamentals.

Pool is a game of adjustments.... adjust the angle, adjust the speed... adjust the spin..

adapting from a heavy ball to a equal weight ball is something EVERY decent player should have learned long ago..

here is a hint... when using a known heavy cueball.. you shift centerball roughly a half tip down... because the ball follows easier and draws harder..

in the 1 in 1000 chance you really need big draw on a box you increase speed..

the ability to adjust speed and tip placement in order to adapt to the current conditions is what separates the men from the boys..

perhaps it is your game that needs work .. not the conditions of the tournament you chose to play in..

Softshot,

Explain to me how you make the heavy ball move along the tangent line? Quantity of draw is not the issue. If that is what you believe the problem is with the heavy ball, then with all due respect, your opinion is not very valuable. I can get all the draw I need with the heavy ball. However, the way it reacts off the rails and the line it takes after contact is just WRONG. I can adapt to it, but why should I? Why waste valuable skill and playing time to adjust to an error in engineering by the people who made the table?

You must not have read this thread through, or you would have seen several posts distinguishing between things like "adjust the angle, adjust the speed... adjust the spin" and changing the fundamental physics of the game. Let me ask you a question. Lets say the upcoming US Open fills up with 256 people. If you asked 256 of them if they would mind swapping in a heavy bar ball for their match, how many do you think would be ok with it? My guess is none (unless you happen to have someone in the field that really puts the bang in banger, and is a heavy ball specialist).

You can adjust to sleeping with the ugly girl. This post is about the concept that I prefer the hot one. Now if someone is going to provide me with a girl, and they have the power to provide either a hot one or an ugly one, why in the world would they not give me the hot one? (I apologize in advance if anyone takes that in a sexist way...it is just meant as an analogy).

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I really enjoyed you're post!

Just wanted to say a couple things??. First off Diamond makes coin operated tables for ALL leagues....Right now we are using our tables in approximately 60 tournaments per year (including BCBPL and TAP nationals) ....Many are APA events, however we did lose the National Championship when Mark Griffin bought the BCA Pool League...That was a sad day for Diamond and I have to admit I didn't see it coming....I thought that the APA viewed the Valley League just as much their competitor as the BCA League and since Larry and Terry were players themselves that playing conditions for their players would be more important than allowing Mark close to their players and dealers..I do understand their feelings, however enough time has gone by to show them they need not fear Diamond and Mark's ownership. Diamond wants to work with all leagues and hope someday to get another chance at the APA Nationals.


I really have to wonder why it's taken this long for a post like this...I for one feel the cue ball could be considered one of the most important parts of pool in general...After all it's used on every shot!! Diamond would have never made a coin operated pool table if we hadn?t first figured a way to use a regular cue ball?Pool was meant to be played with a regular cueball and now that the technology is here there?s no excuse to do otherwise.

On at least 2 different occasions we?ve tried to work with Valley and Brunswick to make the technology to use a regular cueball available to them, but it didn't seem to be that important to them. And it wasn?t anything to do with us charging to much for the technology??. Instead they tried to improve the magnetic cueball...It seems ridiculous to me...What do they want to do, sell replacement cueballs or replacement tables? Fixing the magnetic cueball is like killing the "golden goose"....Of course the cueball is a very important part in a table, but I feel there are other things that need to be corrected to make pool a viable sport...The old tables need replaced!! We are coming out with a new "No Excuse Policy" that will IMO allow any league location to have a Diamond Table, Light, Balls and Cloth for $4 or less per day and they will then own the equipment after 5 years?This will get things rolling and they can pay the table off early if they wish?I know it?s a tough decision to spend $4500 on a new table when the one they have is paid for, but if conditions are important enough and players show they care,,$4 per day IS affordable IMO.

IMO the league players have all the power...They show up, put quarters in the machines and sometimes buy food and drink...They are the customers...And how can the room owner tell you he can't afford $4 a day to give you better playing conditions.....We Will See.. ..Greg/Diamond

Greg,

I really appreciate your contribution here. It would be an awesome day for pool if all the bar boxes out there suddenly turned into Diamonds. I think the 7' Diamonds at Valley Forge are the best bar tables I've ever played on. Though to be honest, I'd be satisfied with just using the correct cue ball on a piece of crap table.

Thanks again,

KMRUNOUT

 

[softshot]

Softshot,

Explain to me how you make the heavy ball move along the tangent line? Quantity of draw is not the issue. If that is what you believe the problem is with the heavy ball, then with all due respect, your opinion is not very valuable. I can get all the draw I need with the heavy ball. However, the way it reacts off the rails and the line it takes after contact is just WRONG. I can adapt to it, but why should I? Why waste valuable skill and playing time to adjust to an error in engineering by the people who made the table?

You must not have read this thread through, or you would have seen several posts distinguishing between things like "adjust the angle, adjust the speed... adjust the spin" and changing the fundamental physics of the game. Let me ask you a question. Lets say the upcoming US Open fills up with 256 people. If you asked 256 of them if they would mind swapping in a heavy bar ball for their match, how many do you think would be ok with it? My guess is none (unless you happen to have someone in the field that really puts the bang in banger, and is a heavy ball specialist).

You can adjust to sleeping with the ugly girl. This post is about the concept that I prefer the hot one. Now if someone is going to provide me with a girl, and they have the power to provide either a hot one or an ugly one, why in the world would they not give me the hot one? (I apologize in advance if anyone takes that in a sexist way...it is just meant as an analogy).

KMRUNOUT

WOW .. ok here it is black and white...

YOU entered THEIR tourney... YOU were unable to adjust to the conditions and you got BEAT!!!!

how is that their fault?

if you want to live in a bubble and only play on your table with your balls and only play those you deemed worthy... it would be pretty weak


we play on the table WE are on... if I can adjust and you cannot... I deserve to win...

if you have the ability to make every single pool table on planet earth the same... including perfect climate control... so that the balls roll the same every time.. I will support you..

but you can't..

so you adapt to the table that you are on... or ... you LOSE...

simple as that...

 

[Johnnyt]

I never here the winners coplaining about the QB. Johnnyt

 

[Bigkahuna]

One year I played at the nationals there were diamonds and they were great. I never did understand the APA decision about not using diamonds due to Greg Sullivan owning the BCA league. I mean doesn't Valley own the Valley League? Does this mean the APA has to make there own tables? God I hope not they will probably hire Cuetech to do it!:banghead: :smash: